Dakota Accees Pipeline Protests: woman's arm blown off by grenade

[phill4paul]

7 football fields in ND is nothing, and the land is being restored, farmer compensated. My farmer cousin owns over 4000 acres of farm land.

So the goal of interaction with each other is do what the fuck you want, just compensate the other fella for it if you fuck up?

 

[Danke]

So the goal of interaction with each other is do what the fuck you want, just compensate the other fella for it if you fuck up?

I'm pretty sure the farmers had contracts to place pipelines on and/or underneath their land, with many clauses.

 

[angelatc]

You can claim that it is the most efficient, least expensive solution, but you refuse to understand that it is not the safest. What the hell are you talking about? Oil destroyed 7 football fields worth of farmland. It proves you wrong and that these breaks/spills happen. If it had happened in any water supply then it would have been worse. What was your point?

And do NOT lecture me on libertarianism. Oh, no girl, just do not. Eminent domain is not a part of libertarianism. Government regulation and specialization, Corp of Engineers, the fact that the Government owns the property the camp is set up on in the first place, none of this is libertarian.

I already told you I agree with you on the eminent domain. I think that all libertarians do. But I will stick to my contention that pipeline is the safest method of transporting it.

I never said spill and breaks never happen, so....

The farmland is being cleaned up, the property owner is being made whole, and there's pie. That's so libertarian awesome I can barely stand it.

 

[angelatc]

I'm pretty sure the farmers had contracts to place pipelines on and/or underneath their land, with many clauses.

This. They usually only resort to imminent domain when the land owner refuses their offers. Generally, it's called a pipeline easement lease and it generates income to the property owner.

 

[phill4paul]

I'm pretty sure the farmers had contracts to place pipelines on and/or underneath their land, with many clauses.

I'm sure they did. In ND. Gold rush, baby. The contracts in Iowa farmlands come down to fuck you or leave. What don't you understand about eminent domain? This ain't just about down river/aquifer injuns. Where is it you live again?

 

[angelatc]

This ain't just about down river/aquifer injuns.

According to the title of the thread, it's about the Dakota pipeline where the woman's arm was blown off, not the eminent domain issues in Iowa. That's kind of a moving goalpost, I think.

 

[phill4paul]

I already told you I agree with you on the eminent domain. I think that all libertarians do. But I will stick to my contention that pipeline is the safest method of transporting it.

I never said spill and breaks never happen, so....

The farmland is being cleaned up, the property owner is being made whole, and there's pie. That's so libertarian awesome I can barely stand it.

Well, I suppose that's something. Honestly, in this case, the farmer granted rights. When he said he looked over and say Jed Clampets "bubbling cude" he knew he struck pay dirt.

What I'm trying to convey is that an oil spill causes economic/social harm if it gets into the water supply. It's not relegated to a land spill. Can you understand this? If pipelines were rigged up with sensors that automatically throttled the flow if a leak was detected then that would be one thing. But the pipelines don't. It's not like it would be hard. It just costs money.

 

[phill4paul]

According to the title of the thread, it's about the Dakota pipeline where the woman's arm was blown off, not the eminent domain issues in Iowa. That's kind of a moving goalpost, I think.

There was some posts between the OP and your latest. Reading them to catch up might enlighten you a bit.

 

[angelatc]

Well, I suppose that's something. Honestly, in this case, the farmer granted rights. When he said he looked over and say Jed Clampets "bubbling cude" he knew he struck pay dirt.

What I'm trying to convey is that an oil spill causes economic/social harm if it gets into the water supply. It's not relegated to a land spill. Can you understand this? If pipelines were rigged up with sensors that automatically throttled the flow if a leak was detected then that would be one thing. But the pipelines don't. It's not like it would be hard. It just costs money.

There are already 10 pipes there that are not damaging the water. The federal guidelines call for extra diligence (for lack of the better word) when the water table is in play. Double walled pipes or something. The oil company claims they are also installing the most technologically advanced monitoring systems available. The oil company is moving the reservation's wellheads in an attempt to placate them.

At this point I believe that this isn't about anything other than professional anti-oil people having another tantrum, and there it literally no way any deal can be reached.

Libertarianism isn't stopping people from doing stuff because something bad might happen. It's ensuring that victims are compensated when property is damaged.

 

[oyarde]

7 football fields in ND is nothing, and the land is being restored, farmer compensated. My farmer cousin owns over 4000 acres of farm land.

See if he would like to play poker with me .

 

[Weston White]

When injustice aligns with cruelty, and heavy weaponry is involved, the results can be shameful and bloody.

Can't argue with that logic.

They drenched protesters with water cannons on a frigid night, with temperatures in the 20s. According to protesters and news accounts, the officers also fired rubber bullets, pepper spray, percussion grenades and tear gas. More than 160 people were reportedly injured, with one protester’s arm damaged so badly she might lose it.

This is describing what can only be considered acts of torture. And mere trespassing does not warrant the use of military/SWAT tactics. These willfully participating LEO agencies need to have their damned asses sued off--and FedGov needs to very seriously look at filing civil rights violations being committed against majority Indians by these agencies and local governments. This is a completely inappropriate response.

“We’re just not going to let people or protesters in large groups come in and threaten officers, that’s not happening,” said the Morton County sheriff, Kyle Kirchmeier.

Question: WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU EVEN THERE DUMB ASS? YOU ARE NOT EVEN ENFORCING A COURT ORDER.

The Army Corps of Engineers has called for more study and input from the tribe before it decides on whether to grant a permit. The pipeline company has asked a federal judge to give it the right to proceed with its plan to lay pipe under the river. There is no firm timeline for either decision.

Yup, this about sums it up for me. Utterly dumbfounded!

Barring that, resolute protesters, a heavily militarized police force unwilling to budge, a company that refuses to consider an alternate route and an onrushing Great Plains winter — how can this possibly end well?

And circle gets the square!


SRC: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/o...t&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article

 

[dannno]

Can't argue with that logic.



This is describing what can only be considered acts of torture. And mere trespassing does not warrant the use of military/SWAT tactics. These willfully participating LEO agencies need to have their damned asses sued off--and FedGov needs to very seriously look at filing civil rights violations being committed against majority Indians by these agencies and local governments. This is a completely inappropriate response.



Question: WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU EVEN THERE DUMB ASS? YOU ARE NOT EVEN ENFORCING A COURT ORDER.



Yup, this about sums it up for me. Utterly dumbfounded!



And circle gets the square!


SRC: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/o...t&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article

lol...nyt..

 

[phill4paul]

There are already 10 pipes there that are not damaging the water. The federal guidelines call for extra diligence (for lack of the better word) when the water table is in play. Double walled pipes or something. The oil company claims they are also installing the most technologically advanced monitoring systems available. The oil company is moving the reservation's wellheads in an attempt to placate them.

At this point I believe that this isn't about anything other than professional anti-oil people having another tantrum, and there it literally no way any deal can be reached.

Libertarianism isn't stopping people from doing stuff because something bad might happen. It's ensuring that victims are compensated when property is damaged.

Federal guidelines....

Oil company claims...

Are you still arguing liberarianism with me?

 

[PRB]

And why are people from New York there?

why not? if you believe in something, you'll drive or fly across the country to join people you support.

 

[Weston White]

So what exactly are these people protesting?

It seems the Sioux had largely been left out of the process for planning and building this structure, as well wavers were conveniently granted to the pipeline company so that federal regulations may be easily bypassed--with their underlying motivation being the potential contamination of their lands, source drinking water, destruction of their remaining sacred lands, denial of their basic civil rights and violation of agreed upon federal compacts.

 

[dannno]

why not? if you believe in something, you'll drive or fly across the country to join people you support.

Whoa, dude, you're bleeding pretty bad there.. need some medical attention??

 

[dannno]

It seems the Sioux had largely been left out of the process for planning and building this structure, as well wavers were conveniently granted to the pipeline company so that federal regulations may be easily bypassed--with their underlying motivation being the potential contamination of their lands, source drinking water, destruction of their remaining sacred lands, denial of their basic civil rights and violation of agreed upon federal compacts.

That's one side of the argument.. Angelatc posted a pretty good article outlining the other side of the argument.

 

[phill4paul]

That's one side of the argument.. Angelatc posted a pretty good article outlining the other side of the argument.

What side is that?

 

[Weston White]

Now that the GOP in in charge, the pushback against cheap and efficient energy will be even stronger. As usual, I side with the capitalists.

If you are using government officials and law enforcement to achieve your ends, to provide you with special exemptions, you are not a capitalist, you are nothing more than a plutocrat or robber baron. And when you continue to enforce your will upon a citizenry that openly contests your agenda you are among the wretched of the Earth.

 

[dannno]

What side is that?

The side where they weren't left out but chose to not attend the meetings where they would have had the opportunity to air their grievances. Reports of vandalism and theft of private property and gunfire from the protesters. The grenade that blew the girl's arm off turning out to be an device being built by the protesters. About how it isn't going through any of their land, and won't be risking contamination of watersheds, etc..

Of course I have no idea which side is correct, or if there are portions of both sides that are correct, I have no way of knowing that. I do know there are certainly profit motivations by the corporation building the pipeline, but there are also leftist motivations to oppose the oil industry at every turn, and virtue signalling... ahhh virtue signalling.