Cruz & Lee vs Rand and Krauthammer over how Harry Reid got Senate nominees

[RandallFan]

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[TD="class: defaultpage textBody"] Sen. Lee: It's 'crazy,' 'nonsense' to think Reid wouldn't have pushed Obama nominees through confirmation - December 16, 2014

http://www.lauraingraham.com/pg/jsp...tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD0yMDM3Mw==


http://www.mofopolitics.com/2014/12/16/rand-paul-vs-ted-cruz-on-surgeon-general-confirmation/

Rand Paul echoed the establishment POV, while Cruz dismissed it as “silly”…

Rand: We tried to prevent [Murthy’s confirmation] from happening, and because of the last couple of days, things got disturbed and we weren’t able to prevent him.
…
Cruz: That argument is just silliness. It’s being pushed by Harry Reid, and some Republicans are repeating it.
​

As the Official Arbiter of Conservatism, there is no evidence to suggest Cruz’s procedural maneuvering over the weekend had any bearing whatsoever on Murthy’s confirmation.

Mike Lee: Charles Krauthammer Does Not Have A Crystal Ball


http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/16/mike-lee-charles-krauthammer-does-not-have-a-crystal-ball/


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[TaftFan]

Rand is out of touch. Listening too much too McConnell. And that is how people are viewing him.

 

[Rudeman]

Well to be fair what did Cruz and Lee accomplish with their tactic?

 

[RandallFan]

Well to be fair what did Cruz and Lee accomplish with their tactic?

Got Democrats to side with Obama on an unpopular issue.

Rand didn't have to say a word. He voted the right way on it. He should stay out of it. There's nothing to gain.

Put some RINOs at risk of a primary challenge in 2016.

I haven't seen anyone except Erick Erickson explain if this did or didn't help Harry Reid.

It seems they assumed Reid was going to be nice if they caved to him for the 1000th time.

 

[Vanguard101]

Rand basically backed down and said he wouldn't fight it. That looks bad on him. It's also hypocritical for us to defend him. Honestly, the people bashing Cruz atm are the same people that defend Rand when he's bashed by other libertarians.

 

[Krugminator2]

Rand basically backed down and said he wouldn't fight it. That looks bad on him. It's also hypocritical for us to defend him. Honestly, the people bashing Cruz atm are the same people that defend Rand when he's bashed by other libertarians.

I fall into the category of bashing Cruz and defending Rand. For one thing, Rand takes very unpopular stands. When has Cruz ever taken an unpopular stand with the base on anything? You could find dozens of issues where Rand has taken a bold stand. And Rand did say he would fight this through the appropriations process, which actually has a chance. He voted for the point of order. And why should he take the lead on every issue, especially when is is a show vote?

And most importantly there have been numerous clues that indicate Cruz leans strongly in the neoconservative direction on foreign policy. Just one more example is Cruz' position on Cuba. It is horrible. He should know better. Rand has taken a very unpopular and indisputable correct stand on this. Anyone who supports the embargo is a pandering idiot or an anti-free trade socialist.

 

[specsaregood]

Rand basically backed down and said he wouldn't fight it. That looks bad on him. It's also hypocritical for us to defend him. Honestly, the people bashing Cruz atm are the same people that defend Rand when he's bashed by other libertarians.

Dunno, I'll trust Randals knowledge of parliamentary procedure and the senate rules and process over Cruz any day of the week. As Randal has already surprised and stymied the establishment a number of times by using the process to his own advantage, which has also elicited a number of anonymous quotes pointing out the fact that his knowledge of the "arcane senate rules" to be that of a very experienced senator.

So if Randal is saying that this was a mistake by Cruz; I'd tend to think he knows what he is talking about.

Hell, Cruz wasn't even able to pull off a REAL filibuster, it was a fake one just for show. Whereas Randal was able to pull off a REAL one, recognizing the limited/unexpected opportunity he had to actually pull one off and seizing it.

 

[Rudeman]

Got Democrats to side with Obama on an unpopular issue.

Rand didn't have to say a word. He voted the right way on it. He should stay out of it. There's nothing to gain.

Put some RINOs at risk of a primary challenge in 2016.

I haven't seen anyone except Erick Erickson explain if this did or didn't help Harry Reid.

It seems they assumed Reid was going to be nice if they caved to him for the 1000th time.

Eh to me Cruz seems to go more for the spectacle without any strategic sense. The Republicans control the Senate the next 2 years, couldn't they have forced something similar in the future?

 

[rich34]

Eh to me Cruz seems to go more for the spectacle without any strategic sense. The Republicans control the Senate the next 2 years, couldn't they have forced something similar in the future?

Seems to me the media/establishment is trying to hit Rand on two fronts. On one hand the bigger issue being Cuba by framing him in the same mold as Obama/Carter which hurts him with the mainstream republican. Then using surprisingly Mike Lee, not so surprising Ted Cruz to try and portray him as an establishment hack that has been corrupted by McConnell in an effort to not only hurt with the grassroots support, but to also hurt him with the mainstream republican support. This all being done at the same time, coincidentally all around the same time as Jeb Bush announces he's forming an exploratory committee. There's no way you can say Bush's announcement timing was centered around the soon to be establishment's attack of Rand. Don't be surprised if Rand takes a hit in the new polls coming out in the following weeks, while Bush gets a big bounce all while doing nothing to earn such a move. It's clear the establishment is behind the Bush and all this timing imo just shows how much coordination they have with their preferred pick.

I really hope this gives Rand some insight into how the establishment is going to fight him. They're going to use his eagerness to take on every fight against him. IMO Rand should be very careful of any knew issue that comes up in the future that can be spun as a liberal position because they're just going to wait for him to throw a punch already knowing what counter punch they're going to throw back at him.

Bush will benefit in the short term for this all for doing nothing. It's like as soon as Rand hit him over his education policy/stance they come back at him with a furry of combos to cover up the Bush and his unpopular policies. I hope Rand's people read these boards and take mental notes of some of the ideas or thoughts on how they're going to be attacked and prepare for it. Maybe they can come up with situations of their own to counter this nonsense in the future.

 

[RabbitMan]

I hope Rand's people read these boards and take mental notes of some of the ideas or thoughts on how they're going to be attacked and prepare for it. Maybe they can come up with situations of their own to counter this nonsense in the future.

I highly doubt that Rand's interns and future campaign staff have any time to read fan forums like this. That being said, I enjoy reading this type of strategy talk!