Cruz, Huckabee, Jindal Attend Insane Anti-Gay Rally

[Dr. Dog]

If salvation is only found in the Roman Catholic church, and not only am I not in it, but believe it is a Satanic institution, doesn't that mean I'm not saved?

Catholics believe that if you have a valid baptism you are a member of the Church. If you decide to sever your communion with the Church you put yourself outside of the possibility of salvation. That is the Catholic understanding.

EDIT:

From the Catechism:

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: “Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water and in the word.”

1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: “Therefore... we are members one of another.”72 Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”73


http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...-catholic-church/epub/OEBPS/26-chapter9.xhtml

And perhaps most importantly:

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: “For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.”81 “Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn.”82

Anyway, I'm not a member of the Roman Catholic Church, so I'm not interested in defending their theology (which has many errors, though not as many as Protestants). I was just correcting an obviously false statement by erowe1.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Catholics believe that if you have a valid baptism you are a member of the Church. If you decide to sever your communion with the Church you put yourself outside of the possibility of salvation. That is the Catholic understanding.

Anyway, I'm not a member of the Roman Catholic Church, so I'm not interested in defending their theology (which has many errors, though not as many as Protestants). I was just correcting an obviously false statement by erowe1.

No. It must be a baptism by a validly ordained priest, not just any baptism, the same with the Lord's Supper. Don't be deceived. If you are not in the Roman Catholic Church (and actually contend that it is Satanic, which it is) you are condemned according to them.

 

[Dr. Dog]

No. It must be a baptism by a validly ordained priest, not just any baptism, the same with the Lord's Supper. Don't be deceived. If you are not in the Roman Catholic Church (and actually contend that it is Satanic, which it is) you are condemned according to them.

Actually that isn't true. The Catholic Church does not require a priest to perform a baptism.

From the Catechism (a document you claim to be familiar with):

V. Who Can Baptize?

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptise, by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...-catholic-church/epub/OEBPS/26-chapter9.xhtml

That is why converts to Catholicism who come from another Christian faith usually do not have to be rebaptized.


For someone who criticises the Catholic Church so often you really do not not much about their beliefs.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Many people have been falsely lead to believe that Vatican II revoked the anathemas of the Council of Trent, nothing could be further from the truth. An anathema on an infallible statement can not be revoked, and is always binding; otherwise the statement is not infallible.Vatican II referred to Trent dozens of times, quoted Trent's proclamations as authority, and reaffirmed Trent on every hand. As a matter of fact, at the opening of the Second Vatican Council, Pope John XXIII stated, "I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent."

I know he said that but you can't actually reconcile the two.

Catholics believe that if you have a valid baptism you are a member of the Church. If you decide to sever your communion with the Church you put yourself outside of the possibility of salvation. That is the Catholic understanding.

EDIT:

From the Catechism:



Anyway, I'm not a member of the Roman Catholic Church, so I'm not interested in defending their theology (which has many errors, though not as many as Protestants). I was just correcting an obviously false statement by erowe1.

Just curious, what church are you a member of?

The Council of Trent says we are anathemized for affirming faith alone. This means we are unsaved, unless you want to make the original intent of words meaningless.

 

[Dr. Dog]

I know he said that but you can't actually reconcile the two.

Well, you can.

Just curious, what church are you a member of?

The only one there is. The one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. It's commonly referred to as the Eastern Orthodox Church these days.

The Council of Trent says we are anathemized for affirming faith alone. This means we are unsaved, unless you want to make the original intent of words meaningless.

Anathematised does not mean unsaved. I don't think you know what the original intent of the word means. You might want to look that up, preferably from a Catholic source to get the real meaning.

 

[Christian Liberty]

The only one there is. The one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. It's commonly referred to as the Eastern Orthodox Church these days.

You should become a Biblical Presbyterian


"Elder is identical with bishop; and before the urging of the devil gave rise to factionalism in religion, so much that it was being said among the people, 'I am of Paul, I of Apollos, I of Cephas', the churches were governed by a joint council of elders. After it was... decreed throughout the world that one chosen from among the presbyters should be placed over the others."

Jerome

Anathematised does not mean unsaved. I don't think you know what the original intent of the word means. You might want to look that up, preferably from a Catholic source to get the real meaning.

Yeah, because as Rome lit Bible-believing Christians on fire they OBVIOUSLY thought that they were real Christians...

 

[Christian Liberty]

I was actually watching Maddow for a few minutes earlier this week and saw her cover this. And she covered it a lot better than Cenk did in the video above. The guy is an absolute lunatic who advocates executing gay people, and I was surprised any presidential candidates would meet with this scum. I hesitate to post any Maddow videos and am not a fan of her by any means, but this video is pretty interesting to watch.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBDbGyv6SIQ

Homosexuality should be punishable by death. There, I said it.

Now, what are you going to do about it?

 

[Dr. Dog]

You should become a Biblical Presbyterian

I'll pass.

Yeah, because as Rome lit Bible-believing Christians on fire they OBVIOUSLY thought that they were real Christians...

1) The Catholic Church never burned anyone. The burning of heretics was a civil punishment that was conducted by the authorities of whatever government was in power at that particular place. The Church authorities might be tasked with investigating if someone was, indeed, a heretic, but it did not carry out the punishments.

2) Aren't you a theonomist? If so, don't you believe that heresy is a capital crime?

Homosexuality should be punishable by death. There, I said it.

What about heresy?

 

[Christian Liberty]

The burning of heretics was a civil punishment that was conducted by the authorities of whatever government was in power at that particular place. The Church authorities might be tasked with investigating if someone was, indeed, a heretic, but it did not carry out the punishments.

Fair point, but didn't they agree with the punishments?

2) Aren't you a theonomist? If so, don't you believe that heresy is a capital crime?

Knowingly spreading it, yes. And note, my issue isn't some silly modernistic "That was cruel and harsh", blah blah blah. If the RCC really beleived that we were damnable heretics, their reaction makes total sense.

However, to kill somebody that you actually believed was a Christian spreading error within the pale of Christianity, that would be wrong and indefensible. It would be wrong for the magistrate to execute credobaptists for "heresy". Or for belief in consubstantiation. Or for having a congregational form of church government. Etc.

So, my main objection to Rome's actions in this regard is that they are wrong. But if they're going to anathemize us and support our executions, to also call us "Christians" at the same time is indeed bizarre.

[/COLOR]
What about heresy?

Yep. see above.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Actually that isn't true. The Catholic Church does not require a priest to perform a baptism.

From the Catechism (a document you claim to be familiar with):



That is why converts to Catholicism who come from another Christian faith usually do not have to be rebaptized.


For someone who criticises the Catholic Church so often you really do not not much about their beliefs.

Notice that in these three verses Jesus associated salvation with baptism, confession, and the Eucharist, respectively. Catholics recognize that these sacraments are administered through the Church. In fact, in the case of the latter two, a validly ordained priest is*necessary*for their administration, so the sacrament of ordination must also be associated with salvation. A primary role of the Catholic Church in conjunction with salvation is becoming quite clear.

Since Jesus established the Catholic Church as necessary for salvation, those who knowingly and willingly reject him or his Church cannot be saved.*

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

Furthermore, if "anathema" does not mean "unsaved" for Rome, that is just another way it is unbiblical, because when Paul used the word in Galatians 1, he meant unsaved.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

"Believing in Jesus" is not Christianity, especially with how Rome defines it. Believing in the propositions of the gospel is Christianity.

It sounds like you don't want to talk about it right now, but if you ever do, I will talk to you for as long as you want about the difference between the gospel and Roman Catholicism.

Of course believing in Christ makes one a Christian.... wtf is wrong with you

 

[Sola_Fide]

Of course believing in Christ makes one a Christian.... wtf is wrong with you

Who is Christ? What is belief? What do you belive for? There are all kinds of religions that "believe in Christ", but aren't biblical.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Of course believing in Christ makes one a Christian.... wtf is wrong with you

You have to believe that Christ alone saves you.

 

[PierzStyx]

Who cares? Christianity isn't defined by Wikipedia. It's defined by the Bible alone.

If the catholic Church isn't Christian, then neither are you. To quote Jesus:

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." -Matt. 7.

All Protestant denominations are merely the fruit of Catholicism, defined by their stance on Catholic beliefs really. So, if the Catholic church is false so are you because a corrupt tree could not bring forth the fruit of a righteous church. If the Catholic church isn't corrupt then you're an apostate following false doctrines theorized by false teachers. Either way you're wrong and not Christian.

 

[PierzStyx]

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

Furthermore, if "anathema" does not mean "unsaved" for Rome, that is just another way it is unbiblical, because when Paul used the word in Galatians 1, he meant unsaved.

Perhaps you don't know what "anathema" actually means? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anathema

 

[Sola_Fide]

Perhaps you don't know what "anathema" actually means? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anathema

What about the definition of that word do you think I disagree with?

 

[erowe1]

That is a lie.

No it isn't.

 

[erowe1]

1) The Catholic Church never burned anyone.

Yes they did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Hus#Execution

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Why was Ben Carson not invited to this rally???

Ben Carson: Being Gay Is A Choice Because Of Prison Sex [VIDEO]

 

[Foreigner]

Stupidest discussion I have seen on these forums.

You might wanna know that there already have been fought a war over this subject. It lasted for 30 years, and killed as many as ww2 in proportion to the population of Europe. German states lost 40% of its population.

Many of the arguments you people make here are also used by ISIS to justify their slaughter. Think about that.