Conversation with a Venezuelan.

[AngryCanadian]

If the Venezuelans have a shortage of toilet paper like Madison320's wife's relatives say, why would it be suspicious that you heard about it from more than one source? By definition, a shortage of toilet paper across a country (or major sections thereof) extends beyond a single family.

Yeah and the MSM claimed about Syria, Libya how they have shortage of everything etc is all propaganda and surprising everyone is believing it. Just like the Iraqi incubators story if you believe this then you might as well believe the incubators story.

 

[Mini-Me]

Yeah and the MSM claimed about Syria, Libya how they have shortage of everything etc is all propaganda and surprising everyone is believing it. Just like the Iraqi incubators story if you believe this then you might as well believe the incubators story.

You specifically said that social media corroborating a family's reports of shortages was suspicious (implying Madison320, his wife, or her family is lying), because they corroborated it. This implies that if there were ever real shortages, you'd expect only one person or family to notice or talk about it, which inherently violates the meaning of "shortages." I'm directly criticizing the fantastically poor logic you used in making that argument. Instead of making a sensible rebuttal or conceding that you overreached, you're totally dodging the criticism and reasserting a naked, circular conclusion that shortages could apparently never happen and anyone who says they are must be lying. That says a lot about your intellectual honesty and credibility, and it is now your responsibililty to make amends if you want me or anyone else reading this to ever take anything you say in good faith. Your ball, "Canadian."

 

[AngryCanadian]

You specifically said that social media corroborating a family's reports of shortages was suspicious (implying Madison320, his wife, or her family is lying), because they corroborated it. This implies that if there were ever real shortages, you'd expect only one person or family to notice or talk about it, which inherently violates the meaning of "shortages." I'm directly criticizing the fantastically poor logic you used in making that argument. Instead of making a sensible rebuttal or conceding that you overreached, you're totally dodging the criticism and reasserting a naked, circular conclusion that shortages could apparently never happen and anyone who says they are must be lying. That says a lot about your intellectual honesty and credibility, and it is now your responsibililty to make amends if you want me or anyone else reading this to ever take anything you say in good faith. Your ball, "Canadian."

A family on facebook yeah i get it, they must quite true right?


Its not surprising you avoided my comment about Saddam's incubators story but.

That says a lot about your intellectual honesty and credibility, and it is now your responsibililty to make amends if you want me or anyone else reading this to ever take anything you say in good faith. Your ball, "Canadian."

Really? are you now accusing me of being stupid and uncool for not supporting the opposition in Venezuela? that is nothing more then an Color revolution.

This implies that if there were ever real shortages, you'd expect only one person or family to notice or talk about it, which inherently violates the meaning of "shortages." I'm directly criticizing the fantastically poor logic you used in making that argument. Instead of making a sensible rebuttal or conceding that you overreached

Its called Propaganda and thats why i dont buy it from this alleged family on facebook? people still use facebook? now thats a laugh.

 

[AngryCanadian]

You specifically said that social media corroborating a family's reports of shortages was suspicious (implying Madison320, his wife, or her family is lying), because they corroborated it. This implies that if there were ever real shortages, you'd expect only one person or family to notice or talk about it, which inherently violates the meaning of "shortages." I'm directly criticizing the fantastically poor logic you used in making that argument. Instead of making a sensible rebuttal or conceding that you overreached, you're totally dodging the criticism and reasserting a naked, circular conclusion that shortages could apparently never happen and anyone who says they are must be lying. That says a lot about your intellectual honesty and credibility, and it is now your responsibililty to make amends if you want me or anyone else reading this to ever take anything you say in good faith. Your ball, "Canadian."

As such i am sure you would agree with this.

 

[Mini-Me]

A family on facebook yeah i get it, they must quite true right?

I'm talking about Madison320's wife's family, not gwax23's Spanish friend. Maybe Madison320's wife's family talked over Facebook, or maybe it was over email, or maybe it was over snail mail letters. It doesn't matter. The basic argument you made was that anyone who ever complains of shortages MUST be lying as part of a conspiracy against the perfect Venezuelan government, especially if someone else corroborates them. There cannot POSSIBLY be real problems in Venezuela and real unhappy people that the CIA is exploiting for their own ends, right? Any evidence of this is only evidence that the conspiracy is even wider than you thought, right?

It's nonsensical, and I called you on it. It's theoretically possible that the reports of shortages are fabricated, but you would need to make far more convincing and logical arguments to be taken seriously.

Its not surprising you avoided my comment about Saddam's incubators story but.

The Saddam incubator story you used to change the subject is absolutely irrelevant to criticizing specific non sequiturs in your logic, but for the record, no, of course I never believed it. If I had even heard such a ridiculous story over ten years ago, I would have sought out someone like Ron Paul a lot sooner too.

Granted, it's just barely possible that a total psychopath like Saddam might do something like that as a recreational activity (replace Saddam with "John McCain" or "Kermit Gosnell" to see what I mean), but he'd be likely to keep it so secret that it's unlikely any reports would have emerged. That makes it exceedingly likely that the reports were ridiculous propaganda, and any resemblance to real life events would have been coincidental. Never forget that the world isn't run by "good guy governments" and "bad guy governments." It's run by "bad guy governments with good PR" and "bad guy governments with bad PR," and every single one without exception is abusive.

Really? are you now accusing me of being stupid and uncool for not supporting the opposition in Venezuela? that is nothing more then an Color revolution.

No, I'm accusing you of being dishonest for using invalid logic to support your position and deliberately evading criticism of your specific arguments with misdirection and wild accusations. Even if you were correct - doubtful - you would need logical arguments to convince people of it.

Its called Propaganda and thats why i dont buy it from this alleged family on facebook? people still use facebook? now thats a laugh.

gwax23 referred to Facebook, but Madison320 never said "Facebook" in his post about his wife's family, which is what I was referring to.

In any case, yes, people actually do still use Facebook...unless you're suggesting there are literally billions of CIA agents and fake users on Facebook generating petabytes of false photos, wall posts, and status updates, all to pretend it still has users. Is that what you're suggesting? If not, clarify why you believe that absolutely no one uses Facebook anymore, and reconcile that with the continuing activity on Facebook.

As such i am sure you would agree with this.

I see you find it appropriate to respond to specific logical criticisms with more wild unsubstantiated accusations and a neg rep saying:

I am sure you arent an Ron Paul supputer, as Ron Paul doesnt support Color reveoultions.

Incidentally, that was the first neg rep I've ever received, and it couldn't have come from a more insincere troll, so I suppose I'll take it as a compliment. In light of my posting history in this thread and others I'd say you're incapable of reading comprehension, but I'd be fooling myself to think you were posting in good faith at all. I'll assume your straw man attacks are deliberate. Neg rep returned (first I've given as well, I believe).

 

[Madison320]

Incidentally, that was the first neg rep I've ever received, and it couldn't have come from a more insincere troll, so I suppose I'll take it as a compliment. In light of my posting history in this thread and others I'd say you're incapable of reading comprehension, but I'd be fooling myself to think you were posting in good faith at all. I'll assume your straw man attacks are deliberate. Neg rep returned (first I've given as well, I believe).

Why are you wasting your time on this guy?

 

[Mini-Me]

What are you wasting your time on this guy?

This thread has been my first real interaction with him, so I wasn't really sure what he was about until now. With as long as he's been here without being banned, I guess I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt at first. His responses have been so jaw-droppingly asinine though that I'm morbidly curious about just how insane they might get given the right question. You're right though, because it IS a waste of time. :-/

 

[MRK]

As such i am sure you would agree with this.

I'm willing to bet at least 95% of the people in that picture don't know what procrastination or audacity means or what a Republican might be.

 

[AngryCanadian]

I'm talking about Madison320's wife's family, not gwax23's Spanish friend. Maybe Madison320's wife's family talked over Facebook, or maybe it was over email, or maybe it was over snail mail letters. It doesn't matter. The basic argument you made was that anyone who ever complains of shortages MUST be lying as part of a conspiracy against the perfect Venezuelan government, especially if someone else corroborates them. There cannot POSSIBLY be real problems in Venezuela and real unhappy people that the CIA is exploiting for their own ends, right? Any evidence of this is only evidence that the conspiracy is even wider than you thought, right?

It's nonsensical, and I called you on it. It's theoretically possible that the reports of shortages are fabricated, but you would need to make far more convincing and logical arguments to be taken seriously.


The Saddam incubator story you used to change the subject is absolutely irrelevant to criticizing specific non sequiturs in your logic, but for the record, no, of course I never believed it. If I had even heard such a ridiculous story over ten years ago, I would have sought out someone like Ron Paul a lot sooner too.

Granted, it's just barely possible that a total psychopath like Saddam might do something like that as a recreational activity (replace Saddam with "John McCain" or "Kermit Gosnell" to see what I mean), but he'd be likely to keep it so secret that it's unlikely any reports would have emerged. That makes it exceedingly likely that the reports were ridiculous propaganda, and any resemblance to real life events would have been coincidental. Never forget that the world isn't run by "good guy governments" and "bad guy governments." It's run by "bad guy governments with good PR" and "bad guy governments with bad PR," and every single one without exception is abusive.


No, I'm accusing you of being dishonest for using invalid logic to support your position and deliberately evading criticism of your specific arguments with misdirection and wild accusations. Even if you were correct - doubtful - you would need logical arguments to convince people of it.


gwax23 referred to Facebook, but Madison320 never said "Facebook" in his post about his wife's family, which is what I was referring to.

In any case, yes, people actually do still use Facebook...unless you're suggesting there are literally billions of CIA agents and fake users on Facebook generating petabytes of false photos, wall posts, and status updates, all to pretend it still has users. Is that what you're suggesting? If not, clarify why you believe that absolutely no one uses Facebook anymore, and reconcile that with the continuing activity on Facebook.




I see you find it appropriate to respond to specific logical criticisms with more wild unsubstantiated accusations and a neg rep saying:

Incidentally, that was the first neg rep I've ever received, and it couldn't have come from a more insincere troll, so I suppose I'll take it as a compliment. In light of my posting history in this thread and others I'd say you're incapable of reading comprehension, but I'd be fooling myself to think you were posting in good faith at all. I'll assume your straw man attacks are deliberate. Neg rep returned (first I've given as well, I believe).

I am not an troll nice try with that accusation. After reading what you wrote here.

that the CIA is exploiting for their own ends, right? Any evidence of this is only evidence that the conspiracy is even wider than you thought, right?

Your basically asking me to show you evidence that the CIA are exploiting the protests and have manufactured it the same they have done it in Ukraine?

 

[Mini-Me]

I am not an troll nice try with that accusation. After reading what you wrote here.

Your basically asking me to show you evidence that the CIA are exploiting the protests and have manufactured it the same they have done it in Ukraine?

No. I am already well-aware the CIA is exploiting the protests and involved in their inception. That is how they work, and I have agreed with you on that point more than once already. This is the third time at least. I also agree with you that the CIA is evil. However, it is very likely (actually a foregone conclusion) that Venezuela already has very real problems that the CIA is exploiting, and that the protestors have legitimate reason to protest and revolt too. That's why it was so easy for the CIA to agitate in the first place. Follow me so far?

My position is that there are more than two sides in this conflict. The protestors are probably mostly good people being manipulated by bad people (the CIA) into toppling other bad people (the Venezuelan government), because the CIA wants to hijack their revolution and install a puppet government (which is not what the protestors want). Unfortunately, the CIA is much more likely to get what they want out of this than the protestors. It is bad if the CIA wins, and it is also bad if the Venezuelan government wins; the people are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Venezuelan people will probably lose either way, but if they resist they at least have a chance to reject both oppressors. It all depends on how many are prepared to fight the CIA's emerging puppet regime as hard as they're fighting the current regime. All I can do is hope that they're learning how this works, so they can reject both. It's not going to be easy though, thanks to Venezuelan gun control: The Venezuelan government has guns and body armor and explosives and the whole nine yards, and the CIA's "chosen few" will have guns and body armor and explosives and the whole nine yards, but nobody else will have anything comparable, so it will be hard for the rest of the genuine protestors to assert control of their movement, especially if things get too violent.

Your position seems to be that anyone complaining of real problems in Venezuela is just part of the conspiracy to make the perfect Venezuelan government look bad...and that if anyone else provides evidence to corroborate them (i.e. gwax23 and Madison320's posts backing each other up from different sources, and the fact you say you've heard the same claims elsewhere on social media), that it cannot possibly be evidence of real problems in Venezuela. Instead, you seem to conclude it's only evidence that gwax23, Madison320, and/or their sources (such as Madison320's wife's family) are "in on" the conspiracy to tell lies about the infallible Venezuelan government...especially if the communication occurs over Facebook, because you imply no real people ever use Facebook anymore (so the billion or more who do must all be plants?). The question you just responded to was a sarcastic one.

I should really just stop wasting my time though.

 

[AngryCanadian]

No. I am already well-aware the CIA is exploiting the protests and involved in their inception. That is how they work, and I have agreed with you on that point more than once already. This is the third time at least. I also agree with you that the CIA is evil. However, it is very likely (actually a foregone conclusion) that Venezuela already has very real problems that the CIA is exploiting, and that the protestors have legitimate reason to protest and revolt too. That's why it was so easy for the CIA to agitate in the first place. Follow me so far?

My position is that there are more than two sides in this conflict. The protestors are probably mostly good people being manipulated by bad people (the CIA) into toppling other bad people (the Venezuelan government), because the CIA wants to hijack their revolution and install a puppet government (which is not what the protestors want). Unfortunately, the CIA is much more likely to get what they want out of this than the protestors. It is bad if the CIA wins, and it is also bad if the Venezuelan government wins; the people are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Venezuelan people will probably lose either way, but if they resist they at least have a chance to reject both oppressors. It all depends on how many are prepared to fight the CIA's emerging puppet regime as hard as they're fighting the current regime. All I can do is hope that they're learning how this works, so they can reject both. It's not going to be easy though, thanks to Venezuelan gun control: The Venezuelan government has guns and body armor and explosives and the whole nine yards, and the CIA's "chosen few" will have guns and body armor and explosives and the whole nine yards, but nobody else will have anything comparable, so it will be hard for the rest of the genuine protestors to assert control of their movement, especially if things get too violent.

Your position seems to be that anyone complaining of real problems in Venezuela is just part of the conspiracy to make the perfect Venezuelan government look bad...and that if anyone else provides evidence to corroborate them (i.e. gwax23 and Madison320's posts backing each other up from different sources, and the fact you say you've heard the same claims elsewhere on social media), that it cannot possibly be evidence of real problems in Venezuela. Instead, you seem to conclude it's only evidence that gwax23, Madison320, and/or their sources (such as Madison320's wife's family) are "in on" the conspiracy to tell lies about the infallible Venezuelan government...especially if the communication occurs over Facebook, because you imply no real people ever use Facebook anymore (so the billion or more who do must all be plants?). The question you just responded to was a sarcastic one.

I should really just stop wasting my time though.

You know how i feel about posts from facebook right? i dont even use twitter as much i used. By the way this should interest u.


What is happening in Venezuela?

To create conditions of un-governability, the so-called “democratic opposition” had taken to barricading the roads to prevent the free movement of people and precipitate a crisis. They have set up barricades using boulders, glass, trees, trash filled bags, and anything else at their disposal. In other cases they are throwing glass and nails (called miguelitos, nails thrust through pieces of garden hose) onto the road to impede traffic. The police and the National Guard have cleaned city streets on numerous occasions. However, protestors hide materials and take over the streets again once the Guard departs.

Don't try to switch my support to the opposition. Cause thats never going to occur.

 

[Paulbot99]

Have fun supporting the Communists.

 

[qh4dotcom]

Why is everyone focusing only on the Venezuelans living in Venezuela? What about the Venezuelans living here in the US? They sure did not forget about their love and culture of socialism when they came here.

All of these Venezuelans don't understand that in order to have prosperity and meaningful change in their country their love and culture of socialism needs to be rejected. What's the point of overthrowing Maduro if they are going to elect another corrupt socialist president like him who will abuse power like he does?

Here's what a Cuban lady I know told me after she read my comments on Venezuela. Thousands of Venezuelans live in Doral, a city in the Miami area.

"I stood in line to vote in Doral both times and all Venezuelans around me were supporting Obama, all Democrats on the ballot, and tax hikes like the school bonds. They were all voting on the state amendments according to the what how the Democratic party told them to vote. And, one of those state amendments was against Obamacare. We got into some debates in that line. It was early voting so the line was long and we were standing there for five hours. They were defending all the socialist policies tooth and nail. They even defended the tax hikes for the school bonds after I showed them on my phone all the proof I had of the waste and mismanagement going on in our public schools since I'm a teacher and I know exactly what goes on. They didn't even understand that they were getting a tax increase. They kept arguing that the bonds were already there and that it belonged to the schools and that they were being given for free by the government. They had no concept of how bonds work, etc. and they still didn't care to know because as one venezuelan lady put it....it is the number one job of the government to provide lots of public social services for the people. And the Cubans are the same issue. .those new arrivals coming after the early 80s. You should hear most of them. They love socialism."

How dumb do you have to be to vote against the Florida constitutional amendment to nullify Obamacare? It did not pass by the way, no thanks to the Venezuelans.

 

[AngryCanadian]

Have fun supporting the Communists.

Ironic some NeoCons pretending to be libertarian while supporting armed opposition thugs the same as some NeoCons support the fascists in Kiev.

 

[AngryCanadian]

For those judging my point of view on this topic do enjoy reading this.
What Americans Can Learn From Venezuelan Democracy

 

[Paulbot99]

Ironic some NeoCons pretending to be libertarian while supporting armed opposition thugs the same as some NeoCons support the fascists in Kiev.

Oh, I don't want us involved. That doesn't mean I can't have a distaste for Communism, though. And I'm sure the police aren't part of the opposition.

 

[MelissaWV]

Why is everyone focusing only on the Venezuelans living in Venezuela? What about the Venezuelans living here in the US? They sure did not forget about their love and culture of socialism when they came here.

All of these Venezuelans don't understand that in order to have prosperity and meaningful change in their country their love and culture of socialism needs to be rejected. What's the point of overthrowing Maduro if they are going to elect another corrupt socialist president like him who will abuse power like he does?

Here's what a Cuban lady I know told me after she read my comments on Venezuela. Thousands of Venezuelans live in Doral, a city in the Miami area.



How dumb do you have to be to vote against the Florida constitutional amendment to nullify Obamacare? It did not pass by the way, no thanks to the Venezuelans.

The first several times you posted this anecdotal horsepucky in another thread weren't enough. You had to drag it here to up the stench.

 

[politics]

Some day, US policymakers will understand that the carrot and stick policy on latin america just doesn't work, never did.
Just need to use the carrot, be patience, it will work.
I know it may mean nothing to most of you right now, but indeed, it is just that simple