gwax23
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2012
- Messages
- 1,896
I had a nice conversation on Facebook tonight with a friend I have in venezuela. I met him at an Airport in Spain. We were both on our way to Italy. I remember vaguely at the time talking briefly about politics/economics and the situation in Venezuela. This was still when Chavez was alive.
He messaged me recently and we began talking about the protests. It was definitely an interesting conversation and changed my views on the situation there a bit. I was previously very pessimistic thinking it was just socialist fighting for more socialists and that the people didnt want real freedom just more handouts. He lives in Caracas in the mist of it all. His english is bad so I spoke in the beginning simply before using a translator. He seemed very libertarian and I even linked him to the Spanish Mises Institute website. At first I thought I was going to have to argue with him about how government was the problem but amazingly he took the words out of my mouth and agreed with me completely. I was impressed and it gave me hope for the situation there and elsewhere. In general nice little insight into the goings on in Venezuela. Heres the edited convo if you guys are interested:
==
Gian Paolo
hi dude
Me
9:21pm
hey man how u holdin up?
Gian Paolo
9:50pm
good, good, but the situation here is difficult and you?
Me
9:51pm
im good thank you. And yes i heard about the riots in venezuela. Maduro is an asshole. did u protest?
Gian Paolo
9:54pm
yes, ofcourse I protest, almost every day
Me
9:55pm
what do the police do?
Gian Paolo
10:02pm
there is also a group who call themselves, who are armed by the government which they deny, and appear shooting, most of those killed in protests is their fault, and the government says we shoot ourselves, and we took all television channels for the truth is not known, every day the shortage is worse in the bad economic policies of the government, when this country has a lot more oil than dubai, it is absurd that we are so.
Me
10:03pm
I see Whats the name of this group? Do you think maduro will fall? Do you support socialism or capitalism?
What does it say on the tv stations in venezuela?
Gian Paolo
10:07pm
this grups are called COLECTIVOS. I Support capitalism, society must go hand in hand with private companies. on television that say nothing is bought by the government, what happens is that this is not ukraine, life is worth little and complaining that the government is hard to leave, but I hope
Me
10:10pm
Thanks for the information. Do you like Capriles? Lopez? Who are the main leaders of the protests?
Gian Paolo
10:14pm
if you knew that neither pleases me, lopez is very smart like capriles, but none gives solutions to overcome this problem, my leaders to ourselves our solution we are looking for out of this, but would vote for any two of them.
Me
10:16pm
Gotcha. They are better than the status quo but nothing special. I study economics/politics so Im interested in this stuff thats why I ask. How are the prices there? are they rising? Are things very expensive? Shortages?
Gian Paolo
10:17pm
and you how are you? how are things over there? I think the prox year if this is solved, I will travel to new york with my girlfriend
Me
10:18pm
Im ok. Things are tough here too, like everywhere. You should come to NY youll have a lot of fun. Lots of Venezuelans live here and go to my school.
Gian Paolo
10:19pm
every day there are more scarce, the government does not give raw material to the remaining few private companies, and private companies expropriated they do not put into production,
Me
10:20pm
Here in the US they have been saying there is no toilet paper left in Venezuela. Is this true?
Gian Paolo
10:20pm
prices rise every day more, and is worth less than the bolivar against the dollar
the government has stolen a lot, invest in weapons that do not need, saying "you are going to invade us" that other governments would they sold the country to united states, priate sell them to China and Russia.
no se cansan de mentir para que la gente de pocos recursos se crean todas sus mentiras (government lies a lot?)
Me
10:24pm
¿Qué piensan de los estadounidenses en Venezuela? (What do venezuelans think of Americans?
Gian Paolo
10:28pm
opposition we do not have nothing against you, but the "people" think they are going to invade us they want us to steal all the lies told by the government that recur every day, although they vacacionen in use and have their accounts millions there.
Me
10:30pm
¿Quieres salir de Venezuela? ¿Cómo se mantiene a sí mismo? ¿Hay puestos de trabajo? (Do you want to leave Venezuela? How do you support yourself? Are there jobs?
Gian Paolo
10:33pm
each day the work is less, but I work on my own and does not affect me, but every day it costs me more to get materials remains that people invent any street work, etc. .. I do not want to go to Venezuela , it would be easy, but I love my country.
Me
10:38pm
Eso es bueno. Manténgase a salvo. Estoy interesado en esta materia y estudio la economía. Este sitio web de un grupo que apoyo y el trabajo para: http://www.miseshispano.org/ Tienen un montón de artículos y libros sobre la economía. Apoyan a la libertad, el capitalismo y la paz. Si alguna vez tiene tiempo de leer algunas de las cosas hay que me haga saber lo que piensas. (Told him about the mises institute and how I support capitalism and freedom etc etc)
Instituto Mises Hispano | Cooperación voluntaria, coexistencia pacífica
www.miseshispano.org
Gian Paolo
10:38pm
explain to me your you study economics, as it is possible that a country with many mineral resources, fertile agricultural fields, oil and people who want to work and aspire to be someone in the future, somo almost the poorest country of Latin America?
Me
10:40pm
El gobierno es la raíz de todos los problemas. Restringen el comercio y destruir la prosperidad. El socialismo y el comunismo no funcionan. La historia tiene mostrar esto. Ellos sólo destruyen. Venezuela es rica en recursos y podría fácilmente ser muy rico. Maduro y Chávez y todo el gobierno corrupto han robado al pueblo y destruyó la economía.
Gian Paolo
10:41pm
exactamente
Me
10:42pm
Crean el control de precios con el fin de mantener los precios bajos. Pero si los precios son demasiado bajos forzados nadie va a vender o hacerlos. Es por eso que usted tiene una escasez. Los precios están subiendo en Venezuela porque el gobierno imprime dinero de la nada. El único dinero real es el oro y la plata, pero los trucos del gobierno la gente a pensar en su "papel" es el dinero. No es. Es inútil. Cuanto más que imprimen el menos valioso se vuelve.
Me
10:43pm
Los gobiernos no crean nada, no producen nada. Sólo pueden usar la fuerza para robar a la gente. Cualesquiera que sean las governemnts tienen es algo que han robado al pueblo. Los gobiernos son los parásitos.
Gian Paolo
10:46pm
el gobierno tiene que administrar e invertir?
Me
10:47pm
No. Lo único que el gobierno debería hacer es proteger los derechos del pueblo. Protege contra el robo, el asesinato, asalto, etc Nada más que eso. El sector privado y las empresas son los que invierten y crean.
Cuanto menos los gobiernos hagan lo mejor. Venezuela necesita más libertad, no más gobierno. El gobierno siempre va a decir "Esto lo hacemos por los pobres", "hacemos esto también ayuda" "vamos a hacer las cosas betetr" pero mentir. Ellos sólo empeoran las cosas.
Gian Paolo
10:50pm
sure, sure, I know, but I say in this case and that this government claims to be "socialist" should do that in socialism?
este gobierno elimino el sector privado para ellos tener el control
:S
todos los gobiernos "socialistas" mienten de la misma forma
Me
10:53pm
Sí. Y ahora todo el mundo sufre por ello. Deshágase de los impuestos, las regulaciones y las leyes, y los controles y las reglas. Deja que la gente sea libre de hacer lo que les plazca aslong ya que te hace daño a nadie más. Soy un libertario (eso es lo que lo llaman en América) Creemos que la gente debe tener la libertad de hacer lo que quieran, siempre y cuando ellos no herir a nadie más.
Gian Paolo
10:55pm
aqui la mitad de los venezolanos creemos en eso, la otra mitad les metieron en el cerebro la mentira
Me
10:56pm
Sí. El gobierno es dueño de todos los medios de comunicación. Son dueños de los periódicos, las estaciones de televisión, de radio de todo. No puede haber "libertad de prensa" o "libertad de expresión" si el gobierno es dueño de todo.
Gian Paolo
11:00pm
and not just the media, also the CNE, which is the electorar system, the Attorney General, the Minister of Communication, education among others, national guard and army.
why we never win elections, too, that the poor vote for the government always had little and the government gave them anything to conform and lies, many lies ...
Me
11:02pm
exactamente! Sobre todo la educación. El gobierno no educa a la gente que la lluvia lava them.People ir a las escuelas públicas a partir de una edad muy temprana y se les dice a amar la governemnt y que el gobierno es bueno. Ellos no aprender nada, sólo obedecer
Gian Paolo
11:03pm
exactamente
Me
11:03pm
Ya cree en lo que estoy diciendo. Esto es bueno. Y sí, el pobre se deje engañar por las governemnts "promete" el gobierno les promete un millón de cosas y creen que para que voten por ellos. Pero nada cambia. Su siempre la misma. Ellos siguen siendo pobres y el gobierno se mantiene en el poder.
He messaged me recently and we began talking about the protests. It was definitely an interesting conversation and changed my views on the situation there a bit. I was previously very pessimistic thinking it was just socialist fighting for more socialists and that the people didnt want real freedom just more handouts. He lives in Caracas in the mist of it all. His english is bad so I spoke in the beginning simply before using a translator. He seemed very libertarian and I even linked him to the Spanish Mises Institute website. At first I thought I was going to have to argue with him about how government was the problem but amazingly he took the words out of my mouth and agreed with me completely. I was impressed and it gave me hope for the situation there and elsewhere. In general nice little insight into the goings on in Venezuela. Heres the edited convo if you guys are interested:
==
Gian Paolo
hi dude
Me
9:21pm
hey man how u holdin up?
Gian Paolo
9:50pm
good, good, but the situation here is difficult and you?
Me
9:51pm
im good thank you. And yes i heard about the riots in venezuela. Maduro is an asshole. did u protest?
Gian Paolo
9:54pm
yes, ofcourse I protest, almost every day
Me
9:55pm
what do the police do?
Gian Paolo
10:02pm
there is also a group who call themselves, who are armed by the government which they deny, and appear shooting, most of those killed in protests is their fault, and the government says we shoot ourselves, and we took all television channels for the truth is not known, every day the shortage is worse in the bad economic policies of the government, when this country has a lot more oil than dubai, it is absurd that we are so.
Me
10:03pm
I see Whats the name of this group? Do you think maduro will fall? Do you support socialism or capitalism?
What does it say on the tv stations in venezuela?
Gian Paolo
10:07pm
this grups are called COLECTIVOS. I Support capitalism, society must go hand in hand with private companies. on television that say nothing is bought by the government, what happens is that this is not ukraine, life is worth little and complaining that the government is hard to leave, but I hope
Me
10:10pm
Thanks for the information. Do you like Capriles? Lopez? Who are the main leaders of the protests?
Gian Paolo
10:14pm
if you knew that neither pleases me, lopez is very smart like capriles, but none gives solutions to overcome this problem, my leaders to ourselves our solution we are looking for out of this, but would vote for any two of them.
Me
10:16pm
Gotcha. They are better than the status quo but nothing special. I study economics/politics so Im interested in this stuff thats why I ask. How are the prices there? are they rising? Are things very expensive? Shortages?
Gian Paolo
10:17pm
and you how are you? how are things over there? I think the prox year if this is solved, I will travel to new york with my girlfriend
Me
10:18pm
Im ok. Things are tough here too, like everywhere. You should come to NY youll have a lot of fun. Lots of Venezuelans live here and go to my school.
Gian Paolo
10:19pm
every day there are more scarce, the government does not give raw material to the remaining few private companies, and private companies expropriated they do not put into production,
Me
10:20pm
Here in the US they have been saying there is no toilet paper left in Venezuela. Is this true?
Gian Paolo
10:20pm
prices rise every day more, and is worth less than the bolivar against the dollar
the government has stolen a lot, invest in weapons that do not need, saying "you are going to invade us" that other governments would they sold the country to united states, priate sell them to China and Russia.
no se cansan de mentir para que la gente de pocos recursos se crean todas sus mentiras (government lies a lot?)
Me
10:24pm
¿Qué piensan de los estadounidenses en Venezuela? (What do venezuelans think of Americans?
Gian Paolo
10:28pm
opposition we do not have nothing against you, but the "people" think they are going to invade us they want us to steal all the lies told by the government that recur every day, although they vacacionen in use and have their accounts millions there.
Me
10:30pm
¿Quieres salir de Venezuela? ¿Cómo se mantiene a sí mismo? ¿Hay puestos de trabajo? (Do you want to leave Venezuela? How do you support yourself? Are there jobs?
Gian Paolo
10:33pm
each day the work is less, but I work on my own and does not affect me, but every day it costs me more to get materials remains that people invent any street work, etc. .. I do not want to go to Venezuela , it would be easy, but I love my country.
Me
10:38pm
Eso es bueno. Manténgase a salvo. Estoy interesado en esta materia y estudio la economía. Este sitio web de un grupo que apoyo y el trabajo para: http://www.miseshispano.org/ Tienen un montón de artículos y libros sobre la economía. Apoyan a la libertad, el capitalismo y la paz. Si alguna vez tiene tiempo de leer algunas de las cosas hay que me haga saber lo que piensas. (Told him about the mises institute and how I support capitalism and freedom etc etc)
Instituto Mises Hispano | Cooperación voluntaria, coexistencia pacífica
www.miseshispano.org
Gian Paolo
10:38pm
explain to me your you study economics, as it is possible that a country with many mineral resources, fertile agricultural fields, oil and people who want to work and aspire to be someone in the future, somo almost the poorest country of Latin America?
Me
10:40pm
El gobierno es la raíz de todos los problemas. Restringen el comercio y destruir la prosperidad. El socialismo y el comunismo no funcionan. La historia tiene mostrar esto. Ellos sólo destruyen. Venezuela es rica en recursos y podría fácilmente ser muy rico. Maduro y Chávez y todo el gobierno corrupto han robado al pueblo y destruyó la economía.
Gian Paolo
10:41pm
exactamente
Me
10:42pm
Crean el control de precios con el fin de mantener los precios bajos. Pero si los precios son demasiado bajos forzados nadie va a vender o hacerlos. Es por eso que usted tiene una escasez. Los precios están subiendo en Venezuela porque el gobierno imprime dinero de la nada. El único dinero real es el oro y la plata, pero los trucos del gobierno la gente a pensar en su "papel" es el dinero. No es. Es inútil. Cuanto más que imprimen el menos valioso se vuelve.
Me
10:43pm
Los gobiernos no crean nada, no producen nada. Sólo pueden usar la fuerza para robar a la gente. Cualesquiera que sean las governemnts tienen es algo que han robado al pueblo. Los gobiernos son los parásitos.
Gian Paolo
10:46pm
el gobierno tiene que administrar e invertir?
Me
10:47pm
No. Lo único que el gobierno debería hacer es proteger los derechos del pueblo. Protege contra el robo, el asesinato, asalto, etc Nada más que eso. El sector privado y las empresas son los que invierten y crean.
Cuanto menos los gobiernos hagan lo mejor. Venezuela necesita más libertad, no más gobierno. El gobierno siempre va a decir "Esto lo hacemos por los pobres", "hacemos esto también ayuda" "vamos a hacer las cosas betetr" pero mentir. Ellos sólo empeoran las cosas.
Gian Paolo
10:50pm
sure, sure, I know, but I say in this case and that this government claims to be "socialist" should do that in socialism?
este gobierno elimino el sector privado para ellos tener el control
:S
todos los gobiernos "socialistas" mienten de la misma forma
Me
10:53pm
Sí. Y ahora todo el mundo sufre por ello. Deshágase de los impuestos, las regulaciones y las leyes, y los controles y las reglas. Deja que la gente sea libre de hacer lo que les plazca aslong ya que te hace daño a nadie más. Soy un libertario (eso es lo que lo llaman en América) Creemos que la gente debe tener la libertad de hacer lo que quieran, siempre y cuando ellos no herir a nadie más.
Gian Paolo
10:55pm
aqui la mitad de los venezolanos creemos en eso, la otra mitad les metieron en el cerebro la mentira
Me
10:56pm
Sí. El gobierno es dueño de todos los medios de comunicación. Son dueños de los periódicos, las estaciones de televisión, de radio de todo. No puede haber "libertad de prensa" o "libertad de expresión" si el gobierno es dueño de todo.
Gian Paolo
11:00pm
and not just the media, also the CNE, which is the electorar system, the Attorney General, the Minister of Communication, education among others, national guard and army.
why we never win elections, too, that the poor vote for the government always had little and the government gave them anything to conform and lies, many lies ...
Me
11:02pm
exactamente! Sobre todo la educación. El gobierno no educa a la gente que la lluvia lava them.People ir a las escuelas públicas a partir de una edad muy temprana y se les dice a amar la governemnt y que el gobierno es bueno. Ellos no aprender nada, sólo obedecer
Gian Paolo
11:03pm
exactamente
Me
11:03pm
Ya cree en lo que estoy diciendo. Esto es bueno. Y sí, el pobre se deje engañar por las governemnts "promete" el gobierno les promete un millón de cosas y creen que para que voten por ellos. Pero nada cambia. Su siempre la misma. Ellos siguen siendo pobres y el gobierno se mantiene en el poder.
