Congressman-elect dies of Covid; GOP Leader Who Was Hospitalized Blames Trump’s Maskless Bash

[Invisible Man]

Covid-19 is no ordinary cold.

I don't see why that makes a difference. It's not some new thing that overturns all that humanity knew through a century of studying infectious diseases and viruses. It still follows all the same rules that scientists understood full well when continuously up until last year they rejected the validity of postulated social distancing and mask wearing strategies that suddenly started getting pushed by governments, in a retreat back into pre-modern unscientific ideas.

Pcosmar's mention of cold viruses is more apropos than you let on, not only on account of comparisons between the common cold and COVID 19, but also because it points to how, if masks and other such measures actually do have the effect of impeding the spread of infections from one of these viruses, then they also must impede others, and the result is the contradiction of all that we've learned from science about the benefits of infections in developing our immune systems. We're not only passing up the opportunity to develop immunity to COVID 19, but also lots of other things. We either keep wearing masks and social distancing forever, or we do it temporarily, and then when we quit end up with a population of dry tinder ready to be engulfed by all kinds of viruses we would have had herd immunity to, facing a situation reminiscent of what happened when Europeans brought viruses to the Americas that hadn't yet made their way through the native populations.

 

[devil21]

Pelosi admitted he died of a blood clot during her presser.

"A blood clot, a covid complication."

In other words, he died of a blood clot and happened to test positive using the bs PCR test around the same time.

 

[pcosmar]

Covid-19 is no ordinary cold.

Every Cold is Different..
Every time you get a Cold you are immune to that cold.. And the Cold Virus Mutates.. And that Cold goes around..

As it has been for Generation upon Generation.

The Common Cold is a Corona Virus..

"Covid-19" is a Media Promoted Name for this years Cold. (and it has never been Isolated)

Propaganda on top of Pseudoscience.

 

[RJ Liberty]

If our paths ever cross (and they well might as we are both Arizonans), then food is on me. Disagreements are natural, and I harbor no ill will over them. Steel sharpens steel.

Not sure what general part of the state you are in, but I am in the southeast corner, just six miles from the border. If food is on you, then drinks are on me. If Massey or Rand ever run for POTUS after this mess, I'll attend a rally.

Indeed, eventually everyone must take some of the risks associated with living. My hyperbole (to the degree it was hyperbole) was primarily meant to emphasize that at-risk people should be using every available avenue to stay safe. Other than that, the virus needs to get around so that herd immunity is established faster. The at-risk are not being aided by slowing the process unless one really believes a vaccine will solve the problem altogether. I do not believe any vaccine will demonstrate efficacy beyond that of the flu virus vaccine, so one can easily understand where I am coming from on this. It is also worth pointing out that many more millions of Americans are at risk from the economic issues associated with incompetent leaders ordering lockdowns, so time is of the essence.

I agree that we will not see this virus have more efficacy than any flu vaccine. In fact, we know this vaccine was rushed, so... we'll see what happens.

Good. Your dad has the right spirit. Every American worth his salt should reject anyone telling them to do anything they think is against their self-interest. I applaud every single soul that recognizes the risks in trying to live a meaningful life. What he chooses to do is his choice, and it makes me smile to know his spirit is free.

Both my dad and my (paternal) aunt are liberty-leaning. Just two years ago, my aunt pointed out End the Fed on a store bookshelf (of course, I already had a copy). She tends to confuse Ron Paul with Paul Ryan, but still...

 

[RJ Liberty]

I don't see why that makes a difference. It's not some new thing that overturns all that humanity knew through a century of studying infectious diseases and viruses. It still follows all the same rules that scientists understood full well when continuously up until last year they rejected the validity of postulated social distancing and mask wearing strategies that suddenly started getting pushed by governments, in a retreat back into pre-modern unscientific ideas.

Sort of. But even Trump understood it when his advisors told him it was more deadly than the flu. I've got too many at-risk family members to ignore medical advice from actual doctors, in favor of "Michael S." and a psychiatrist working as a naturalist.

 

[Invisible Man]

Sort of. But even Trump understood it when his advisors told him it was more deadly than the flu. I've got too many at-risk family members to ignore medical advice from actual doctors, in favor of "Michael S." and a psychiatrist working as a naturalist.

Trump's taking that side doesn't help the case.

I don't deny that it's deadlier than typical annual flu strains. But it's not outside of the range that the flu can be either. Globally, it's on the same order as the Hong Kong Flu in 1968. There were no special measures that whole populations had to take, or were advised to take, in 1968, and it wasn't for lack of knowledge about epidemics and viruses. I think the number of deaths attributed to COVID 19 in the US is highly inflated. I'm not sure how it would compare with some of the worse than normal annual flus, like what we just recently had in I think 2018, if we really compared apples with apples in how we counted the deaths.

There are plenty of actual doctors and epidemiologists who aren't in favor of having a society-wide rule of people with no symptoms wearing masks and socially distancing.

I agree with you about the quacks saying the virus doesn't even exist.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Covid-19 is no ordinary cold.

From December through February, it was just like a common cold or flu. It was spreading unchecked. Many people had it, at least in California, where we have daily direct flights from Wuhan. For some it was very mild, for some, it was severe or lingering. If anyone died, it was called a pneumonia death. There was no panic. Nothing was out of the ordinary. Nancy Pelosi told everyone to come to Chinatown and party. It was normal.

It wasn't until the media driven panic that it became anything different from a normal cold/flu season. They said it was very similar to SARS/MERS, which have high death rates. There were unknowns. The death rate was unknown. They didn't know how to treat to it properly.

Once it was known that the death rate wasn't much different from a bad flu for some people, things should have returned to normal. But instead, the fear was blown out of proportion. And no one should trust government statistics. The incentives are to exaggerate everything related to COVID.

At this point, it’s about panic, power and profit.

The main scandal now is that politics have driven treatment, and they are stubbornly refusing to use treatments that work (like HCQ/Zinc/ZPac, monoclonal antibodies like those from Regeneron, and other very promising treatments like RLF-100).

Instead, they tell people to stay home, and come back when you can’t breath, and then at the hospital the main therapy is Remdesivir, which should be a case study in a corrupt crony pharma government scam. It doesn't work, and has a lot of side effects (other than profits).

 

[BSWPaulsen]

Not sure what general part of the state you are in, but I am in the southeast corner, just six miles from the border. If food is on you, then drinks are on me. If Massey or Rand ever run for POTUS after this mess, I'll attend a rally.

I live west of the town of Stanfield (~5 miles). It is west of the city of Casa Grande (~25 miles) and south of the city of Maricopa (~15 miles). It sounds like there is some distance, but nothing as dramatic as if you were based in Flagstaff (~3 hour drive).

I agree that we will not see this virus have more efficacy than any flu vaccine. In fact, we know this vaccine was rushed, so... we'll see what happens

Hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. Hopefully your family comes out of this unscathed.

Both my dad and my (paternal) aunt are liberty-leaning. Just two years ago, my aunt pointed out End the Fed on a store bookshelf (of course, I already had a copy). She tends to confuse Ron Paul with Paul Ryan, but still...

You are a lucky man.

 

[XNavyNuke]

B U L L S H I T
ZERO Evidence that COVID Fulfills Koch's 4 Germ Theory Postulates - Dr. Andrew Kaufman

Neither does acne, so go tell that that to all of the pimply teenagers and young adults on the computer in their parent's basement that it is all psychosomatic $h!t.

What does it take to satisfy Koch’s postulates two centuries later? Microbial genomics and Propionibacteria acnes

Developed in the 19th century, Robert Koch’s postulates are the four criteria designed to assess whether a microorganism causes a disease. As originally stated, the four criteria are: (1) The microorganism must be found in diseased but not healthy individuals; (2) The microorganism must be cultured from the diseased individual; (3) Inoculation of a healthy individual with the cultured microorganism must recapitulated the disease; and finally (4) The microorganism must be re-isolated from the inoculated, diseased individual and matched to the original microorganism. Koch’s postulates have been critically important in establishing the criteria whereby the scientific community agrees that a microorganism causes a disease.

Even Koch had to modify or bend the strictest interpretation of the first postulate. Koch discovered asymptomatic carriers of Vibrio cholera and Salmonella typhi, yielding the important distinction between asymptomatic clinical colonization and infection. Thus the field of inquiry into the intricate host-pathogen relationship was born.

XNN

 

[Madison320]

In the short term until people reach herd immunity from the vaccines, COVID positivity rates are used to justify lockdowns. In the long term, we have vaccines and we don't need to use the virus to achieve herd immunity.

As I'm reading through this thread I don't think anyone asked the really important question. Does any of this justify the use of government force? To either force people to wear a mask or not wear a mask? Or force people to get a vaccine or not?

I don't think covid is dangerous enough for the government to force people to do anything. I think at this point if you don't want to get it you can wear a mask or avoid public places, there's no need to force people to wear a mask.

I'm sure the non-mask wearers will agree with me however many of them are hypocrites. If the question is reversed many of them WANT to use the power of government force. I posted a question if businesses should be forcibly prevented from requiring vaccines for their employees and about half said YES the government should use force in that case. So they don't actually support liberty, they just support not getting vaccinated.

 

[XNavyNuke]

Both my dad and my (paternal) aunt are liberty-leaning. Just two years ago, my aunt pointed out End the Fed on a store bookshelf (of course, I already had a copy). She tends to confuse Ron Paul with Paul Ryan, but still...

That's better starting material for a reasonable conversation than most that you will get in life.

XNN

 

[Invisible Man]

As I'm reading through this thread I don't think anyone asked the really important question. Does any of this justify the use of government force?

I assume that's because that's not a question here. It's taken for granted that it doesn't.

 

[Contumacious]

If you're going to a psychiatrist for advice on viruses, you need to see a shrink.

And you haven't explained who "Michael S." is. Why should anyone here be taking medical advice from a guy with no last name?



It's my understanding that Koch's postulates were supplanted by Hill's criteria for causation several decades ago, but I don't know much about it. I listen to my doctor and my wife's doctor, and they say the same thing: be wary of anonymous sources giving medical advice on the Internet, especially when those sources have a political agenda. Right now, the hospitals in my state are overflowing with Covid patients in the ICUs.

AGAIN, explain the SCIENTIFIC reason a psychiatrist who must be a MEDICAL DOCTOR FIRST is SCIENTIFICALLY prevented from giving medical scientific opinions. That is specially true when the powers-that-be are ARBITRARILY taking medical licenses away in order to censor, suppress , intimidate, harass our medical/scientific community . The Christian Crusades all over again. Politics over science.

In Belgium the medical community is not being censored yet , and APPLYING KOCH'S POSTULATES challenge face masks, social distancing and the claim that there is a pandemic.



.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Every Cold is Different..
Every time you get a Cold you are immune to that cold.. And the Cold Virus Mutates.. And that Cold goes around..

As it has been for Generation upon Generation.

The Common Cold is a Corona Virus..

"Covid-19" is a Media Promoted Name for this years Cold. (and it has never been Isolated)

Propaganda on top of Pseudoscience.

Unlike media, Trump often used the terns "plague", "invisible enemy".

If I'm reading your view right, people were being fooled and lies were being told to them by a sitting POTUS when following statements were made & policies announced?
These statements were not made by "media":


Quote:
Trump's primary goal, or of any Prez for that matter, is to save lives and defend against all seen/unseen invasions (even though some people are not happy about Trump tweet calling wearing masks 'patriotic').
On some other issues he flip-flops but has shown tremendous consistency when it comes to putting Americans First by way of supporting their warp speed vaccination A$AP:

Dec. 11, 2020
Trump White House orders FDA chief to authorize Pfizer vaccine Friday or submit his resignation

White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on Friday told Stephen Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, to submit his resignation if the agency does not clear the nation’s first coronavirus vaccine by day’s end, according to people familiar with the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss what happened.
The threat came on the same day that President Trump tweeted that the FDA is “a big, old, slow turtle” in its handling of vaccines, while exhorting Commissioner Stephen Hahn to “get the dam vaccines out NOW.” He added: “Stop playing games and start saving lives!!!”

Trump administration: Employers can require workers to get COVID-19 vaccine

China must be held accountable for unleashing plague of 'China virus' onto the world: Trump
22 Sep 2020

How Trump uses blood libel rhetoric against ‘invisible enemy’
April 20, 2020
Once we OPEN UP OUR GREAT COUNTRY, and it will be sooner rather than later, the horror of the Invisible Enemy, except for those that sadly lost a family member or friend, must be quickly forgotten. Our Economy will BOOM, perhaps like never before!!!— Donald J. Trump April 8, 2020
forward.com/culture/444275/how-trump-uses-blood-libel-rhetoric-against-invisible-enemy/


Trump just knee-capped Georgia Governor Kemp for not following strict CDC lockdown guidelines
Niles Edward Francis
@NilesGApol
· 3h
Police cars revolving light
#BREAKING: President Trump says that he told Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp that he disagrees "strongly" with his decision to open up certain businesses at the end of this week. #gapol #Coronavirus

I think will make all other rep governors think long and hard about opening up

 

[Invisible Man]

AGAIN, explain the SCIENTIFIC reason a psychiatrist who must be a MEDICAL DOCTOR FIRST is SCIENTIFICALLY prevented from giving medical scientific opinions.

He's not prevented from giving his opinions on those matters, just like you aren't prevented either.

But do you find it at all odd that you are not able to find anybody at all with specialized expertise in studying viruses who claims that the SARS COV 2 virus has never been isolated? The only people you can find claiming that are not experts on the subject. And when you are given sources that really are experts on the subject, you discount them because they don't agree with the assertions of people who aren't.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The thread title is misleading because it implies that the "maskless bash" was blamed for the congressman-elect getting COVID when it's actually two separate stories.

Anyway there's got to be better ways to protest government overreach than not wearing masks and spreading COVID.

If you think cloth masks stop a microscopic virus, I have a boat with a screen door as the bottom to sell you.

 

[Contumacious]

He's not prevented from giving his opinions on those matters, just like you aren't prevented either.

But do you find it at all odd that you are not able to find anybody at all with specialized expertise in studying viruses who claims that the SARS COV 2 virus has never been isolated? The only people you can find claiming that are not experts on the subject. And when you are given sources that really are experts on the subject, you discount them because they don't agree with the assertions of people who aren't.

YOU TRUNCATED POST #73 in order to make that asinine allegation.


In Belgium the medical community is not being censored yet , and APPLYING KOCH'S POSTULATES challenge face masks, social distancing and the claim that there is a pandemic.



By the way the same has been done by medical doctors in Germany and Bulgaria !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




.

 

[Invisible Man]

YOU TRUNCATED POST #73 in order to make that asinine allegation.

Unless you can back up your claims with something better than finding other non-experts who repeat the same assertions you're making, then it's not asinine.

The ball's in your court.

 

[Madison320]

I assume that's because that's not a question here. It's taken for granted that it doesn't.

I would hope that was the case however it's not. Like I said, about half the people on RPF think the govt should forcibly intervene if a business owner wanted to require a covid vaccination for his employees.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?551077-Should-businesses-be-allowed-to-require-a-covid-vaccine

 

[Invisible Man]

I would hope that was the case however it's not. Like I said, about half the people on RPF think the govt should forcibly intervene if a business owner wanted to require a covid vaccination for his employees.

Good point. I wonder how many of the people who voted that way are trolls who joined in 2016 to help campaign for Trump.