Congressman-elect dies of Covid; GOP Leader Who Was Hospitalized Blames Trump’s Maskless Bash

[pcosmar]

I also reiterate my earlier question to you:
What does it mean to isolate a virus?

To prove it's definitive existence and Characteristics .

The Common Cold is a Novel Corona Virus.

Covid-19 is Politicized Propaganda... a Name to Fear.

 

[pcosmar]

I guess now Known Congenital Heart Defects, and related Fatal attacks are Covid.

 

[Anti-Neocon]

Freedom is something you have, not something the government can take and subsequently return, if you're a good boy.
You sound like a teen who's been grounded.

I'm sorry but most of us live in states with people who hate freedom, not some libertarian islands. Part of winning the battle for more freedom is by not looking like an idiot advocating for it and giving justification to take away our freedom.

Not a damned one of those is required to get your freedom back. The only thing you are doing is participating in the fear porn. Disgusting.

Again, you can choose to live in a fantasy where not wanting to cause more people dying is "fear porn". But regardless, as people continue to die and get sick from something that'd be a lot less severe if we just did our parts by not spreading the disease, other people who haven't died get scared. And with that fear comes a thirst for statism.

 

[BSWPaulsen]

Again, you can choose to live in a fantasy where not wanting to cause more people dying is "fear porn". But regardless, as people continue to die and get sick from something that'd be a lot less severe if we just did our parts by not spreading the disease, other people who haven't died get scared. And with that fear comes a thirst for statism.

I already had it. It was no different from a common cold in its effects on me. Healthy people have no reason to be overly concerned and to give credence to the fear porn the likes of your ilk is engaged in. If people are afraid of contracting it, then they can choose to stay home and avoid living.

Let people get the disease. Let the species endure it and come out the other end more resilient. Yes, some people will die. Increased risk of death is associated with freedom and shirking that reality allows for the spread of statism. You are only aiding the infantilization of people by abetting the notion that living can be made safe for the unthinking morons if only everyone were forced to obey the holy face diaper and vaccine.

You are physically and mentally weak.

 

[Anti-Neocon]

I already had it. It was no different from a common cold in its effects on me. Healthy people have no reason to be overly concerned and to give credence to the fear porn the likes of your ilk is engaged in. If people are afraid of contracting it, then they can choose to stay home and avoid living.

Let people get the disease. Let the species endure it and come out the other end more resilient. Yes, some people will die. Increased risk of death is associated with freedom and shirking that reality allows for the spread of statism. You are only aiding the infantilization of people by abetting the notion that living can be made safe for the unthinking morons if only everyone were forced to obey the holy face diaper and vaccine.

You are physically and mentally weak.

It seems like you care more about freedom from responsibility than freedom from government. If I'm not in on your COVID Darwinism plan it makes me weak, got it.

I don't care if one person such as yourself is fine. Hundreds of thousands of people died and way more survived with lasting complications. This didn't need to happen to the degree that it did and the more people who take precautions not to spread the disease the less people that will die, and the less likely the general population will want to force things like mandatory vaccines.

But yeah if you want to kill off the weak by spreading the virus you aren't going to get sympathy from me for that viewpoint.

 

[RJ Liberty]

I already had it. It was no different from a common cold in its effects on me. Healthy people have no reason to be overly concerned and to give credence to the fear porn the likes of your ilk is engaged in. If people are afraid of contracting it, then they can choose to stay home and avoid living.

Let people get the disease. Let the species endure it and come out the other end more resilient. Yes, some people will die. Increased risk of death is associated with freedom and shirking that reality allows for the spread of statism. You are only aiding the infantilization of people by abetting the notion that living can be made safe for the unthinking morons if only everyone were forced to obey the holy face diaper and vaccine.

You are physically and mentally weak.

Sorry, BSW, I have great respect for you, but I completely disagree.

Both of my parents, in their late 60s/early 70s, are in high risk categories for Covid: Dad has heart conditions and Mom has serious lung issues. All my aunts and uncles, with one younger exception, are between age 65 and 90. The idea that we should just let people die because they're weak is cruel and pretty unnecessary. We don't live in the 1700s when this was common practice: Western Civilization is better than that, and our country became a beacon for the world because of things like advancements in medical care. We're not a Third World country where the sick are just written off.

I wear a mask because I don't want to spread Covid to my family. This doesn't make someone "physically and mentally weak". It just shows respect and caution for people who wouldn't otherwise survive an epidemic. If I have to wear a mask for the 30 minutes I'm in a store, that's no big deal.

I do have a huge problem with the business shutdowns. In my area of AZ, the economy had never fully recovered from the 2008 economic crisis. The 2020 shutdown sent many mom and pop businesses over the edge. A sensible mask solution back in March/April here could have kept these businesses open.

 

[XNavyNuke]

I attended a wake a couple of months ago for someone in their 20s who died while getting his wisdom teeth removed. I knew another guy many years ago who died in his early 30s while getting a vasectomy. It is an everyday occurrence. There’s a reason they have you sign paperwork before every procedure acknowledging that it may kill you.

Bottom line is they are using COVID as an excuse.

Yep.

My stepdad died from a complication of a relatively minor surgery a few years back.

XNN

 

[Invisible Man]

uhhh.... any chance we can run a liberty-leaning republican for this seat?

Great thought.

Is @torchbearer still around? He might have some ideas.

There was also a big activist in 2008 from Louisiana. I don't know how active he was on this website, but he told me he frequented here, at least to read, if not to post. I knew him from what was then the main Ron Paul Facebook group. He was a contributor to a website called Independent Political Report, writing articles about third parties, in his case mainly the Constitution and Libertarian Parties. For the life of me I can't remember his name. But he's another guy who, if he still lives in Louisiana, I would expect to have good ideas. Somebody here might be able to remember his name.

 

[Contumacious]

Notice the following points:

1. That quote is not just from the CDC in July of 2020, but rather that CDC document is citing an earlier study in which that claim was made. So the operative date is the date of the earlier study.

2. Even that quote does not claim that no COVID 19 isolates yet existed at that time, just that they weren't available to the authors the CDC was quoting at they time they wrote it. COVID 19 isolates aren't available to me either, right now, sitting at my desk. But you wouldn't be warranted in concluding that because they're not available to me they must not exist anywhere at all.

3. Even if those prior authors had been claiming that no COVID 19 isolates existed yet, their words couldn't be taken as proof that none existed, only that they believed that. They could simply be wrong, in which case counter-evidence such as the link you were provided should be taken into account.

4. Even if it had been the case that no COVID 19 isolates existed in July, that would not prove that they still didn't exist now.

5. That exact CDC document has been updated multiple times since July, as you can see via a simple Google search for it, so why rely on the outdated one, rather than the up-to-date one?

6. Even if it were the case that no isolates of COVID 19 had yet been developed, that would not support the conclusion that we were lacking in proof of the virus's existence. Obviously there are many ways to prove the virus exists aside from developing an isolate of it, and indeed, no isolates of it could be attained or even sought after until after it was already proven to exist by other simpler means.

I also reiterate my earlier question to you:
What does it mean to isolate a virus?

B U L L S H I T


As of today (December 1, 2020) 39 institutions/offices have provided their responses, and in total these responses have yielded zero records, or citations of records, describing the isolation/purification of a “SARS-COV-2 virus” from a diseased patient, by anyone, anywhere, ever. All 39 of these FOIs responses can be accessed at the following link, along with a compilation pdf containing 38 of them: https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/fois-reveal-that-health-science-institutions-around-the-world-have-no-record-of-sars-cov-2-isolation-purification/



ZERO Evidence that COVID Fulfills Koch's 4 Germ Theory Postulates - Dr. Andrew Kaufman



.

 

[BSWPaulsen]

It seems like you care more about freedom from responsibility than freedom from government. If I'm not in on your COVID Darwinism plan it makes me weak, got it.

I don't care if one person such as yourself is fine. Hundreds of thousands of people died and way more survived with lasting complications. This didn't need to happen to the degree that it did and the more people who take precautions not to spread the disease the less people that will die, and the less likely the general population will want to force things like mandatory vaccines.

But yeah if you want to kill off the weak by spreading the virus you aren't going to get sympathy from me for that viewpoint.

It appears we agree on your weakness - at least we have some common ground. Also, see the bolded part of your post: that is the mindset that permeates every single "there ought to be a law" person out there. You are the enabler. You are the problem.

Holding the healthy population hostage in order to maybe save those people (assuming some other cause does not kill them) is abhorrent. Never mind the lives of those healthy individuals being ruined by the lockdowns needed to "slow the spread". All you are doing is saving the unhealthy at the cost of healthy people's lives. You talk of responsibility, but then ignore that everyone is responsible for their own health. You are sure as hell no moral beacon for your stance.

Sorry, BSW, I have great respect for you, but I completely disagree.

Both of my parents, in their late 60s/early 70s, are in high risk categories for Covid: Dad has heart conditions and Mom has serious lung issues. All my aunts and uncles, with one younger exception, are between age 65 and 90. The idea that we should just let people die because they're weak is cruel and pretty unnecessary. We don't live in the 1700s when this was common practice: Western Civilization is better than that, and our country became a beacon for the world because of things like advancements in medical care. We're not a Third World country where the sick are just written off.

They can stay home. That is the single best thing they can do to save themselves. If you are so concerned about them, then take care of them and minimize their contact with the outside world until enough people have obtained immunity. Ultimately, they are responsible for taking the actions needed to increase their chances of survival. You can help them. What cannot be done in the name of liberty is participating in the pathologizing of the fear surrounding the virus to such an extent that the lives of the healthy are ruined to save them.

I wear a mask because I don't want to spread Covid to my family. This doesn't make someone "physically and mentally weak". It just shows respect and caution for people who wouldn't otherwise survive an epidemic. If I have to wear a mask for the 30 minutes I'm in a store, that's no big deal.

That is fine you are wearing it with your family. However, if people are so damned scared of it, then it begs the question: why are they in the store at all? You are supposedly wearing the mask in a store for other people that have chosen to place themselves at risk. Whether you like it or not, wearing that mask in a store is an act directly abetting the fear porn.

I do have a huge problem with the business shutdowns. In my area of AZ, the economy had never fully recovered from the 2008 economic crisis. The 2020 shutdown sent many mom and pop businesses over the edge. A sensible mask solution back in March/April here could have kept these businesses open.

The only "sensible mask solution" was no mask solution. That was the way to keep those businesses alive. Anything else is playing a game of hindsight with no supporting evidence. Failure to understand that does nothing more than piss on the people whose lives were ruined by the shutdown and guarantees it happens again.

 

[RJ Liberty]

B U L L S H I T


As of today (December 1, 2020) 39 institutions/offices have provided their responses, and in total these responses have yielded zero records, or citations of records, describing the isolation/purification of a “SARS-COV-2 virus” from a diseased patient, by anyone, anywhere, ever. All 39 of these FOIs responses can be accessed at the following link, along with a compilation pdf containing 38 of them: https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/fois-reveal-that-health-science-institutions-around-the-world-have-no-record-of-sars-cov-2-isolation-purification/



ZERO Evidence that COVID Fulfills Koch's 4 Germ Theory Postulates - Dr. Andrew Kaufman

Dr. Andrew Kaufman is a psychiatrist. The page that you link to sources someone named "Michael S." What are these people's credentials in infectious diseases? Sorry, but I'm not going to see a shrink if I get a cold or flu.

The site you link to has the full letter which states the virus "is not isolated in the way you describe", which is far different than "the virus has not been isolated".

 

[Contumacious]

Dr. Andrew Kaufman is a psychiatrist. The page that you link to sources someone named "Michael S." What are these people's credentials in infectious diseases? Sorry, but I'm not going to see a shrink if I get a cold or flu.

The site you link to has the full letter which states the virus "is not isolated in the way you describe", which is far different than "the virus has not been isolated".

You must first be an MD before becoming a psychiatrist.

Identify a SCIENTIFIC ENTITY which has adopted a standard which is not included in Koch's 4 Germ Theory Postulates -

Specifically when were Koch's postulates abandoned.



.

 

[Anti-Neocon]

It appears we agree on your weakness - at least we have some common ground. Also, see the bolded part of your post: that is the mindset that permeates every single "there ought to be a law" person out there. You are the enabler. You are the problem.

Holding the healthy population hostage in order to maybe save those people (assuming some other cause does not kill them) is abhorrent. Never mind the lives of those healthy individuals being ruined by the lockdowns needed to "slow the spread". All you are doing is saving the unhealthy at the cost of healthy people's lives. You talk of responsibility, but then ignore that everyone is responsible for their own health. You are sure as hell no moral beacon for your stance.

Reality does not conform to your view of responsibility which is ultimately the problem. People die all the time from others' actions in completely avoidable ways. Not just murder but negligent acts such as drunk driving or spreading COVID.

It seems like in defending your dogma you are turning me into the devil in your own mind. I'm not really doing any of this stuff that you're talking about.

They can stay home. That is the single best thing they can do to save themselves. If you are so concerned about them, then take care of them and minimize their contact with the outside world until enough people have obtained immunity. Ultimately, they are responsible for taking the actions needed to increase their chances of survival. You can help them. What cannot be done in the name of liberty is participating in the pathologizing of the fear surrounding the virus to such an extent that the lives of the healthy are ruined to save them.

If we all do our part and minimize contact then there also would be less COVID and public fear would be minimized. I'm using my free speech to try to convince people to do things that mitigate the spreading of COVID.

Japan and South Korea, to date, have not imposed any lockdowns like we have here in the states and that is due to the public feeling responsible for the health of the public and voluntarily working together to stop the spread.

That is fine you are wearing it with your family. However, if people are so damned scared of it, then it begs the question: why are they in the store at all? You are supposedly wearing the mask in a store for other people that have chosen to place themselves at risk. Whether you like it or not, wearing that mask in a store is an act directly abetting the fear porn.

I think people should generally be minimizing store trips and wearing masks at all times in public as an act of charity as well as setting an example.

You love using the phrase "fear porn" to describe situations involving awareness of reality. I always thought of fear porn is a specific phenomenon where people are addicted to being scared of things so they can pretend to find meaning in life. The problem with COVID is unlike the stuff about mass shooters or Muslims or voter fraud, it's a real phenomenon that is killing people and maybe the MSM has already cried wolf too many times for people to take it seriously but that doesn't mean we shouldn't. Because when 300,000 people die instead of 100,000 people, that's 200,000 people that shouldn't have, and everyone not taking precautions shares some responsibility for creating this situation.

The only "sensible mask solution" was no mask solution. That was the way to keep those businesses alive. Anything else is playing a game of hindsight with no supporting evidence. Failure to understand that does nothing more than piss on the people whose lives were ruined by the shutdown and guarantees it happens again.

If your goal is to accomplish the exact opposite of what you say your goal is (to "keep those businesses alive") then don't wear a mask. It does seem like you care more about businesses than what you consider to be "weak" people but whatever I'll overlook that. More not wearing masks = more COVID spreading = more fear = more shutdowns. It's not that complicated unless you want to deny reality.

 

[BSWPaulsen]

Reality does not conform to your view of responsibility which is ultimately the problem. People die all the time from others' actions in completely avoidable ways. Not just murder but negligent acts such as drunk driving or spreading COVID.

Living involves risk. Living freely involves more risk. I am responsible for my health, and you are responsible for yours. Transmitting what amounts to a cold to me is not equivalent to acts such as drunk driving, and logic like that is a slippery slope ending in disaster.

If we all do our part and minimize contact then there also would be less COVID and public fear would be minimized. I'm using my free speech to try to convince people to do things that mitigate the spreading of COVID.

Public fear is maximized through believing in propaganda. The virus is no meaningful threat to the vast majority of humanity. The sooner the healthy population gets it and conquers it, the faster herd immunity is reached. You are doing a great job at using your free speech to aid tyrants, but I suppose the term "useful idiot" exists for a reason.

I think people should generally be minimizing store trips and wearing masks at all times in public as an act of charity as well as setting an example.

I think individuals should do what they feel necessary and proper for themselves and mind their own damn business outside of that. If you want to "set an example" by being the living embodiment of weakness, then have at it.

You love using the phrase "fear porn" to describe situations involving awareness of reality. I always thought of fear porn is a specific phenomenon where people are addicted to being scared of things so they can pretend to find meaning in life. The problem with COVID is unlike the stuff about mass shooters or Muslims or voter fraud, it's a real phenomenon that is killing people and maybe the MSM has already cried wolf too many times for people to take it seriously but that doesn't mean we shouldn't. Because when 300,000 people die instead of 100,000 people, that's 200,000 people that shouldn't have, and everyone not taking precautions shares some responsibility for creating this situation.

There are quite a few people addicted to COVID. It occupies their minds and guides their actions. They are terrified of an invisible force they cannot control, and that terror stimulates them in ways they never knew before. A docile population that has grown fat and lazy has come to relearn fear and love it.

If your goal is to accomplish the exact opposite of what you say your goal is (to "keep those businesses alive") then don't wear a mask. It does seem like you care more about businesses than what you consider to be "weak" people but whatever I'll overlook that. More not wearing masks = more COVID spreading = more fear = more shutdowns. It's not that complicated unless you want to deny reality.

Businesses are the means by which people sustain their lives. You are damn right I care about their continuation more than people of poor health being safeguarded through asinine means. Collapsed economies can quickly kill more people than COVID is capable of.

COVID needs to spread, and the healthy need to beat it. Let me repeat that: I advocate for COVID to spread through as much of the population as possible. If anyone has risk factors that indicate they should not contract it, then they need to barricade themselves in their houses and take every necessary precaution to avoid it.

It will pass. If it does not, then it becomes like having another influenza virus hanging around. Life has to go on, and this infantilized notion that people need to alter their behavior to save everyone is a mindset born of extreme weakness.

 

[pcosmar]

I wear a mask because I don't want to spread Covid to my family.

Complete Bull Excrement and You can smear that on your face. as a badge of honor.

Do you prefer the lumpy or greasy Bull crap on your face?

Because of course you have worn masks for every Cold you have has since childhood..


or have you never grown out of it?

 

[RJ Liberty]

Complete Bull Excrement and You can smear that on your face. as a badge of honor.

Do you prefer the lumpy or greasy Bull crap on your face?

Because of course you have worn masks for every Cold you have has since childhood..

Covid-19 is no ordinary cold.

 

[RJ Liberty]

You must first be an MD before becoming a psychiatrist.

If you're going to a psychiatrist for advice on viruses, you need to see a shrink.

And you haven't explained who "Michael S." is. Why should anyone here be taking medical advice from a guy with no last name?

Identify a SCIENTIFIC ENTITY which has adopted a standard which is not included in Koch's 4 Germ Theory Postulates -

Specifically when were Koch's postulates abandoned.

It's my understanding that Koch's postulates were supplanted by Hill's criteria for causation several decades ago, but I don't know much about it. I listen to my doctor and my wife's doctor, and they say the same thing: be wary of anonymous sources giving medical advice on the Internet, especially when those sources have a political agenda. Right now, the hospitals in my state are overflowing with Covid patients in the ICUs.

 

[RJ Liberty]

They can stay home. That is the single best thing they can do to save themselves. If you are so concerned about them, then take care of them and minimize their contact with the outside world until enough people have obtained immunity. Ultimately, they are responsible for taking the actions needed to increase their chances of survival. You can help them. What cannot be done in the name of liberty is participating in the pathologizing of the fear surrounding the virus to such an extent that the lives of the healthy are ruined to save them.

I'm sorry, BSW. I've got huge respect for you and I've always felt as though you walked the walk and talked the talk when it has come to the liberty movement.

But the idea that my parents, or anyone else, could just "stay home" for a year or more is crazy. It's naive because my parents still have to venture out in the world, at the very least for doctors' appointments (teledoc appointments only go so far), pharmacy pick-ups, and to get necessities I can't always bring them. And the idea that as many as 82 million Americans should just "stay home" so that 268 million Americans don't have to worry is overly simplistic.

I mentioned this tonight, after dinner, at my parents' house. My dad laughed as he grabbed his motorcycle helmet and headed out. No one's gonna impinge on his liberties by telling him to "stay home".

 

[BSWPaulsen]

I'm sorry, BSW. I've got huge respect for you and I've always felt as though you walked the walk and talked the talk when it has come to the liberty movement.

If our paths ever cross (and they well might as we are both Arizonans), then food is on me. Disagreements are natural, and I harbor no ill will over them. Steel sharpens steel.

But the idea that my parents, or anyone else, could just "stay home" for a year or more is crazy. It's naive because my parents still have to venture out in the world, at the very least for doctors' appointments (teledoc appointments only go so far), pharmacy pick-ups, and to get necessities I can't always bring them. And the idea that as many as 82 million Americans should just "stay home" so that 268 million Americans don't have to worry is overly simplistic.

Indeed, eventually everyone must take some of the risks associated with living. My hyperbole (to the degree it was hyperbole) was primarily meant to emphasize that at-risk people should be using every available avenue to stay safe. Other than that, the virus needs to get around so that herd immunity is established faster. The at-risk are not being aided by slowing the process unless one really believes a vaccine will solve the problem altogether. I do not believe any vaccine will demonstrate efficacy beyond that of the flu virus vaccine, so one can easily understand where I am coming from on this. It is also worth pointing out that many more millions of Americans are at risk from the economic issues associated with incompetent leaders ordering lockdowns, so time is of the essence.

I mentioned this tonight, after dinner, at my parents' house. My dad laughed as he grabbed his motorcycle helmet and headed out. No one's gonna impinge on his liberties by telling him to "stay home".

Good. Your dad has the right spirit. Every American worth his salt should reject anyone telling them to do anything they think is against their self-interest. I applaud every single soul that recognizes the risks in trying to live a meaningful life. What he chooses to do is his choice, and it makes me smile to know his spirit is free.

 

[Invisible Man]

As of today (December 1, 2020) 39 institutions/offices have provided their responses, and in total these responses have yielded zero records, or citations of records, describing the isolation/purification of a “SARS-COV-2 virus” from a diseased patient, by anyone, anywhere, ever.

I haven't seen 49. I only saw that one attempt in post #6 and it yielded a result. You never bothered to counter that evidence. As of now, we're one for one, and the ball's still in your court to counter that one. Do you have any actual evidence to the contrary, and not just assertions?

If one is not enough here, check this out:
http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=sars+cov+2+virus+isolate

Your reply to me also doesn't address a single one of the 6 points I made. My 6th point in particular undermines your entire argument. You focus on isolating the virus as if you think we wouldn't have proof that the virus existed unless we had isolates of it. We have actual pictures of it from electron microscopes that anyone can look up and see. Isolating a virus and proving it exists are two separate things. What's the point of wasting all this time debating about all the technical articles out there about isolations of the virus that have been made, given that that's the case?