"Come to Jesus" meeting with the Rand Paul supporters. Have you forgotten?

[eleganz]

So called is right because it's not the same liberty message that drew me to Ron Paul. I'm not saying he hasn't made inroads. My comment that you quoted was in regard to the fact that some on this board informed us that our help wasn't needed if we insisted on supporting the Ron Paul style of liberty. As for Ron's way not working...he had a ton of support from the grassroots. Not so much from some in his campaign. It's not me making this up. Look at the member numbers on this site. You lost a lot of people by trying to shut us out initially because some of you were so afraid we would show up with megaphones shouting 9-11 was an inside job or something. Sorry..just the way it appears. Maybe y'all need to decide what you want.

Let me ask you again, are you not happy that Rand is bringing more people into the coalition that Ron built?

If you are not happy and wish for things to go back the way they were then you may have to accept electoral losses while preaching to the choir for eternity.

If you are happy, then I'm happy for you.

Either way, there is nothing really further to discuss.

 

[The Rebel Poet]

Damn!

Just to add one point to that, there's the thing about peaking at the right time. I'm sure Rand could unload all he has, stir up controversy, and invade the news cycle. But people would get bored and move on to the next thing. The trick is to do it RIGHT before IOWA.

I was going to say exactly that but you beat me to it. Trump has a lot of support, but it is shallow, and it will fade most likely.

Still, Rand has had a lot of measurable problems this summer. His favorability ratings have sunk, in fact, he's got negative favorability right now. And he has seen his poll numbers sink from around 15% to around 5. These are real problems.

I have been seeing A LOT of sadness, confusion, and anger over the last few weeks regarding Rand's current campaign. This is mostly over poll numbers, Rand's financing, trump's poll number explosion, Rand's lack of coverage, etc. I am beginning to wonder if you guys forgot about the last few elections...

We knew from the beginning, or at least I thought I did, that Rand would get no help from the media. It is so obvious that the media, even democratic media, is covering every little thing that trump does on purpose. Trump has yet to even begin to talk about policies except for immigration. Guys Trump has name recognition. Bush has name recognition. That is a large reason they are polling so high right now. Rudy Giuliani anyone??? National polls that have trump over 20 percent don't mean anything! Nor do they express willingness to actually vote.

Have you forgotten how Ron polled??? For example, in NH, Ron polled at 6 percent in the beginning of June 2011 from a New Hampshire University poll. Ron finished at 23 percent on election day. Ron polled anywhere from 3 percent(lol) to 7, 8, in June of 2011 in Iowa. On election day Ron got 21.5 percent. These people they are polling are often not even likely voters nor do they represent the electorate correctly. A recent poll from Iowa had the youth vote misrepresented by 10 percent according to the 2012 election which Ron and Rand dominate! And this year Iowa students will be in school during the caucus so that number should rise even more. These recent polls also cannot take into account our willingness to vote in a caucus and on a freezing night without hesitation. These polls also don't take into account all of the new young voters who are now old enough to vote. We have another 4 years of young adults ready to fight. The bottom line on this is that if Rand were to merely keep the votes from 2012, we have an amazing shot to win BOTH NH and Iowa...

The debates have yet to start. When the debates start things will begin to fall in place. Wait until Trump calls out walker for supporting amnesty. Wait until Rand begins to have his policies up against the rest of the field. Things will change rapidly. To those who believe Rand won't defend himself or debate "like trump" go back and watch his debates with Conway for senate. Ron NEVER got that feisty. Rand is a much better speaker and debater than Ron.

All of the stories being printed about Rand's "failing campaign" are done on purpose... You guys should know this! "Rand only got 7 million dollars!!!" (they forgot to mention him being close to the top of the field with small donations). This is meant to demoralize you. It didn't work against Ron and it won't work now. Please guys step it up. We are going to need the fight we had in 2012. If Rand doesn't motivate you as much, then remember those who are supporting him. Amash, Massie, Ron, etc. This isn't about Rand anyway! This is about the liberty movement and the constitution.

Guys we are doing great right now. Iowa and NH. Iowa and NH. IOWA and NH is all that matters right now. We have the best ground game in those two states. That will not change. Hang in there and get ready for the debate next week.

This is all true, but success wasn't magical. Ron's numbers were getting better and better leading up to these results. Rand's numbers have been getting worse and worse with a steady consistency. We have to make it happen, and waiting around for lightning to strike is not enough.

 

[Carlybee]

Let me ask you again, are you not happy that Rand is bringing more people into the coalition that Ron built?

If you are not happy and wish for things to go back the way they were then you may have to accept electoral losses while preaching to the choir for eternity.

If you are happy, then I'm happy for you.

Either way, there is nothing really further to discuss.

The intention may have been great but I can't see much change in the Republican Party. The very small coalition with the exception of a few have flip flopped and voted just the way the establishment in Congress wanted them to on some issues. If it's so great where is the support and excitement that followed Ron everywhere he went? Face it...when the campaign decided to throw away Ron's base because we were too wacky and may have tainted Rand's run, they alienated a lot of people. We were told by people on here that we had to accept every nuance out there..that it was a marathon not a sprint, that it was chess not checkers and basically to sit back and shut up...which is basically what you just did in the last sentence of your response. So having a "Come to Jesus" meeting with people who wanted to help and be involved but have been shushed, marginalized and expected to be mind readers every step along the way is kind of pointless. I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't vent like this in this forum but to be told some of us aren't doing enough when we were told not to do anything but shut up and don't make waves is pretty incredible. Not to mention, I don't see the official campaign reaching out to the grassroots except for 20 emails a day asking for money. There was the potential to enlist thousands of supporters on this forum.
When you tell someone "There's really nothing further to discuss"... Well okay... You don't have to hit me with a brick.

 

[cajuncocoa]

The intention may have been great but I can't see much change in the Republican Party. The very small coalition with the exception of a few have flip flopped and voted just the way the establishment in Congress wanted them to on some issues. If it's so great where is the support and excitement that followed Ron everywhere he went? Face it...when the campaign decided to throw away Ron's base because we were too wacky and may have tainted Rand's run, they alienated a lot of people. We were told by people on here that we had to accept every nuance out there..that it was a marathon not a sprint, that it was chess not checkers and basically to sit back and shut up...which is basically what you just did in the last sentence of your response. So having a "Come to Jesus" meeting with people who wanted to help and be involved but have been shushed, marginalized and expected to be mind readers every step along the way is kind of pointless. I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't vent like this in this forum but to be told some of us aren't doing enough when we were told not to do anything but shut up and don't make waves is pretty incredible. Not to mention, I don't see the official campaign reaching out to the grassroots except for 20 emails a day asking for money. There was the potential to enlist thousands of supporters on this forum.
When you tell someone "There's really nothing further to discuss"... Well okay... You don't have to hit me with a brick.

 

[Badger Paul]

Do you not remember who was it that recommended us to use the GOP as a vehicle? I'll give you one guess and one hint to go with it. R.P. Also, if you feel like appealing to the GOP is so useless for electoral success then I have a website for you to visit.
www.lewrockwell.com

He recommended the Republican Party because after spending time in Non-Major Party land he realized how much easier it was to gather signatures when you have an organization who hire people to do so and you don't need as many. But that did not mean taking the party line on every question as you full well know. If he did, he would have been just another Republican Congressman from Texas.

Yes I know all about Lew Rockwell.com and I stopped reading it after they lost all touch with reality.

You know it's funny. Donald Trump calls out Charles Krauthammer and Lindsey Graham and John McCain and leads in the polls. I wanted the Pauls to call out this trio of scum for years but we were told "Oh no, we can't do that, we might alienate people in the party." Right, now we know what people in the party really feels about the three f'ing stooges. Another case of bad timing and missing one's chance.

I've got news for you. This is a campaign. And campaigns are about division. There's only one prize and no one is going to give it to you. You got to take it from others who want it too. What are you going to do, ask nicely? No! It doesn't work like that. The reason Ron sparked a movement because he didn't back down when he told the truth to Rudy Guliani or slink away trying to explain himself. The Paul Revolution at its essential heart was about ripping away the levers of power from the establishment i.e. the neocons, the militarists, the bankers, the crony capitalists and Conservative INC. and giving it back to the people. You think that just happens? No! They're going to fight you tooth and nail and if you're not prepared for that battle then you don' t do it. Don't waste people's time!

If you decide to join the battle, then you lay out the truth and if that offends some geriatric exurban commuter who listens to Limbaugh or Levine in their gated mansion living off their government pension, so be it. I'm tired of these racist scumbags sending other people's kids off to war and railing against Medicade while their Medicare pays for their viagara. Fuck them! They deserve to have power taken away from the hypocrites! That's what the Revolution was set-up to be against. It's Revolution for crying out loud, not an estate sale!

I'd take over their party, no worse than Barry Goldwater or Ronald Reagan or even Newt Gingrich doing the same damn thing. They can either join us or suffer under the tender mercies of Hilary Clinton, their choice. You have a problem with that? Because if you do, then's there's no point to this. And unless Rand figures it out and gets that fire back that at least Ron had at the beginning, he's just going to embarass himself. I know Ron was more interested in sending a message than being President. Rand was supposed to be the one who did want to be President with the same message. Is that still true? Somebody in the campaign better ask the question before its too late.

 

[Carlybee]

Do you not remember who was it that recommended us to use the GOP as a vehicle? I'll give you one guess and one hint to go with it. R.P. Also, if you feel like appealing to the GOP is so useless for electoral success then I have a website for you to visit.
www.lewrockwell.com

He recommended the Republican Party because after spending time in Non-Major Party land he realized how much easier it was to gather signatures when you have an organization who hire people to do so and you don't need as many. But that did not mean taking the party line on every question as you full well know. If he did, he would have been just another Republican Congressman from Texas.

Yes I know all about Lew Rockwell.com and I stopped reading it after they lost all touch with reality.

You know it's funny. Donald Trump calls out Charles Krauthammer and Lindsey Graham and John McCain and leads in the polls. I wanted the Pauls to call out this trio of scum for years but we were told "Oh no, we can't do that, we might alienate people in the party." Right, now we know what people in the party really feels about the three f'ing stooges. Another case of bad timing and missing one's chance.

I've got news for you. This is a campaign. And campaigns are about division. There's only one prize and no one is going to give it to you. You got to take it from others who want it too. What are you going to do, ask nicely? No! It doesn't work like that. The reason Ron sparked a movement because he didn't back down when he told the truth to Rudy Guliani or slink away trying to explain himself. The Paul Revolution at its essential heart was about ripping away the levers of power from the establishment i.e. the neocons, the militarists, the bankers, the crony capitalists and Conservative INC. and giving it back to the people. You think that just happens? No! They're going to fight you tooth and nail and if you're not prepared for that battle then you don' t do it. Don't waste people's time!

If you decide to join the battle, then you lay out the truth and if that offends some geriatric exurban commuter who listens to Limbaugh or Levine in their gated mansion living off their government pension, so be it. I'm tired of these racist scumbags sending other people's kids off to war and railing against Medicade while their Medicare pays for their viagara. Fuck them! They deserve to have power taken away from the hypocrites! That's what the Revolution was set-up to be against. It's Revolution for crying out loud, not an estate sale!

I'd take over their party, no worse than Barry Goldwater or Ronald Reagan or even Newt Gingrich doing the same damn thing. They can either join us or suffer under the tender mercies of Hilary Clinton, their choice. You have a problem with that? Because if you do, then's there's no point to this. And unless Rand figures it out and gets that fire back that at least Ron had at the beginning, he's just going to embarass himself. I know Ron was more interested in sending a message than being President. Rand was supposed to be the one who did want to be President with the same message. Is that still true? Somebody in the campaign better ask the question before its too late.

Hard to take over the party when you have to suck up to McConnell and when someone like John Bohner has the power and continues to be given power to do what he does. There is no taking over the party with what...maybe 10 or 15 legislators who actually care about liberty and the rest of the party acting like closet liberals?

 

[Badger Paul]

"Hard to take over the party when you have to suck up to McConnell and when someone like John Bohner has the power and continues to be given power to do what he does."

Doesn't seem like the "suck-up" strategy is working too well right now.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Do you not remember who was it that recommended us to use the GOP as a vehicle? I'll give you one guess and one hint to go with it. R.P. Also, if you feel like appealing to the GOP is so useless for electoral success then I have a website for you to visit.
www.lewrockwell.com

He recommended the Republican Party because after spending time in Non-Major Party land he realized how much easier it was to gather signatures when you have an organization who hire people to do so and you don't need as many. But that did not mean taking the party line on every question as you full well know. If he did, he would have been just another Republican Congressman from Texas.

Yes I know all about Lew Rockwell.com and I stopped reading it after they lost all touch with reality.

You know it's funny. Donald Trump calls out Charles Krauthammer and Lindsey Graham and John McCain and leads in the polls. I wanted the Pauls to call out this trio of scum for years but we were told "Oh no, we can't do that, we might alienate people in the party." Right, now we know what people in the party really feels about the three f'ing stooges. Another case of bad timing and missing one's chance.

I've got news for you. This is a campaign. And campaigns are about division. There's only one prize and no one is going to give it to you. You got to take it from others who want it too. What are you going to do, ask nicely? No! It doesn't work like that. The reason Ron sparked a movement because he didn't back down when he told the truth to Rudy Guliani or slink away trying to explain himself. The Paul Revolution at its essential heart was about ripping away the levers of power from the establishment i.e. the neocons, the militarists, the bankers, the crony capitalists and Conservative INC. and giving it back to the people. You think that just happens? No! They're going to fight you tooth and nail and if you're not prepared for that battle then you don' t do it. Don't waste people's time!

If you decide to join the battle, then you lay out the truth and if that offends some geriatric exurban commuter who listens to Limbaugh or Levine in their gated mansion living off their government pension, so be it. I'm tired of these racist scumbags sending other people's kids off to war and railing against Medicade while their Medicare pays for their viagara. Fuck them! They deserve to have power taken away from the hypocrites! That's what the Revolution was set-up to be against. It's Revolution for crying out loud, not an estate sale!

I'd take over their party, no worse than Barry Goldwater or Ronald Reagan or even Newt Gingrich doing the same damn thing. They can either join us or suffer under the tender mercies of Hilary Clinton, their choice. You have a problem with that? Because if you do, then's there's no point to this. And unless Rand figures it out and gets that fire back that at least Ron had at the beginning, he's just going to embarass himself. I know Ron was more interested in sending a message than being President. Rand was supposed to be the one who did want to be President with the same message. Is that still true? Somebody in the campaign better ask the question before its too late.

There was this constant message diehard Ron supporters were told, Carlybee suggested it in her post above....the idea that Rand had to play a game for awhile (marathon, not a sprint, etc.) Once he had the nomination he would SURPRISE everyone with his magical liberty positions! If he has anything left in that little black bag of his, I suggest he'd better pull it out now. Take a chance. Piss off the GOP establishment. It's not hurting Donald Trump now, is it?

 

[acptulsa]

There was this constant message diehard Ron supporters were told, Carlybee suggested it in her post above....the idea that Rand had to play a game for awhile (marathon, not a sprint, etc.) Once he had the nomination he would SURPRISE everyone with his magical liberty positions! If he has anything left in that little black bag of his, I suggest he'd better pull it out now. Take a chance. Piss off the GOP establishment. It's not hurting Donald Trump now, is it?

You're right. And he has. But there is also the issue of timing. The public has an attention span fifteen minutes long. So, obviously, he needs to do something like that fifteen minutes before Republicans go to the polls.

I don't think he'll wait that long. But it'll be interesting to see the first debate...

 

[cajuncocoa]

You're right. And he has. But there is also the issue of timing. The public has an attention span fifteen minutes long. So, obviously, he needs to do something like that fifteen minutes before Republicans go to the polls.

I don't think he'll wait that long. But it'll be interesting to see the first debate...

But he can't allow himself to drop so far down that he becomes almost irrelevant. This is crucial timing. His performance in that first debate will definitely be crucial. He needs to gain some momentum here, even if it may not be time to go "all in" yet.

 

[AuH20]

But he can't allow himself to drop so far down that he becomes almost irrelevant. This is crucial timing. His performance in that first debate will definitely be crucial. He needs to gain some momentum here, even if it may not be time to go "all in" yet.

The primary goal was to not get mired in the pack. It was critical to the victory solution I outlined years ago. This swan dive since May may cost the Rand Paul campaign dearly.

 

[CPUd]

He might be able to do something with the Planned Parenthood thing. Video #3 hasn't hit the front pages yet.

 

[acptulsa]

But he can't allow himself to drop so far down that he becomes almost irrelevant. This is crucial timing. His performance in that first debate will definitely be crucial. He needs to gain some momentum here, even if it may not be time to go "all in" yet.

If we set up a poll on how much speaking time he gets in the two hour debate, put me in for seven minutes.

Yeah, he pretty much needs to make them regret every second they leave his microphone on...

 

[r3volution 3.0]

There was this constant message diehard Ron supporters were told, Carlybee suggested it in her post above....the idea that Rand had to play a game for awhile (marathon, not a sprint, etc.) Once he had the nomination he would SURPRISE everyone with his magical liberty positions!

You speak as if Rand has been towing the party line thus far, which raises an important question:

Have you been paying any attention at all to what Rand has been doing?

Cutting $500 billion in spending, eliminating whole departments, the largest tax cut in history, Economic Freedom Zones, Audit the Fed, NSA spying, Patriot Act, civil forefieture, criminal justice reform, arming the Syrian rebels, the Libyan war, cutting foreign aid -- this is towing the party line in your view?

 

[The Rebel Poet]

Is that Lindsey Graham front row on the left?

 

[cajuncocoa]

You speak as if Rand has been towing the party line thus far, which raises an important question:

Have you been paying any attention at all to what Rand has been doing?

Cutting $500 billion in spending, eliminating whole departments, the largest tax cut in history, Economic Freedom Zones, Audit the Fed, NSA spying, Patriot Act, civil forefieture, criminal justice reform, arming the Syrian rebels, the Libyan war, cutting foreign aid -- this is towing the party line in your view?

Did you hear me say that he's done nothing good? No, I didn't think so. There were times when he did good things, and there were times he made some of us stare in disbelief. My post above refers to the latter times.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Is that Lindsey Graham front row on the left?

No, Lindsey is the one wearing gloves and glasses.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Did you hear me say that he's done nothing good? No, I didn't think so. There were times when he did good things, and there were times he made some of us stare in disbelief. My post above refers to the latter times.

Well, here's what you said:

There was this constant message diehard Ron supporters were told, Carlybee suggested it in her post above....the idea that Rand had to play a game for awhile (marathon, not a sprint, etc.) Once he had the nomination he would SURPRISE everyone with his magical liberty positions! If he has anything left in that little black bag of his, I suggest he'd better pull it out now. Take a chance. Piss off the GOP establishment. It's not hurting Donald Trump now, is it?

You're talking about him beginning to take liberty positions after the nomination (as if he hasn't already taken liberty positions).

 

[cajuncocoa]

Well, here's what you said:



You're talking about him beginning to take liberty positions after the nomination (as if he hasn't already taken liberty positions).

I'm repeating what we were told.

 

[The Rebel Poet]

No, Lindsey is the one wearing gloves and glasses.

No, that's definitely John Boner. Or maybe with those Glasses it's Eric Cantor - I'm not claiming to have the identity down 100%, but that can't be Mrs. Graham anyway, because it is center-right, not far left.