[CNN] "I don't know, so I'm an atheist libertarian." - Penn Jillette

[Johncjackson]

I'm not making a comment directed at you personally, but more about the forum as a whole.

From watching Penn's stuff, I'd somehow doubt he'd like all the cop hating and 911 truthing that goes on in this forum.

I think that the celebrity who would fit in most in this forum would be Jessie Ventura

Penn has spoken out against bad police, which is all anyone in this forum does. I think his dad may have even been a police officer. I read something like that before in his criticism of police. I don't know think he's a Truther. Neither am I, but I really hate the police culture and think it's a very important issue. I don't know why you lumped people who support things like the Bill of Rights and don't think a police officer's job is to create crime and harm and kill with impunity with 9/11 Truthers.

 

[DamianTV]

 

[brushfire]

Penn is fantastic - I share all most all his beliefs, but one significant one. He's still respectful about disagreement... I also find him very entertaining - good stuff.

 

[Sam I am]

Penn has spoken out against bad police, which is all anyone in this forum does. I think his dad may have even been a police officer. I read something like that before in his criticism of police. I don't know think he's a Truther. Neither am I, but I really hate the police culture and think it's a very important issue. I don't know why you lumped people who support things like the Bill of Rights and don't think a police officer's job is to create crime and harm and kill with impunity with 9/11 Truthers.

Have you not seen the people on this forum declare that all police are scum or something of that nature? People speculating that 'oh normally the police would have done worse'?

The 911 truthing on this forum isn't so common, but from what I've seen, It's quite uniform. I've seen people saying that 911 was an inside job (and other similar conspiracy claims) on this forum, and all I see in response is people agreeing with them. I even have a negative reputation tick for merely saying "because the federal government actually isn't a conspiracy that's solely out to get you. " in response to the "why didn't they plant WMDs in Iraq" thread

 

[TheDrakeMan]

Penn isn't a truther. One of the episodes of Bullshit tackled numerous truther myths. And yes, Penn has criticized the cops before, specially last year when Free Staters came to my State while open carrying guns. He would actually like us discussing these things on this forum, since he believes property owners (like Admin of this forum) should respect freedom of speech (and yes, he does believe in property rights too) and is a fan of the marketplace of ideas. Have you not heard his podcast? He believes things like religion & politics shouldn't be sensitive issues and should be discussed openly as much as possible, since they are important subjects.

 

[Sentient Void]

Penn Jillette is a fellow self-proclaimed anarcho-capitalist.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Have you not seen the people on this forum declare that all police are scum or something of that nature? People speculating that 'oh normally the police would have done worse'?

The 911 truthing on this forum isn't so common, but from what I've seen, It's quite uniform. I've seen people saying that 911 was an inside job (and other similar conspiracy claims) on this forum, and all I see in response is people agreeing with them. I even have a negative reputation tick for merely saying "because the federal government actually isn't a conspiracy that's solely out to get you. " in response to the "why didn't they plant WMDs in Iraq" thread

There have been excesses on both sides. Over-generalizing about cops is regrettable, but 5,000 police brutality you tube videos later, you can't blame some people from being passionate about their outrage. From this truthers' perspective, the vast majority of the negativity has come from many thin-skinned, vocal non-truthers over the years here, who attack, demean and report posts about false flag operations like 9-11.

The reason you don't find it "so common" here is the barest mention of the issue is enough to get threads deleted or whisked to a non-indexed ghetto section of the forum. That created a chilling effect that reduced first class discussion of the matter, since the context has often been such utter disrespect coming from some non-truthers towards their fellow Paul supporters. Perhaps if they were as aggressive in attacking the government's "conspiracy theories," more toleration might abound.

 

[madfoot]

"Fuck you Frank!"

 

[dejavu22]

I'm not making a comment directed at you personally, but more about the forum as a whole.

From watching Penn's stuff, I'd somehow doubt he'd like all the cop hating and 911 truthing that goes on in this forum.

I think that the celebrity who would fit in most in this forum would be Jessie Ventura

I made no statement about the forum i made a statement about myself. Honestly i cringe a lot of times when i see some of the stuff people post but at the same time most of it i take the time to read it and form my own opinion about it without kneejerkingly writing it off. Do i hate cops no but i think that people should be encouraged to film all encounters with peace officers. Am i a truther... nope but i do think that having an open and independent investigation would be a great thing.

Asking questions is a good thing but admitting that you don't know is the best answer in most situations. Those that try to convince others they can fix all the problems are the most likely to screw everything up.

In fact the one assumption i will make is that a good portion of the forum is not atheist as many form their libertarian views out of unalienable rights from their creator.

 

[Sam I am]

Penn isn't a truther. One of the episodes of Bullshit tackled numerous truther myths. And yes, Penn has criticized the cops before, specially last year when Free Staters came to my State while open carrying guns. He would actually like us discussing these things on this forum, since he believes property owners (like Admin of this forum) should respect freedom of speech (and yes, he does believe in property rights too) and is a fan of the marketplace of ideas. Have you not heard his podcast? He believes things like religion & politics shouldn't be sensitive issues and should be discussed openly as much as possible, since they are important subjects.

Yes I watch his podcasts. Do you?

What I'm getting at is that this forum goes beyond cop criticism, and toward all out cop hate. Don't tell me that all you see is "criticism of bad cops" and as shown in http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ad-after-threatening-man-s-dogs-with-stun-gun
many people on this forum find it justifiable to murder a cop over pointing a stun gun at a dog he felt threatened by.

there was a certain Teaser Rate fellow, who was apparently getting a fair amount of chastising for saying a thing that I've heard Penn himself say many times before about the value of human life over an animal's.

I've seen Penn call republicans the party of fear, and democrats the party of hate. The thing he was criticizing democrats about was their belief that the republicans in government strive to do evil, which is an attitude that's rampant in this forum toward government officials in general.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes I watch his podcasts. Do you?

What I'm getting at is that this forum goes beyond cop criticism, and toward all out cop hate. Don't tell me that all you see is "criticism of bad cops" and as shown in http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ad-after-threatening-man-s-dogs-with-stun-gun
many people on this forum find it justifiable to murder a cop over pointing a stun gun at a dog he felt threatened by.

there was a certain Teaser Rate fellow, who was apparently getting a fair amount of chastising for saying a thing that I've heard Penn himself say many times before about the value of human life over an animal's.

I've seen Penn call republicans the party of fear, and democrats the party of hate. The thing he was criticizing democrats about was their belief that the republicans in government strive to do evil, which is an attitude that's rampant in this forum toward government officials in general.

That is justifiable-just as it would justifiable if any idiot other than a cop did the same thing. Most people take threats to their family members (including pets) very seriously. It is in fact lawful to use force (lethal if necessary) to prevent a cop from taking unlawful action involving martial force. Putting on a cop costume does not make a person exempt from common decency.

As far as "attitude toward government", I get a totally different vibe from the majority of the forum, which disappoints me. If more people would distrust the government, we wouldn't be in so much trouble.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Penn repeatedly says he doesn't know the answer to many "unanswerable" questions but he apparently knows there is no god. I don't know how he knows that but I suspect if he were honest he would have to admit that he doesn't. "Libertarian agnostic" might be a more honest description of himself.

 

[Vessol]

Penn repeatedly says he doesn't know the answer to many "unanswerable" questions but he apparently knows there is no god. I don't know how he knows that but I suspect if he were honest he would have to admit that he doesn't. "Libertarian agnostic" might be a more honest description of himself.

Many complex social problems cannot be solved by one person or group, that's why we need a free market.

As for the belief in a deity, I don't like getting in these conversations on this forum, but I know that their is no deities. I used to be an agnostic until I realized how illogical and inconsistent the idea of "Well, you can't prove or disprove it" sounds when compared to any other logical argument. There is no logical argument for the existence of any deity, nor any empirical evidence of any such supernatural beliefs.

 

[madfoot]

Penn repeatedly says he doesn't know the answer to many "unanswerable" questions but he apparently knows there is no god. I don't know how he knows that but I suspect if he were honest he would have to admit that he doesn't. "Libertarian agnostic" might be a more honest description of himself.

Atheism isn't a declaration of fact, just a lack of belief. He's an atheist because he believes the default position is not to believe in a creator until proven otherwise.

He's an agnostic atheist.

 

[Knightskye]

I'm not making a comment directed at you personally, but more about the forum as a whole.

From watching Penn's stuff, I'd somehow doubt he'd like all the cop hating and 911 truthing that goes on in this forum.

I think that the celebrity who would fit in most in this forum would be Jessie Ventura

There's no need to make blanket, collective accusations. If you're targeting a specific person, you can send him or her a PM.

 

[TexanRudeBoy]

From the comments:
"Are we who prosper to ignore those among us who suffer or just say too bad? No, we form governments to provide for the well being of all citizens."

People just don't get it... I wonder how much of his time/money he gives to help people in need.

"Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness."

 

[Napoleon's Shadow]

If Penn "doesn't know" then wouldn't he then be an agnostic not an athiest?

 

[DamianTV]

If the man says he is an Atheist then he is an Athiest. Why do someone elses beliefs always have to live up to someone elses standards when it comes to religion?

 

[fisharmor]

Yes I watch his podcasts. Do you?

What I'm getting at is that this forum goes beyond cop criticism, and toward all out cop hate. Don't tell me that all you see is "criticism of bad cops" and as shown in http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ad-after-threatening-man-s-dogs-with-stun-gun
many people on this forum find it justifiable to murder a cop over pointing a stun gun at a dog he felt threatened by.

there was a certain Teaser Rate fellow, who was apparently getting a fair amount of chastising for saying a thing that I've heard Penn himself say many times before about the value of human life over an animal's.

This isn't how this works.
If you're losing the argument in one thread, you don't get to come to another thread and mischaracterize everyone's statements all over again in a new one in the hopes that you'll do better with the same, sad, old argument.
You need to raise the bar beyond your Pavlovian response toward men in uniform if you want to get anywhere in your argument. And you need to do it in the relevant thread.

 

[hazek]

Thanks for posting the text of the article. I really hate to give a 'click' to a bad article but I clicked on this one even though I read it here first.