City to Supporter: Ron Paul Signs Must Come Down

[PolicyReader]

There have actually been quite a few cases of people forced to take down flags based on size limitations.

To be honest...I am pretty sure no one just inherently against this has ever or think they WILL ever be a home owner. Because if you were, you would not want the value of your home devalued by a too large flag or banner. And yes, this DOES affect the value of all homes in the area. And even if you don't intend n selling your home, having it devalued does negatively affect you if you ever want to take a loan for any reason.

Your rights end when it infringes on others.

You mean like invasive actions which simultaneously strip them of their free speech and disposition of their own property?

 

[angelatc]

There have actually been quite a few cases of people forced to take down flags based on size limitations.

To be honest...I am pretty sure no one just inherently against this has ever or think they WILL ever be a home owner. Because if you were, you would not want the value of your home devalued by a too large flag or banner. And yes, this DOES affect the value of all homes in the area. And even if you don't intend n selling your home, having it devalued does negatively affect you if you ever want to take a loan for any reason.

Your rights end when it infringes on others.

LOL wot?

I am pretty sure that Michael Landon is right about the ACLU and their win record on this topic.

 

[tom7126]

There have actually been quite a few cases of people forced to take down flags based on size limitations.

To be honest...I am pretty sure no one just inherently against this has ever or think they WILL ever be a home owner. Because if you were, you would not want the value of your home devalued by a too large flag or banner. And yes, this DOES affect the value of all homes in the area. And even if you don't intend n selling your home, having it devalued does negatively affect you if you ever want to take a loan for any reason.

Your rights end when it infringes on others.

This is exactly right. Anybody who disagrees is just siding with the Ron Paul banner, not the law. This isn't about freedom of speech, it's about affecting your neighbors home value. I'm sure the city would also send him a letter if he made a giant banner that read "PEANUT BUTTER IS GREAT ON TOAST" and hung it all up on the side of his house.

If you want to do whatever you want on your property, buy a house where your closest neighbor is half a mile away.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Someone care to come into this thread and explain to everyone why we should all just let four more years of this stuff pile up while we wait for 2016?
Or OOooooooo I know, perhaps Willard will save us if only we can convince him to give Paul a VP slot? yeah?? *fake manic face*

Sorry, snarky mood at the moment. In all seriousness I really hope that reports like this start to get more widely read so that people will understand we're under the gun as it is let alone how bad we will be if anyone BUT Paul is elected this year.

Who said to wait? No one that I saw. Start doing what you can to change the laws in your own community.

 

[AGRP]

A sign? Looks like he's using a tarp for privacy so people cant look into his front window which happens to have some duct tape on it

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I've been contemplating a sign that covers the entire side of my barn. Now I'm going to do it.

YESSS!!!

Blowback! We are going to have signs everywhere. Forever!

These fascists will lose. They will lose. We will never surrender.

 

[PolicyReader]

There have actually been quite a few cases of people forced to take down flags based on size limitations.

To be honest...I am pretty sure no one just inherently against this has ever or think they WILL ever be a home owner. Because if you were, you would not want the value of your home devalued by a too large flag or banner. And yes, this DOES affect the value of all homes in the area. And even if you don't intend n selling your home, having it devalued does negatively affect you if you ever want to take a loan for any reason.

Your rights end when it infringes on others.

This is exactly right. Anybody who disagrees is just siding with the Ron Paul banner, not the law. This isn't about freedom of speech, it's about affecting your neighbors home value. I'm sure the city would also send him a letter if he made a giant banner that read "PEANUT BUTTER IS GREAT ON TOAST" and hung it all up on the side of his house.

If you want to do whatever you want on your property, buy a house where your closest neighbor is half a mile away.

Let's see, which is the more reasonable choice "respectfully ask your neighbor to take down a sign while the assessor comes by"
Or
"make a law barring the free use and personal expression of an individual based on a subjective concept of value"
(let us grapple with these difficult and obscure concepts shall we?)

yeah that's hard, and don't even try to start with any claims that property value isn't subjective, the market is not static and assessor wouldn't even be a profession if values weren't subjective.

"Anybody who disagrees is just juggling toucans. If you want to dictate value and expression go live in China."
^See I can play that game too but it's not very persuasive, nor is it actually all that reasonable.
This type of attitude and rhetoric are the same kinds of things which are employed to shut down family farms, push people out of their homes so business can take over the land, and justify various "right of imminent domain" claims.

Want to build wind turbines on your land? Can't eyesore, property values.
Want to run a generator on your land? Can't noise pollution, property values.
Want to keep a cow, a goat, or chickens? Can't property values.
Want to use a different (say native to the climate and region) breed of grass in your lawn? Can't property values.
Need to mow your lawn less frequently than once a week (say your sick, or out of town, or injured). Fined, infraction, justification, damage to property values.
Considering putting up a clubhouse for your kids? Can't property values.
Have a personal aesthetic you'd like to express that isn't based around beige tones? Can't property values.

I would like to note that none of the above are hypothetical, that's just a short list of the actual legal infractions that I and others I know personally have dealt with. And we're not even talking about 'home owners associations" or anything to do with condos here, those tend to get even more egregiously invasive.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I am pretty sure no one just inherently against this has ever or think they WILL ever be a home owner. Because if you were, you would not want the value of your home devalued by a too large flag or banner.

Ha! Capp, you (must not be insulting, must not be insulting...) appear to not place a very high value on that quality we call "LIBERTY."

I probably own more homes than you ever will. And what's very important to me is that I be left alone in freedom to manage my own life and affairs. If my next-door neighbor has not mowed his lawn for 4 years, fine. I'll just tell myself he's doing a prairie restoration. Maybe I'll build a fence to try to keep the weeds from spreading. But I will not complain nor call down the Iron Fist upon him, because what's very important to me is that he respect my liberty if I'm doing something that he may or may not approve of.

You don't own the value of your home. Your home's value just consists of subjective ideas in other people's brains. You don't own other people's brains. You own your home. What people are willing to pay you for it is their concern, and their prerogative. If you did "own" the value of your home, that would mean that everyone else does too, and that would mean that you don't actually own your home, because others would be able to boss you around however they wanted in a mad and futile quest to control the values of their own homes. So the two ideas are mutually contradictory. Either you actually own the property, or you somehow (impossibly) attempt to "own" the value. Take your pick.

 

[Khun Jean]

If i was looking for a house i would likely pay more if the neighbor was a Ron Paul supporter.
Good living starts with good neighbors.

 

[kathy88]

If i was looking for a house i would likely pay more if the neighbor was a Ron Paul supporter.
Good living starts with good neighbors.

This. My neighbor is a straight up asshole. Makes life a tad uneasy. Called the cops on my kids band for practicing at 5:00 in the afternoon in our barn with the doors closed. Then went around the neighborhood (very rural - houses far apart) and tried to petition the neighbors to get a noise ordinance in the township. My husband snuck up into the woods behind his house and set off an automatic crow call for like 6 hours. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. He called the cops again.

 

[cjm]

There have actually been quite a few cases of people forced to take down flags based on size limitations.

To be honest...I am pretty sure no one just inherently against this has ever or think they WILL ever be a home owner. Because if you were, you would not want the value of your home devalued by a too large flag or banner. And yes, this DOES affect the value of all homes in the area. And even if you don't intend n selling your home, having it devalued does negatively affect you if you ever want to take a loan for any reason.

Your rights end when it infringes on others.

This is exactly right. Anybody who disagrees is just siding with the Ron Paul banner, not the law. This isn't about freedom of speech, it's about affecting your neighbors home value. I'm sure the city would also send him a letter if he made a giant banner that read "PEANUT BUTTER IS GREAT ON TOAST" and hung it all up on the side of his house.

If you want to do whatever you want on your property, buy a house where your closest neighbor is half a mile away.

Home value is subjective. It's an idea, it's not property. As long as the neighbor's property remains unmolested, there's no infringement of their property rights. If you think that reducing home value gives you a right to sue and take action (or have the government take action), why not do the same with the town factory that shuts down and makes the town less attractive as a place to live? That would reduce home value too.

Now then, if the sign is large enough and casts a shadow on the neighbor's established tomato garden or established solar panel, that one neighbor might have a case. But the "reduced value" argument is nonsense.

 

[loveshiscountry]

There have actually been quite a few cases of people forced to take down flags based on size limitations.

To be honest...I am pretty sure no one just inherently against this has ever or think they WILL ever be a home owner. Because if you were, you would not want the value of your home devalued by a too large flag or banner. And yes, this DOES affect the value of all homes in the area. And even if you don't intend n selling your home, having it devalued does negatively affect you if you ever want to take a loan for any reason.

Your rights end when it infringes on others.

I'm not a realtor, I don't flip houses or sell my house every few months. I don't fall into the category of for some reason a neighbor decreases my property value by X percent, so I won't be able to get the full loan on my house I wanted. I doubt many people fall into these categories

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Google "aclu political signs"

There are court findings I would include in a response to the city, as well a CC to your local ACLU.

 

[jbauer]

Ok, so lets say I paint my house some "ugly" color. Or I plant the wrong type of bush. If there is a law againt signs then there is a law and it should be enforced against everyone equally. If there's not a law against signs tell his neighbor to put up an obama sign.

This is exactly right. Anybody who disagrees is just siding with the Ron Paul banner, not the law. This isn't about freedom of speech, it's about affecting your neighbors home value. I'm sure the city would also send him a letter if he made a giant banner that read "PEANUT BUTTER IS GREAT ON TOAST" and hung it all up on the side of his house.

If you want to do whatever you want on your property, buy a house where your closest neighbor is half a mile away.