Christians and Government

[zbus12]

yes, but isn't wonderful watching God raising up his sons, no matter what they call themselves.

Yes it is, and I have found, that it is a wonderful sight and sound to hear so many people from all different backgrounds come together and search and fight for truth together in this cause. I have also noticed so many people open and at least receptive to hearing the truth of the gospel because of the truths they seek. Even more so than those who claim to be Christian. I do truly believe this movement is a work of God! but then again, EVERYTHING is a work of God.

 

[LEK]

DeadtoSin -

Thank you so much for having the courage to post this. I too am tired of the Christian-bashing and wonder how people who support someone like Ron Paul, who recognizes and honors the individual, can be so sacrcastic and cutting. It is highly insulting to compare our faith to the faith of those who use it for poiltical gain. If we belonged to that category we wouldn't be supporting Ron Paul.


Where do you guys think Ron Paul's integrity comes from? Listen to him, read his statement of faith - he is a Christian too, a Baptist (Gasp!) - but not just in name only. He lives it.

"Some of the strongest supporters of the war declare that we are a Christian nation, yet use their religious beliefs to justify the war. They claim it is our Christian duty to remake the Middle East and attack the Muslim infidels. Evidently I have been reading from a different Bible. I remember something about “Blessed are the peacemakers.”

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS - Before the U.S. House of Representatives - June 29, 2006


Preach the Gospel at all times, if necessary use words.

 

[DeadtoSin]

DeadtoSin -

Thank you so much for having the courage to post this. I too am tired of the Christian-bashing and wonder how people who support someone like Ron Paul, who recognizes and honors the individual, can be so sacrcastic and cutting. It is highly insulting to compare our faith to the faith of those who use it for poiltical gain. If we belonged to that category we wouldn't be supporting Ron Paul.


Where do you guys think Ron Paul's integrity comes from? Listen to him, read his statement of faith - he is a Christian too, a Baptist (Gasp!) - but not just in name only. He lives it.

"Some of the strongest supporters of the war declare that we are a Christian nation, yet use their religious beliefs to justify the war. They claim it is our Christian duty to remake the Middle East and attack the Muslim infidels. Evidently I have been reading from a different Bible. I remember something about “Blessed are the peacemakers.”

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS - Before the U.S. House of Representatives - June 29, 2006


Preach the Gospel at all times, if necessary use words.

Wow guys, thanks for all the good posts! I did not expect to get this kind of response!

By the way LEK, I love that last line about preaching.

 

[cilution]

I think the root of this problem can be explained in part by what Ron Paul himself said of democracy. I remember him saying something along the lines of "Democracy implies the tyranny of the majority," and frankly, the majority of people in this country are Christian. Because we are a Democracy, and Christians are by far the majority, Christian views get pushed on everyone, whether you admit it or not. As a result, some people fear Christians as a whole because of their influence.

If we were a Republic that followed the Constitution, religious influence wouldn't matter as much because the minorities would be protected from the tyranny of the majority. In other words, non-Christians wouldn't need to worry about the government passing bills or taking action based on primarily Christian principles and beliefs. The Constitution is the government's Bible, as I see it. As an agnostic man, I do not want to feel pressure to conform to the majority's standards in order to feel accepted or to allow myself better chances to get ahead in life, but I suppose some conformity is necessary in any society. Just, please, not religious or belief-based conformity.

I have been discriminated against for various things in my life, and trust me, discrimination based on your beliefs hurts, and I have a feeling many people who are bitter towards Christianity have experienced similar discrimination. It works kind of like "Don't ask, don't tell" in the military. If I openly admit not being a Christian, I feel like I'm opening myself up to get the boot, limit my employment options, limit my potential friends, etc. I don't think that is right to feel like you need to hide who you are in order to have an equal shot in today's world.

 

[WATYF]

Israel was constantly and consistently punished for their rejection of Him, and who are we to think that He will not do the same thing to us if we reject Him.

Well... if you're basing your argument on Christian doctrine (i.e. the Bible), then "we" are under what's called the "new covenant". Israel was punished because their sins hadn't yet been paid for by the final sacrifice (the Messiah). They were still subject to the wrath of God. Now that all past and future sin has been atoned for, there's no need to worry about God smiting us for not being a "Christian" enough nation.

Sorry, but trying to scare people by saying, "If we don't turn back to being a Christian nation, God will smite us." is no less a scare tactic than saying, "If we don't attack Iraq, the terrorists will get us." Neither of those statements is/was supported by the evidence. Unfortunately, I think it's those types of attitudes that turn off non-Christian RP supporters.

I will say, however, that RP's message is working to promote the message of freedom among Christians who would formerly have been less "tolerant" of those that they disagree with. I personally have spoken with several Christians who previously would have replied with a knee-jerk "Absolutely not!" if asked whether or not they support the rights of gays to marry. But after understanding what RP stands for and the necessity of people being given the freedom to make their own choices, they've realized that in order to be consistent in the message of freedom, they are willing to accept that people should be given the right to make that decision, even if they dno't personally agree with it.


WATYF

 

[hillbilly]

There are two ways that religion is brought into public life in American history. The first way — God on our side — leads inevitably to triumphalism, self-righteousness, bad theology, and often, dangerous foreign policy. The second way — asking if we are on God's side — leads to much healthier things, namely, penitence and even repentance, humility, reflection, and even accountability. We need much more of all these, because these are often the missing values of politics.
-- Jim Wallis, "God's Politics"

 

[dblee]

There are two ways that religion is brought into public life in American history. The first way — God on our side — leads inevitably to triumphalism, self-righteousness, bad theology, and often, dangerous foreign policy. The second way — asking if we are on God's side — leads to much healthier things, namely, penitence and even repentance, humility, reflection, and even accountability. We need much more of all these, because these are often the missing values of politics.
-- Jim Wallis, "God's Politics"

wise words.

 

[dblee]

As a result, some people fear Christians as a whole because of their influence.

I can understand this. Many Christians are erroneously of the view that we can bludgeon our beliefs into those that don't agree with us. Jesus did not do this.

I have been discriminated against for various things in my life, and trust me, discrimination based on your beliefs hurts, and I have a feeling many people who are bitter towards Christianity have experienced similar discrimination. It works kind of like "Don't ask, don't tell" in the military. If I openly admit not being a Christian, I feel like I'm opening myself up to get the boot, limit my employment options, limit my potential friends, etc. I don't think that is right to feel like you need to hide who you are in order to have an equal shot in today's world.

In a libertarian world-view we're not protected from hurt feelings, only equal treatment under the law. That doesn't make discrimination right however. I think the first step to not being discriminated against is to refrain from continuing the pattern of discrimination yourself.

Retaliation does not breed harmony. Not accusing you of this, but as a Christian I often feel persecuted. Especially in libertarian and other intellectual circles. I hear things all the time like 'Do you know that Christians on a whole have lower IQ's?'

Totally ad hominem.

I envision a country someday with the constitution and Ron Paul's personal philosophy as a guide-- where everyone's beliefs are universally respected, and people's primary form of spreading their ideas is through example.

 

[DeadtoSin]

Good post dblee.

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

Christian non-intervention:

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/2008/01/religious-endorse-ron-paul.html

 

[nbhadja]

But it is demonstrable that this was the view of our founders, so are saying that we should not go to our founders for the solutions for our problems.

Israel was constantly and consistently punished for their rejection of Him, and who are we to think that He will not do the same thing to us if we reject Him.

Sorry if you think this is extreme, but I have yet to see a naturalistic alternative that provides the foundational beliefs necessary to make objective claims to moral laws that do not have to borrow from a Christian view of reality.

If you would like, I would be glad to provide quotes from our founding fathers asserting the same ideas.

Morals don't come from religion. I am an atheist and have never derived any of my morals from religion.

 

[cilution]

Retaliation does not breed harmony. Not accusing you of this, but as a Christian I often feel persecuted. Especially in libertarian and other intellectual circles. I hear things all the time like 'Do you know that Christians on a whole have lower IQ's?'

I don't think that sort of behavior has anything to do with being libertarian or being part of any intellectual circles, that's entirely a personal need to make yourself feel superior to others. It's a sign of their own weakness, because they feel as if they need to prove themselves rather than automatically being seen and seeing others as equals. Most people would rather think of themselves as better than someone else.

Often times, sadly, people who are not religious feel as if they are superior in some way, perhaps because they don't feel tied down by faith or religious doctrines, and they believe that makes them more open-minded, but having that kind of attitude actually makes them closed-minded. People are silly creatures.

 

[Paul Revered]

i wouldnt say im religious...i believe in the stars the sun and the moon...im very spiritual and i firmly believe in the old saying of treating others the way u want to be treated

Matthew 7:12 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)



12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


--Jesus

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

Christian Coalition Ralph Reed was just asked ( http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18664285) a direct question about who is "conservative" and he named Romney and Huckabee but NOT Paul, calling Paul a libertarian.

A strong values voter called-in to say that Reed's Coalition activities weakened the caller's GOP loyalty but the caller is voting RP in 2008 even if he has to write-in Paul.

Then, one of the other guests reset the conversation to stupid by calling McCain the most fiscally conservative, except for Paul, McCain was definitely the most fiscally conservative (yes, he actually named Paul only to eliminate him from the conversation on fiscal conservatism somehow).

Christian foreign policy: http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/2008/01/religious-endorse-ron-paul.html