China Defies Elon Musk’s Warnings and Pushes Ahead With Hydrogen

[Peace Piper]

China Defies Elon Musk’s Warnings and Pushes Ahead With Hydrogen

China Defies Elon Musk’s Warnings and Pushes Ahead With Hydrogen

Bloomberg News | November 19, 2020

Asia’s biggest economy wants to promote fuel cells for trucks

Tesla Inc. Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk has spent years mocking the idea of using hydrogen fuel cells rather than electric batteries to power next-generation green vehicles. “Fuel cells = fool sells,” the boss of the world’s top electric-car maker tweeted in June.

China, the world’s biggest market for electric vehicles, isn’t so quick to dismiss the alternative to batteries. Officials are promoting the development of hydrogen-powered cars, trucks and buses, with Beijing offering to reward cities that achieve adoption targets.

In a 15-year plan for new-energy vehicles released on Nov. 2, China’s State Council said the country will focus on building the fuel-cell supply chain and developing hydrogen-powered trucks and buses. President Xi Jinping in September set a 2030 deadline for China to begin reducing carbon emissions.

“Hydrogen is expected to play a much more important role to drastically decrease the country’s greenhouse gas emissions,” Kevin Jianjun Tu, a non-resident fellow at the French think tank Ifri, wrote in a report published in October.

MORE: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...usk-s-warnings-and-pushes-ahead-with-hydrogen

RELATED:

Budweiser China Deploys Hydrogen FCV Trucks

October 28, the second “Budweiser China Green Logistics VA Day” was successfully held in Shanghai. Budweiser announced a series of new initiatives to advance its Green Logistics in China, including the roll-out of Hydrogen FCV trucks across its value chain.

At the convention, Jan Clysner, VP Procurement & Sustainability, Bud APAC; Rodrigo Moraes Rodrigues, VP Logistics, Bud APAC; Song Su from World Resources Institute; Gu Chenxi, Deputy Secretary-General of Shanghai Logistics Association; Zhong Wu, Secretary of Cargo TST Department in Shanghai Road Transportation Development Center; Dr. Yu Huajun from Fudan University; and corporate partners from Bestpath, Cardinal, etc. jointly witnessed another key milestone on Budweiser China’s journey of green logistics.

Jan Clysner, VP Procurement & Sustainability, Bud APAC, expressed his great confidence in the new initiatives: “At Budweiser, sustainability is not just part of our business; it is our business. Back in 2018, Budweiser announced its 2025 Sustainability Goals, which take climate action as a key pillar. We take enormous pride in taking the lead to deploy Hydrogen FCVs throughout our logistics network, which demonstrates Budweiser’s determination to achieve its climate commitments by reducing CO2 emissions.”...MORE: https://budweiserapac.com/en/new2020102801.html



Soon, Americans will be asking themselves how China managed to dominate the Hydrogen Fuel Cell industry. They'll be accused of stealing the tech, no doubt. It will be fun to watch. The only "innovations" to come out of America in the last 20 years are improved methods of surveillance and drone-killing, because that's how Americans kill civilians now, from 20,000 feet.

Meanwhile, Hyundai's Hydrogen Trucks are delivering goods in Switzerland - using a national H2 network - RIGHT NOW

 

[jmdrake]

The belongs here.

 

[jmdrake]

The belongs here.

And a follow up. How to make the hydrogen storage material without a particle accelerator.

 

[pcosmar]

https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2019/09/09/cummins-closes-its-acquisition-hydrogenics

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/cummins-dives-into-hydrogen-as-traditional-engine-business-stalls

Diesel engine leader covers the bases for a growing hydrogen economy

 

[Danke]

I already got one.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I already got one.

I bought mine from an injun. You better check your driveway.

 

[Danke]

I bought mine from an injun. You better check your driveway.

oh frick. it is gone.

 

[Danke]

I'm sure Oyarde's tribal people are just "borrowing" it.
'

 

[Working Poor]

I like the idea of hydrogen but I think it should be produced on board using water I don't like the idea of having to go to a GAS STATION TO USE IT.

 

[mangojuice]

The idea of hydrogen clean energy is amazing but that is hard to reveal. Hydrogen energy have many fatal factors when apply on a car if traffic accident happens.

 

[acptulsa]

I like the idea of hydrogen but I think it should be produced on board using water I don't like the idea of having to go to a GAS STATION TO USE IT.

Where do you get the energy to split the water? Batteries? With both batteries and an internal combustion engine on board, where do you put your luggage? Will you need truck tires to handle the weight of a compact car?

The idea of hydrogen clean energy is amazing but that is hard to reveal. Hydrogen energy have many fatal factors when apply on a car if traffic accident happens.

It's better than gasoline in that situation.

Hydrogen is a more efficient and safer way to "drive on electricity" simply because even today's lighter, more efficient batteries weigh half a ton. But the more government whines about energy usage, the more it forces us to waste energy. It was true in the 1970s when, during the OPEC oil crisis, carmakers were forced to lower compression to reduce oxides of nitrogen, and make cars a quarter ton heavier with bumpers designed to withstand impacting barriers at jogging speed. Now they found a way to increase the weight of vehicles by half a ton.

Remember, energy companies make more campaign contributions than you do. The government also doesn't want you to be able to travel freely and undetected between cities.

 

[Working Poor]

Where do you get the energy to split the water? Batteries? With both batteries and an internal combustion engine on board, where do you put your luggage? Will you need truck tires to handle the weight of a compact car?

Several years ago I worked with a man named Angel who was a mechanical engineer we made an electroloizer in a quart sized mason jar filled with water and attached to the battery in an old truck. The hydrogen went into the carburetor thru a tube. The old truck was a Chevy P30 step van 350 engine. It got a bout 10 miles to the gallon using only gasoline. We still used gasoline but the hydrogen was like a supplement to the gas but the miles per gallon increased to about 19. It cost about $100 to make the electrolizer (The specialized wire is what cost so much and it corroded fast too) had to be tweaked(The winding of the wire was the most important part of the whole thing) Angel made a special winder just for the purpose and we had to refill it with water about once a week. The carb had to be tweaked a lot too to get the right air to fuel mix we had to replace the carb and put a new kit in it several times because it got too hot. Hydrogen has a lower ignition temperature than gas. So we had to do a lot of calculations to get it right. Hydrogen can brittle metals so it is really important to get the right ratio of gas and air. Hydrogen's flame is almost undetectable to the human eye and nothing can be added to it that is light enough to it can detected by smell.It is the lightest of all gases. So you can see why it can be very dangerous if exposed to flame. We worked with the engine on a bench before we put it back into the truck. The hydrogen burned off all the crud in the engine and it ran really good after it got cleaned up. we barely had to push the gas pedal to make it take off. We called the truck Frankenstein. I wish I still had that truck. I lost everything during Obama thru a series of missteps on my part. My mechanic engineer friend got busted for pot. I would have rather given him the truck than sell but he was sent to prison it was terrible times I sold it to help is family he had a vaccine injured child and his wife didn't speak english. So they went back to their home country. He was one of the best people I have ever met I really hate I lost touch him. He helped so many people.

But to answer your question I don't think an electrolizer would weigh all that much and neither would the battery to operate it From what I have seen a normal 12 volt car battery could do it. I am not a mechanic although I understand mechanics and I have had to put my hands in tight areas for people who could not get their big fat hands in a tight area. I think my friend was damn close to getting it right. Personally I think that is why he got busted. We did not broadcast what we were doing. But he had a constant flow of people coming to his shop for help with their cars and trucks. I think the wrong person over heard something.He was so smart and did some amazing repairs. I hope he is okay now. He should have been working for Elon Musk instead of rotting in some prison. There is a reason we do not have cheap or free energy and it is called greed. There are probably a 1000s people like Angel who have made some really cool stuff that can never be put on the market. My grandfather was a scientist I guess that is why I am drawn to scientific types of people. People with brilliant minds are often exploited and tossed away like garbage.

 

[acptulsa]

Several years ago I worked with a man named Angel who was a mechanical engineer we made an electroloizer in a quart sized mason jar filled with water and attached to the battery in an old truck. The hydrogen went into the carburetor thru a tube. The old truck was a Chevy P30 step van 350 engine. It got a bout 10 miles to the gallon using only gasoline. We still used gasoline but the hydrogen was like a supplement to the gas but the miles per gallon increased to about 19.

Mechanics are all well and good. But to get this you have to talk to a physicist.

It takes x amount of energy to split water molecules, and the most you can ever get from recombining that same hydrogen and oxygen (burning the hydrogen) is x amount of energy. Now, your friend sounds brilliant. He did some interesting things here, like introducing what amounted to water injection, and by pumping some pure oxygen into the cylinders, which is a big aid to combustion. No doubt he made the old truck burn gasoline more efficiently, as well as adding another fuel to the mix. And yes the extra battery produced more fuel as well. A 90% improvement is impressive. But he probably could have improved it at least 20% just by doing the careful tune up alone.

But the generator can only produce enough electricity to produce enough hydrogen to run if turning the generator is the only thing it does. And that only happens if everything is 100% efficient, which never happens. If you actually want the machine to move under its own power, you need another source of electrical power.

On-board electrolysis to produce fuel to run a piston engine could never be as efficient as just driving electric motors from the same batteries. Internal combustion engines simply aren't as efficient as electric motors, and they're heavier too. The reason I believe hydrogen can be more efficient is that it eliminates the need to carry batteries, which are heavy as hell.

Thanks for the story. I like this guy. He'd be fun to talk to. Without gasoline in the tank, you'd be surprised how quickly the one twelve volt battery would run down. But his glass jug electrolosis machine serves as both a water injector and a pure oxygen injector. Both are proven methods of improving the efficiency of piston engines, water injection by allowing for timing to be advanced and/or compression to be increased, while oxygen injection does basically the same thing as nitrous injection. With gasoline in the tank, I can see how the accelerator pedal would become touchy!

 

[Working Poor]

But to get this you have to talk to a physicist.

Oh we did to do what we did and I did the calculations for the fuel mix we had a few snazzy valves too. My grandfather was a physicist. He taught me how to cook with a slide rule.

Angel wanted to convert a motor cycle and a rotary engine. If you could work with the electrical and the spark plugs you might get even better improvement in gas mileage. I know electrical engines are more efficient but price of the electricity to run them is not all that cheap.mechanical engines are more fun to play with I think. I is doable to make a motorcycle motor get 100 mpg. India makes cars using a motor cycle engine now maybe China too. People should be getting good value in all these alternatives but they are not and that is and will be a problem going forward. Toyota came up with a water fueled car and they had some industrial espionage problems with it too. If you heard about their cars getting on the highway and the person driving could not stop or steer the car several people were killed as a result it was a threat IMO. A good friend on mines daughter was an engineer for Toyota.