Cheating in FL straw poll prompts Criminal Complaint

[Cindy]

The fraud part is more then covered.

How many times do people have to inform the rest that prior to the day of the Straw poll, people were told that it was 1 vote per person, and that a limtited number of tickets were printed.

People spent money on tickets based on that information.

Thats a secondary issue. The one people are most disturbed and concerned about right now are the threats made by the REC County Chair.

The manattee county REC, is having a meeting on it all tonight with the State rEC Chair.

They are looking to get an official public apology from the RECs that ran the Straw Poll , as well as one from Tony Dimatteo, and the money spent on unused tickets refunded to Sophie.

That is a good start and I think the law suit may be premature at this point.

My husband is at that meeting right now. I'll let you all know what happened.

I missed responding to some earlier replies to me.

I never see my time spent here working to reason with other people as a waste.

They do care or they wouldn't bother posting in this thread.

They are just afraid, and I am doing what I can to help them over come those fears of the GOP and the media. We have too overcome them if we are going to get Paul the nomination and into the White House!!

Hubby just got back. He said it was a Viper pit full of fangs. I'll get the scoop and report back.

 

[Duckman]

Hmm... I guess I have a different take on this than most.

I think keeping news like this in the media is actually good for us... I don't think most people know much about straw polling. I don't think most people know much about how political parties operate. I think when people see it, they will be disusted. At them. And not at us for exposing the practice, even if we don't have a legal leg to stand on.

I don't think Ron Paul's name should necessarily be associated with this. Let the media make the link. I'd rather be linked to this than some of the other things the media has been unkind to link us with. Link us with exposing the corrupt, amoral tactics being used by the political party that supposedly represents religious people. I think that's the kind of "negative" publicity that really does actually help us.

 

[Cindy]

REC meeting report for Manatee County

There were about 50 people there.

Jim Grier, the State REC Chair was their as an honorary Guest as well.

The first 20 minutes was a bunch of ass kissing to all of the organizers about how great they are.

Then the State Chair spoke for 20 minutes about how it's vital that Republicans vote for Republicans no matter who the Nominee is, that the party has to stick together. Husband said it felt like Top Down brainwashing where no one was being encouraged to think for themselves.

He carried on about a new state law in Florida for Republicans that says, if you are active within the party, you can be kicked out by an Official State "grievences committee" for whatever reason they decide. In other words, toe the party line and mind your Ps & Qs or you are out!!


He carried on about how they are a party of Integrity, that listen to the residents of Florida. He said, the Democrats use Florida like it is an ATM machine when campaigning here and do not listen to the people.

Then, he asked if anyone had questions.

No one raised there hand but my husband who , reiterated what he said about being the party of Integrity and listening to the people, and then asked how he felt about what happened at the Vinoy Park Straw Poll, and he recapped it for him."


Grier said, " I don't know all of the details, that happened in another district so I won't comment on it here. I'll talk to you about it after the meeting."

Other people raised their hands and said to him, " No, we want you to talk about it to all of us here and now"

Grier gave the same blow off, changed the subject and then said goodbye and headed for the door.

Of course, my husband got up and approached him. Grier said, " Nice to meet you, have a good night", and turned again to leave. My husband said, " No no no, you said you would talk to me about this after the meeting"

Then they were interrupted by someone who said, you two should go out into the lobby to discuss this.

In there, Grier kept trying to blow him off, and then a Grier goon tried to butt in and told Todd to drop it and to quit being stupid trying to push the issue, at which point Todd ( my Husband) pushed him aside and told him to quit being an asshole. Then Greir said, "Okay , you have 30 seconds" Then another Grier goon came to intterupt and Grier split for his car, and Todd caught up to him again, and then Grier said, " We are not talking about this anymore" and got in his car and split.

so, that is how they chose to handle what happened with the straw poll and the threats made by Tony Dimetteo.

By then, the rest of the meeting was wrapping up when Todd went in.

He came back from it saying it felt like a communist party meeting, and that if it was indicative of how this country is really being run, he wants to move out of it.
He said you could cut the arrogance in there with a knife.

He said it was messed up at how brainwashed the regulars seemed to be and couldn't understand why they go along with this stuff.

Todd wants you all to know that the REC Chair of Florida, Jim Grier is a "Blow Hard"

Go ahead and let law suits fly......................these people do not care about integrity in the party and can not be reasoned with.

 

[PatriotOne]

We got big problems in this country. It's time for the new generation to take over and get these control freaks the hell out of our way so we can evolve!

 

[tmg19103]

REC meeting report for Manatee County

There were about 50 people there.

Jim Grier, the State REC Chair was their as an honorary Guest as well.

The first 20 minutes was a bunch of ass kissing to all of the organizers about how great they are.

Then the State Chair spoke for 20 minutes about how it's vital that Republicans vote for Republicans no matter who the Nominee is, that the party has to stick together. Husband said it felt like Top Down brainwashing where no one was being encouraged to think for themselves.

He carried on about a new state law in Florida for Republicans that says, if you are active within the party, you can be kicked out by an Official State "grievences committee" for whatever reason they decide. In other words, toe the party line and mind your Ps & Qs or you are out!!


He carried on about how they are a party of Integrity, that listen to the residents of Florida. He said, the Democrats use Florida like it is an ATM machine when campaigning here and do not listen to the people.

Then, he asked if anyone had questions.

No one raised there hand but my husband who , reiterated what he said about being the party of Integrity and listening to the people, and then asked how he felt about what happened at the Vinoy Park Straw Poll, and he recapped it for him."


Grier said, " I don't know all of the details, that happened in another district so I won't comment on it here. I'll talk to you about it after the meeting."

Other people raised their hands and said to him, " No, we want you to talk about it to all of us here and now"

Grier gave the same blow off, changed the subject and then said goodbye and headed for the door.

Of course, my husband got up and approached him. Grier said, " Nice to meet you, have a good night", and turned again to leave. My husband said, " No no no, you said you would talk to me about this after the meeting"

Then they were interrupted by someone who said, you two should go out into the lobby to discuss this.

In there, Grier kept trying to blow him off, and then a Grier goon tried to butt in and told Todd to drop it and to quit being stupid trying to push the issue, at which point Todd ( my Husband) pushed him aside and told him to quit being an asshole. Then Greir said, "Okay , you have 30 seconds" Then another Grier goon came to intterupt and Grier split for his car, and Todd caught up to him again, and then Grier said, " We are not talking about this anymore" and got in his car and split.

so, that is how they chose to handle what happened with the straw poll and the threats made by Tony Dimetteo.

By then, the rest of the meeting was wrapping up when Todd went in.

He came back from it saying it felt like a communist party meeting, and that if it was indicative of how this country is really being run, he wants to move out of it.
He said you could cut the arrogance in there with a knife.

He said it was messed up at how brainwashed the regulars seemed to be and couldn't understand why they go along with this stuff.

Todd wants you all to know that the REC Chair of Florida, Jim Grier is a "Blow Hard"

Go ahead and let law suits fly......................these people do not care about integrity in the party and can not be reasoned with.

Sounds like PA where the state and county GOP are nothing more than a mafia-like organization that is all about power and control for the insiders, and if you make noise and are not one of the good old boys - you will get threats and intimidation.

 

[noztnac]

Looks like fraud to me. Money was taken under false pretenses. The only people this can be bad for is Mitt Romney and his underlings.

 

[ronpaulblogsdotcom]

As far as Civil suits go....

I really dont see a cause of action here... the straw poll was private...

For Fraud you must have
1. a false statement or action
2. known to be false, and with intent for others to rely on it
3. the statement was indeed relied on
4. and damages. (this is the element that I think is lacking)

What damages could they claim?

The only potential COA that I can see is the threat to the lady of bodily harm if she went public with the info.

Now, since there was no harmful or offensive contact, there is no battery.

For Assault you need the following elements:
1. an affirmative statement or action
2. that statement or action puts person in immenint apprehension of bodily harm

Now because the lady actually did go public with information, the second element is shot to pieces.. she obviously was not in any immemint apprehension of bodily harm because she went ahead an went public. She didnt believe his statement enough to refrain from doing what he threatened against.

The only other cause of action I can see here is maybe Intentional infliction of emotional distress...

Even though no assault, there can be IIED. If she can prove that his actions were in fact outrageous and reckless to the ordinary person. As if you told another person what happened they would exclaim "outrageous"

I see this as the only COA she has.... Therefore, not really worth suing...


As for Criminal, you must have a higher burden of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil case, you only have to prove a, preponderance of the evidence.

I really am glad some of the turn the other cheek people here are not my lawyers. Not that I am a lawyer but I dont think a good lawyer or citizen would have a problem proving all of the above.

1. a false statement or action
We are having a straw poll to determine public support before an incredibly important election of the most important office in the world of a country at war.
2. known to be false, and with intent for others to rely on it
One vote per person, RP supporters and others thought so
3. the statement was indeed relied on
They did not vote repeatedly. Sat on hundreds of tickets.
4. and damages. (this is the element that I think is lacking)
The tickets not used, plus transportation, plus opportunity costs possibly. Plus the big unknown Reputation damage to RP campaign for not winning.

What damages could they claim? See above

The only potential COA that I can see is the threat to the lady of bodily harm if she went public with the info.

Now, since there was no harmful or offensive contact, there is no battery. True but she was threatened

For Assault you need the following elements:
1. an affirmative statement or action You will get hurt....
2. that statement or action puts person in imminent apprehension of bodily harm. We have no idea of her thoughts after the verbal threat but I imagine she left the area and found supportive large RP supporters to protect her. If you are a 250 pound man and someone 180 pounds threatens you they really have to get crazy to be considered a threat. If you are 105 pound woman (guessing) and some 250 pound man says you will get hurt, this is an immediate threat and needs to be taken as one. It might be hard for me or you to understand this but imagine some 400 pound guy saying you are going to get hurt if you continue on your present course. Piss your pants time.

These are all serious. Hang em high.

We don't all need to get involved in all of these things but these things are serious. Dont let these cheating, lying, stealing, war supporting thugs get anything free or easy.

 

[dawnbt]

Assuming this is true I would imagine a former FBI agent would know if this is legal or not illegal. I am going to assume he knows something that the rest of us don't know.

Exactly! But the MSM will just say this thing is an elaborate scheme by fanatical Ron Paul supporters..blah, blah, blah! And that it's a "scam". Please, they are able to make the Trans-Texan Super Highway look like a figment of not only Ron Paul's imagination, but Lou Dobbs, and every other journalist that have been talking about it for 2 years!

 

[LinuxUser269]

True but she was threatened
He needs a restraining order put on him if you fear for bodily harm or your life

 

[PatriotOne]

Saw the update below over at the Meet-Up.com boards.

For all those who don't know who John DeCamp is you can see a brief description of him here. He's also the person who exposed the pedophile ring being run out of Omaha, Nebraska for the "elite" and "politicians" right up to the White House (book - The Franklin Cover Up).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeCamp

UPDATE:

The famous Nebraska attorney, John DeCamp, a close friend of Ted Gunderson, has requested that we send him more information about the crimes of the recent Florida straw poll felony fraud and conspiracy. He is considering the drafting of a "class action" suit by all victims who paid $20 per ballot-entry and thereafter defrauded. Please be patient as we continue our investigation and the prospect of filing a class action suit---in which case---the ticket-purchases from all the presidential candidates, including Romney's supporters, can adjoin the civil class action lawsuit and/or the criminal complaint. Please help us post this news far and wide and on the Ron Paul Message board. Thank you.

Gunderson Professional Investigations
Clarence Malcolm aka JusticeRanger

 

[newbitech]

just to throw in my eye witness testimony to what happened in Vinoy Park.

I went down there and walked up to the voting check in. It was about 6:30pm so it was dark. I asked the person giving out tickets what I needed to do vote in the poll. She said that I needed to get one of those blue cards. I asked her if she needed to see ID or a voter registration card.

She said no, just get a blue card. I did not see anywhere that I could get these cards from when I walked in so I asked someone who had a card and was in line. He said to purchase the card at the front and pointed to a couple of people sitting at a make shift table.

I walked up to the table which was a huge Mitt Romney sign on top of a few saw horses. I saw a man and woman seated there and there was a stack of blue cards on the table wrapped with some rubber bands. Probably about 50 of them. I asked how much are the cards and the man replied $20. I said wow, $20 to vote? He said, well its to vote and eat the BBQ. I asked him if there was any way I could just purchase a card to vote since I had already eaten dinner.

This is where it got crazy for me. The woman answered for him and so no sorry its $20. The man then said well you could always get 2 for $40 or 5 for $100. This threw me off for a sec until I could do the math in my head. I thought he was trying to offer me some kind of a deal cause the way he said it. Then I realized he was being and ass-hat. So I said wow man why would I need 5 tickets I am just trying to get a vote in. I assumed wrongly apparently that I only could vote once since thats what a vote is right?

Anyway, he said no you can vote as many times as you want. The woman corrected him and said no no, you can only vote 10 times. I was just starting to ask her if it is limited then how are they checking to see how many cards someone bought, but then this guy came up and started giving them hell about the Mitt Romney table.

He apparently figured out I was a Ron Paul supporter somehow and asked me if Sophie had run out of tickets already and I was just like, who is Sophie? At that point another really strange thing happened. A couple of people in really sharp suits walked up and the lady at the table started going ape-shit. She was all like OH HI CONGRESSMAN! How are you CONGRESSMAN! It so good to see you CONGRESSMAN! He came up and hugged her and handed her an envelop which was obviously stuffed with cash. She slipped the envelop under the table and passed it to the man who was sort of standing up.

He then gave the entire stack of tickets. I mean all of them in the rubber-band to the woman who then gave them to the Congressman who then handed them to some other suited person. At this point I was just totally shocked and when I looked around noticed a little bit of a crowd had gathered around. It was odd cause there was a guy standing next to me and we kinda looked over at each other with a look of disbelief at what we had just seen. The guys said, man I guess thats what those white envelops stuffed with cash really look like.

I immediately got creeped out and said, yeah this thing is totally rigged. He must have been feeling the same way I was cause his response was yeah lets get out of here. I said yeah I am with you, I am not wasting any of my time or money here. This is FUBAR. And I left.

On the way out, I heard lots of people talking about how the poll was a setup for Mitt Romney. Mostly Paul supporters.

On a side note, there was about 3-4 bus loads of suited people coming in to one of the hotels there. You had to walk past the buses to get to the park entrance. I figured they were those bused in supporters you always here about. I don't think they were going to the debate. Maybe it was Romney's group or some Republican group. I didn't see any of them out there voting.

Its possible that they all chipped in and had someone go vote for them. If thats the case, thats crap. The got arms and legs and should have walked their happy asses down to the park and voted like everyone else. Otherwise. I am trying to find out who that Congressman was so I can call his office and ask him what the hell was he doing buying 50 tickets at a straw poll.

 

[lloydian]

amazing stuff

 

[Mark Rushmore]

Reflect on this, then protect the primaries with your life.

 

[Ready2Revolt]

How do we get these county and state chairs replaced? Is there a vote or are these people appointed?

 

[RonPaulwillWin]

I sit here and complain to the fact that these stories don't even get coverage on the sloow news days. I'm sure they could create some kind of drama about this.

 

[valis23]

Fyi

Remove Ted Gunderson's middle name from your google search. Not that I don't support him, (I have conversed with him a few times in the past), but you really need to know who he is, to understand what level of support to give him in this avenue.

 

[RonPaulwillWin]

Indirectly it will energize a lot of us young people. Any video documentation of suppression [bannage], ends up getting much more attention anyway.

 

[Antonius Stone]

former FBI investigator? lol!

Stomp them in court. now.

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

Hello.

Beware of blowback and overlooked angles on Dr. Paul's principles.

1. Beginning to start an investigation on an allegation of fraud is much different from emailing criminal "fraud" accusations today as if it already had been proved (innocent until proven guilty).

2. An investigation started by a Paulite with FBI connections can be spun to look like an abuse of government power to attack political enemies (like the allegations of Nixon or Clinton using IRS audits).

3. Do we want to regulate and criminalize more behaviors, or fewer behaviors?

4. Paulites are trying to overcome the internet-poll "spammer" reputation and this story includes Paulites allegedly double-voting in person.

I am concerned.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

 

[bc2208]

That's unreal, tech.