CFL - FB - Transparency, openess and control

[Andrew Ward]

Don't.......do not continue that thought process, period. Just stop.

My mistake. I apologize.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well...it's obviously a "we" and 'you" situation...no "us". sorry...I'll create my own movement locally. thanks for the info though..and good luck! tones

 

[Andrew Ward]

Well...it's obviously a "we" and 'you" situation...no "us". sorry...I'll create my own movement locally. thanks for the info though..and good luck! tones

tones,
I hope you become a member with a user account and connect with other activists on the CFL website. I believe that starting local movements that are focused on the goal of advancing liberty will be much more efficient this way.

 

[MRoCkEd]

tones,
I hope you become a member with a user account and connect with other activists on the CFL website. I believe that starting local movements that are focused on the goal of advancing liberty will be much more efficient this way.

yeah - if you don't want to donate to national CFL efforts (ie. stop the bailout campaign)
you can still take advantage of the social networking tools which allow you to connect with other members in your state, city, precinct, and county.
soon enough you will be able to utilize voter lists in order to make the most impact possible at the LOCAL level.

C4L grants us the tools to take back our precinct - but it's up to us to take it back!

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

soon enough you will be able to utilize voter lists in order to make the most impact possible at the LOCAL level.

I got my precinct list for $0.50 here in Fresno. I think anyone can get their precinct list or the entire precinct list for about $20 to $40 as well for their entire city.

Local efforts can still find the tools locally to take back their cities and local governments.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Lol..bless your heart Andrew...you sound like the Elitists in Washington that we are fighting against! Do it our way because we are wealthier, more intelligent etc etc etc..so let the central government run things..right? We're trying to break away from a central government..lol. Ask Dr. Paul. tones

 

[Andrew Ward]

Lol..bless your heart Andrew...you sound like the Elitists in Washington that we are fighting against! Do it our way because we are wealthier, more intelligent etc etc etc..so let the central government run things..right? We're trying to break away from a central government..lol. Ask Dr. Paul. tones

We're up against a centralized, coordinated system that is opposed to human freedom. A lot of liberty-loving folks are interested in some level of national coordination. I'm encouraging you to join and create a user account because I believe signing up will help your local efforts.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yet he runs the money bombs for the cfl?
http://www.teapartyforliberty.com/ contact - [email protected]

Are you sure he isn't affiliated in at least SOME form? No % earned or anything then correct? I know it says the site is ran independent of the cfl but I believe his other bombs in which he did make a % said the same exact things. I would assume the , NOT affiliated part to assume that he is NOT getting any form of commission of any kind then.

Either way, I am happy ron paul is onboard. For some reason however I just see him running the ship differently is all.

I guess many were thinking it was going to be more grassroots oriented instead of top down is all.

Either way.... once again, I do hope it does end up progressing into whatever the cfl was meant to be or should be and hope all goes well.

Burning bridges with the grassroots supporters and online communities won't get you there any faster however. I just hope the cfl remembers where all of their ideas actually came from...

What is the problem? IT IS grassroots-driven, from the perspective of getting something going in our local communities. The C4L is there to provide us tools, if and when, we want them. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Are you wanting some kind of shiny badge to pin on your lapel or WHAT? Geez.

If you want to take your country back, it is up to YOU. If you get something going and want some to take advantage of some tools that C4L has, then great. If you don't, then great. It's all UP TO YOU.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I have a question

How many of those of you bitching and moaning in this thread about how horrible C4L is, have even bothered to sign up with C4L so that you could peruse the site and see what tools are available to HELP THOSE WHO ARE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING IN THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITES?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Good that you have a resource page, and having read (or seen) majority of those items in the past, they are good quality.

But...
a) there is no new content there (they are all just links to resources hosted elsewhere)

b) it is "information overflow" -- and the minimal "order" that is present will really not assist anyone. Most people will be unable/unwilling to dig through all of that.

c) What people really need is something to "guide" them through the basics.

Andrew, here is one snippet of constructive feedback that you might want to consider.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

How many of those of you bitching and moaning in this thread about how horrible C4L is, have even bothered to sign up with C4L so that you could peruse the site and see what tools are available to HELP THOSE WHO ARE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING IN THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITES?

I have checked out the entire site, it is great. Not getting why you are freaking out though? It is almost like you didn't even read the thread.

It isn't the site that people are asking questions about but rather the style in which they are trying to run it. Many including myself assumed it to be a more grassroots driven site but if you have been reading it seems more top down.

Everyone will do what they want but to simply get pissed off because there are some who want to question the cfl and those within it makes zero sense.

THE CFL IS GREAT, stop bitching, leave them alone!
ok got the point lol.

 

[Pete]

It isn't the site that people are asking questions about but rather the style in which they are trying to run it. Many including myself assumed it to be a more grassroots driven site but if you have been reading it seems more top down.

Yes, the uninvolved CRITICS have reached consensus that the style of CFL is 'top down'. To quote myself from yesterday:

I don't understand why it is so feared that CFL will be 'top down'. From what I have seen so far, the national organization provides tools and offers ideas and suggestions about priorities and methods (e.g., good lists to use for recruiting, how to not waste time in canvassing) but does not dictate anything. We are free to form our own legal entities, to create our own flyers and presentations, to raise money and to spend it as we wish, etc. I expect that the market will bubble up the best ideas among the counties, districts, and states.

You are right that the CFL national entity is tightly controlled. There are two types of organization that could have been used: (a) an association of members with elected officers, or (b) a corporate or foundation style with officers appointed by the directors. CFL is the latter type, which is typical when the founders have a clear vision that they wish to maintain. After all, we all know what can happen in a democracy.

However, it is important to recognize that state and county CFLs will be their own entities. There will be no funneling of funds upward as one would expect in a Ponzi operation. Accordingly, the national CFL will have to earn its own way and, if it fails, the snake can grow a new head, so to speak. This is not to say that I expect failure, but merely wish to point out that local efforts are not entirely dependent on the national organization. The more everyone is on the same page, the better, certainly.

 

[llepard]

Blah blah blah. Warren Miller: a cancer on the Ron Paul movement.

To be honest, I don't have time to read all that, but you've made so many of the same arguments before. I respect your right to your opinions, but if you think you're doing good for the movement at all, you're not.

Warren, what are you trying to accomplish? Is everyone in CFL the enemy here?

Sorry, but after starting to read this post, I just didn't have any patience for it. You make J. Bradley Jansen look like a big soft teddy bear.

Bydlak, Ward, what the hell are you thinking?

WRellim is a heavy weight in this movement.

For starters, please answer Warren's question about where the money went and why you did not explain it correctly? People who gave to this campaign made real sacrifices to do so, and deserve full disclosure.

Alot of the money that RP has is because people like myself spent huge dollars to support this man. Would those money bombs have raised all of that money without the newspaper advertisements? I think not. Personally i spent over $300,000 and all I received was being treated like shit by people in the campaign. Not even a thank you phone call. Nothing. Those of us who are in this movement because we believe in the PRINCIPLES that RP stands for have a funny characteristic, we expect those principles to be adhered to.

As far as we are concerned we are the REAL PATRIOTS. As much as you may be trying to do the right things, all others are assumed to be guilty until proven innocent. FULL DISCLOSURE IS NECESSARY. Particularly from people who draw their compensation from sucking at the RP tit.

LWL

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

I like an organization where the officers and board are elected by the membership..paid membership. That's what I understand a grass roots non profit to be. I like transparancy...like a monthly treasury report and minutes from the board meetings. tones

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Those of us who are in this movement because we believe in the PRINCIPLES that RP stands for have a funny characteristic, we expect those principles to be adhered to.

STANDING OVATION!

-t

 

[TruthisTreason]

To quote McCain, "I'd like to see some sunshine".

 

[MRoCkEd]

The fact that Andrew Ward has come to the forums to answer questions is a good sign. I am glad to hear that the site will soon feature a FAQ/About section that will make everything more transparent.

 

[pacelli]

We'll worry about the IRS, thank you.


We do not have to disclose our donors to the government. There are also no contribution limits.

Since the CFL will worry about the IRS, you do not disclose your donors to the government, and there are no contribution limits, could you please find out whether donor contributions are tax deductible for members?

Thanks.

 

[MRoCkEd]

Since the CFL will worry about the IRS, you do not disclose your donors to the government, and there are no contribution limits, could you please find out whether donor contributions are tax deductible for members?

Thanks.

Because of Campaign for Liberty's tax-exempt status under IRC Sec. 501 (C) (4) and its state and federal legislative activities, contributions are not tax deductible as charitable contributions (IRC § 170) or as a business deduction (IRC § 162(e)(1)).

 

[Andrew Ward]

Bydlak, Ward, what the hell are you thinking?

Jonathan doesn't work for CFL. I've been respectful to WRellim.

For starters, please answer Warren's question about where the money went and why you did not explain it correctly? People who gave to this campaign made real sacrifices to do so, and deserve full disclosure.

I conveyed that we did not receive the remainder of the PCC money. It is in the hands of the Committee to Re-Elect Ron Paul, which has donated approximately 1 million to CFL. Not being a representative of the Committee to Re-Elect, I can't speak to the rest of the PCC money.

Alot of the money that RP has is because people like myself spent huge dollars to support this man. Would those money bombs have raised all of that money without the newspaper advertisements? I think not. Personally i spent over $300,000 and all I received was being treated like shit by people in the campaign. Not even a thank you phone call. Nothing. Those of us who are in this movement because we believe in the PRINCIPLES that RP stands for have a funny characteristic, we expect those principles to be adhered to.

I'm curious: who in the PCC treated you that way? Personally, I think highly of your efforts and sacrifices during the campaign. I think I speak for everyone who worked at HQ when I say: thank you so much for helping advance liberty.

As far as we are concerned we are the REAL PATRIOTS. As much as you may be trying to do the right things, all others are assumed to be guilty until proven innocent. FULL DISCLOSURE IS NECESSARY. Particularly from people who draw their compensation from sucking at the RP tit.

I'm confused.. who is guilty until proven innocent?