California May Reduce Carbon Emissions By Banning Black Cars

[Kraig]

Funny, coming from a guy who enters the thread sarcastically trumpeting "Wow, what a badass! ".

Other than yourself, who do you think you are fooling?

Actually I came to this thread well before then, if you notice.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

It's not a theory. It's a law. It's always true and does not need to be tested.

I guess the only remaining question is are you intentionally dense, or completely and blissfully unaware of the fact?

 

[Kraig]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/0901dnbusBCColor.2d3b24f.html

Nice post, pretty much what I expected anyways. This is an idiotic law brought to you by probably the most idiotic state government in this union.

 

[orafi]

I remember doing a science experiment that has some relevance to this in elementary school. What I was able to figure out as a dumb little kid, while our elected officials, who while adult, are too lame brained and hysterical to comprehend apparently, was that the exterior color of a wall of a container does not affect the interior temperature significantly of that container.

I used spray painted cardboard boxes (interior color vs exterior color samples) with a plastic window on a side each. I got a B+ on it

 

[nate895]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/0901dnbusBCColor.2d3b24f.html

Zuras went from pwned, to completely and utterly pwned.

 

[Zuras]

I guess the only remaining question is are you intentionally dense, or completely and blissfully unaware of the fact?

It is the most simple of elementary physics, 2+2. at least the theory. You can always induct from an established law if you use proper controls. Since you have not a shred of physics on your side, I suppose resolving to hurling insults is all you have left? We can do that. I'm many things. Dense isn't one of them, especially among company such as you.

 

[acptulsa]

Zuras went from pwned, to completely and utterly pwned.

Yeah. I feel bad. I detest slavery, but we own his ass lock, stock and barrel. We ought to be ashamed.

 

[Kraig]

It is the most simple of elementary physics, 2+2. at least the theory. You can always induct from an established law if you use proper controls. Since you have not a shred of physics on your side, I suppose resolving to hurling insults is all you have left? We can do that. I'm many things. Dense isn't one of them, especially among company such as you.

Testing real cars in real sunlight is real physics. Just a bit more than a shred. LOL The fact is, what you are saying is true, black absorbs more heat, what you are ignoring is that the amount of heat it absorbs is INSIGNIFICANT compared to the majority of heat that is absorbed through the windows. You lose.

 

[Zuras]

Zuras went from pwned, to completely and utterly pwned.

The red Lucerne was left to bake with its windows up. The white Impala started the test with its windows down a quarter of the way, and they were lowered all the way at 3:40 p.m. The black Saab had darkly tinted windows that were left up.


Underlined for the thinking impaired.

 

[nate895]

The red Lucerne was left to bake with its windows up. The white Impala started the test with its windows down a quarter of the way, and they were lowered all the way at 3:40 p.m. The black Saab had darkly tinted windows that were left up.


Underlined for the thinking impaired.

You understand, right, that the windows up makes it hotter.

If you totally opened the car, it would be the same temperature as the outside area surrounding it. If you shut it and just let the engine and sun bake it, it will heat up pretty fast. Heck, you can bake something in there if it was hot enough outside and you left it sitting there for long enough.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

At least this person has done research on the subject...

None of this surprised Jan Null, an adjunct professor of meteorology at San Francisco State University, who has done research on heat and sealed vehicles.

"The exterior of a black car gets hotter than a white car, but it does not get transferred to the interior any more than in a white car," he said. "Try this experiment: Take your hand and put it on the headliner. It's not very hot. The energy that heats up the inside of a car comes through the windows."

 

[Zuras]

You understand, right, that the windows up makes it hotter.

If you totally opened the car, it would be the same temperature as the outside area surrounding it. If you shut it and just let the engine and sun bake it, it will heat up pretty fast. Heck, you can bake something in there if it was hot enough outside and you left it sitting there for long enough.

If the windows are "gangster black"(pitch black windows), it will lower temperature as glass is one of the best insulators of heat on a car. At a minimum he should have left the windows down on all the cars, or get a black one without tinted black.

This wasn't a test/study or anything. This was a waste of time by a moron who probably didn't even do it, as anyone with half a brain would realize they were wasting their time with such a garbage in garbage out "test".

 

[Zuras]

At least this person has done research on the subject...

LOL. Ya, that's the problem. That's research to you.

Good God, you belong in a circus.

 

[dannno]

Has anybody told California

 

[Brian4Liberty]

LOL. Ya, that's the problem. That's research to you.

Are talking about Craig Eppling, the GM spokesman, or Jan Null, the Professor I was quoting?

I guess it's a pointless question, as you never address the current issue or answer any direct questions.

Did Mr. Eppling's demo for the reporter bother you? Was he deceptive? Was it misdirection? Misleading information? Leaving out of facts? Ignoring a few parameters? Sound familiar? If it annoys you, perhaps you should stop doing it.

 

[pcosmar]

Logic and facts seem to make little difference.

 

[Zuras]

Logic and facts seem to make little difference.

You've gotten better at the whole self-portrait thing. I take it your wrist is feeling better from the chronic masturbation.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Another "test" result related to the theory that you can "Reduce Carbon Emissions By Banning Black Cars". Still not completely scientific, as you would want identical cars except for color, and the interior temperature measurements. You would also want to do a second test with windows down.

And after that test, you would need to test if there is still a temp difference after the doors are opened, and/or windows opened. Additionally, you would need to test the theory that people would leave the a/c on longer in the black car after all of the above tests.

How much hotter is a black car than a white car in the sun?

Everyone knows that feeling of getting into a car that has been sitting closed up in the sun, the closest many of us will come to the flames of hell. Nobody likes it, and everyone knows that the darker the paint color, the hotter it will be. So is it completely crazy to buy a black or dark colored car? Probably millions of people have made car color purchasing decisions based on the idea that dark paint will just be too hot. Some of those people liked the look of dark colors and would have bought one if it weren't for the heat factor.

When I was buying my Toyota Prius, I was caught in this quandary. The two colors that I liked were the light Silver color, and a darker green-grey color called Tideland. My only concern was that the Tideland being darker might just be too hot. I searched the web and asked lots of folks looking for some kind of scientific, quantitative number... just how much warmer will dark colors be? Nobody seemed to really know, and I couldn't find any test results for different paint colors on the web.

So I did the tests myself.

Executive Summary:

For those who just want to know the results of the test, I'll tell you. The glass temperature (which I assume to be a proxy for interior temperature) varied only 5 to 6 degrees between the black and white cars on average. So I conclude that the interior temperature only varied somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 to 6 degrees. The paint temperature, however, varied by about 55 degrees, which is ten times as much. So it is indeed true that black paint is much hotter than white paint, but the interior of the black car isn't that much warmer than the white car.
...
Theories

How do we explain the difference between the paint temperatures and the glass temperatures? On first glance it seems like if the outside of the car is much hotter, then the interior must be much hotter too. I think there are several effects at work here:

1. Convection. The hotter the paint is, the more the air tends to rise around it, carrying the heat away from the interior. Also, any wind will tend to move the paint heat away from the car interior.

2. Insulation. The paint is physically separated from the interior in the case of the hood and trunk. And in the case of the roof, the roof liner has insulation that keeps the heat away.

You can think of the oven in your kitchen. No matter how long you keep the oven on at 425 degrees, you don't have to worry about the kitchen itself getting up to 425 degrees; convection takes some of the air from the oven out the exhaust vent, and insulation in the oven keeps heat inside. The oven does raise the temperature of the kitchen, but nowhere near 425 degrees.

All this can explain why the paint doesn't affect the interior temperature as much, but then why does the interior temperature rise in the sun anyway? I believe that direct absorption of the sun is the main reason that the cabins get hot. The sun gets absorbed partially by the UV filter in the windows, and largely by the surfaces of the car interior. The sun that hits the dashboard or seats turns into heat, and because it's happening directly in the interior of the car, it's directly affecting the interior temperature. This explains why putting a silver sun deflector in the front windshield helps so much to keep the car cool; it keeps the sun from being absorbed in the interior of the car.

Comparison with public perception

Before doing these tests, I did a poll on the prius yahoo group, asking what people thought the difference in interior temperatures would be between a black and a white car.
...
So 5 people guessed too low, and 23 people guessed too high. This indicates to me that the public's perception is not in line with reality. People think black cars are more uncomfortably hot inside than they actually are.

This is interesting partially because because public perception makes market realities. Certain car colors are actually worth more than other car colors on the used car market; many pricing engines require you to enter the color in order to get a quote. If these price differentials are even partially based on false perceptions around sun warming, then you could save money buying a darker used car if you like that color.

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/cartemp/index.htm

 

[nate895]

You've gotten better at the whole self-portrait thing. I take it your wrist is feeling better from the chronic masturbation.

That looks pretty insulting from a not very well established member to a well established one.

 

[Zuras]

That looks pretty insulting from a not very well established member to a well established one.

I don't care. Just like the founding forefathers of this country, we don't give a damn about established othodoxy or the landed gentry. If you do, don't ever call yourself a libertarian and don't post responses to me. I will treat you like a slug if you act like a slug. Simple as that.