California May Reduce Carbon Emissions By Banning Black Cars

[jkr]

this also is aginst carbon fiber that's unpainted, which by the way is lighter and better on efficency...and is a CONSTANT gain- you don't always "need" A/C

 

[acptulsa]

As far as I can see, it doesn't need to be proven because it would follow law of physics. You have no evidence to the contrary, thuse the onus would be on you to disprove the idea a black car consumes more energy to keep cool than a white car. To me, it's like saying "prove you exist". I don't have to.

Well, that's nice, Mr. Perfect Libertarian. I don't have to prove it--a fine scientific method. Now, tell us how applying this 'one size fits all' law benefits the person who lives in the mountains north of Redding and never uses an air conditioner.

And let's hear about your automotive engineering degree and your denial that (outside of the Mojave, of course) a black hood doesn't help keep your car's engine closer to its most efficient operating temperature while you're at it.

 

[jkr]

yes, Zuras strikes once more...have we considered on cool day this would prevent heater use? it CAN get cold in cally (and temperature is relative).

 

[acptulsa]

yes, Zuras strikes once more...have we considered on cool day this would prevent heater use? it CAN get cold in cally (and temperature is relative).

True, but for internal combustion powered vehicles (as contrasted to electrics) it doesn't much matter. Once the car gets warmed up, heat is a waste byproduct, and it is that wasted byproduct heat which gets transfered to the interior.

 

[Zuras]

Well, that's nice, Mr. Perfect Libertarian. I don't have to prove it--a fine scientific method. Now, tell us how applying this 'one size fits all' law benefits the person who lives in the mountains north of Redding and never uses an air conditioner.

And let's hear about your automotive engineering degree and your denial that (outside of the Mojave, of course) a black hood doesn't help keep your car's engine closer to its most efficient operating temperature while you're at it.

Do you know what a radiator is? If so, why ask such a dumb ass question?

 

[acptulsa]

Do you know what a radiator is? If so, why ask such a dumb ass question?

Obviously I do if I know what a heater core is, and I didn't ask any questions in that post. Furthermore, if you had read the thread you'd realize I was talking about keeping the car closer to operating temperature while it is parked, not while it is running. The Mojave actually gets hot enough to strain the cooling system; anywhere else anything that keeps the car closer to operating temperature while parked and not running is a boon to efficiency by shortening the warm-up period.

If you were half the physics whiz you claim to be you'd understand that.

 

[Zuras]

Obviously I do if I know what a heater core is, and I didn't ask any questions in that post.

Yes you did. Contrary to what you were taught in grade school, implied questions in rhetorical prose do not require question marks nor who/what/why/etc.

It's your error to not finish a sentence in which you are requesting feedback you do not know actually exhists without adding a question mark at the end of it.

Tell me about the rabbits, George? Implied question. In formal writing these can be ended with periods or question marks. In rhetorical prose they are preferably ended with question marks to avoid confusion/intent (or periods, depending on that intent). In this case it's a question mark because you are begging the question regarding something you do not know even exists.

Now you've gotten, what? A physics lesson, a history lesson, a grammar lesson, and a logic lesson from me all in one day. And I haven't even charged you -- yet.

Furthermore, if you had read the thread you'd realize I was talking about keeping the car closer to operating temperature while it is parked, not while it is running. The Mojave actually gets hot enough to strain the cooling system; anywhere else anything that keeps the car closer to operating temperature while parked and not running is a boon to efficiency by shortening the warm-up period.

The warm up period-- in California? C'mon. What kind of suspension of disbelief do you want me to walk around with to do anything other than snicker at such a ridiculous statement.

 

[acptulsa]

Tell me about the rabbits, George? Implied question.

In a word--no. That would be a request.

The warm up period-- in California? C'mon. What kind of suspension of disbelief do you want me to walk around with to do anything other than snicker at such a ridiculous statement.

Whereas that was a question without a question mark. Do you really contend that shortening the warmup period has no positive benefits?

And here's another question for you--are you a masochist? Because you really do seem to have an endless capacity--and even a healthy (or unhealthy) appetite--for being pwned...

Well, I've had enough of straightening you out for one day. Be as obnoxious as you like. I don't wish to be your partner in hijack any more today. If you pull your head out and learn some manners, well, that would indeed be different...

 

[Zuras]

Whereas that was a question without a question mark. Do you really contend that shortening the warmup period has no positive benefits?

And here's another question for you--are you a masochist? Because you really do seem to have an endless capacity--and even a healthy (or unhealthy) appetite--for being pwned...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

Ya, we'll "call it a draw".

 

[Brian4Liberty]

As far as I can see, it doesn't need to be proven because it would follow law of physics. You have no evidence to the contrary, thuse the onus would be on you to disprove the idea a black car consumes more energy to keep cool than a white car.

Lol! It's your theory, you have to prove it before it is implemented. Unless it is junk science for the government...then we understand.

There is no such thing as a perfect insulator, neither electric nor thermal, and even if there was, they wouldn't even put it in a car because the car would be worth more than a nasa shuttle.

Doesn't need to be perfect. A coat of rubberized paint, air space, a layer of board, and padded fabric make an ok insulator between the external skin of the car roof and the interior.

Funny you should mention the Space Shuttle. I actually worked on part of the thermal tiles project.

It's been fun, but pointless. Go buy a white car and save some gas. Leave the rest of us alone.

 

[Zuras]

Lol! It's your theory, you have to prove it before it is implemented. Unless it is junk science for the government...then we understand.

It's not a theory. It's a law. It's always true and does not need to be tested. It's actually two laws, first law of thermodynamics and Newton's law of cooling (should be called convection, but oh well).

Doesn't need to be perfect. A coat of rubberized paint, air space, a layer of board, and padded fabric make an ok insulator between the external skin of the car roof and the interior.

Ya, it does need to be perfect, which is impossible. Not only would it need to be the perfect insulator to mitigate the energy/heat from increased absoption, it would need to be fitted perfectly where the bodies are articulated, which is also impossible.

It's been fun, but pointless. Go buy a white car and save some gas. Leave the rest of us alone.

I'll keep my cars as I like my women, red and fast.

 

[Kraig]

I'll keep my cars as I like my women, red and fast.

Wow, what a badass!

 

[acptulsa]

Wow, what a badass!

It's no badass who beats his woman until her skin is red.

 

[Kraig]

It's no badass who beats his woman until her skin is red.

I guess you missed my sarcasm.

 

[acptulsa]

I guess you missed my sarcasm.

Nope. Caught it and liked it! Did you like the way I used his method of misrepresenting what someone says in order to discredit him? I thought it was a fine job of fighting fire with fire.

 

[Zuras]

I guess you missed my sarcasm.

Jealous God gave you the short end of the wit?

Hah.

 

[Kraig]

Jealous God gave you the short end of the wit?

Hah.

No. Why are you trying to pick a fight? You aren't impressing anyone, you're making a fool of yourself.

 

[Zuras]

No. Why are you trying to pick a fight? You aren't impressing anyone, you're making a fool of yourself.

Funny, coming from a guy who enters the thread sarcastically trumpeting "Wow, what a badass! ".

Other than yourself, who do you think you are fooling?

 

[orafi]

Hey, if this works, we can fix global warming by banning white people! Then, black people can absorb the heat, cool down the earth, and at the same time, well remove 99 percent of all our politicians from office (Ron Paul is the one exception).

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Forget the myth about black paint and hot cars

By TERRY BOX/DMN

Twenty years ago, when I was young and dumb, I bought a black Volkswagen GTI. Want to know the most toxic element in that combustible mix? The color. For a while, before the rattles and oil leaks started, the GTI was a great, soulful little driver. But my most vivid memory of the car was having to take off my shirt in August so I could use it to open the door after leaving the car in direct sunlight for hours.

For 20 years, I have urged people in this shadeless, concrete-slathered sector of Texas to avoid black cars because they are generally hotter than the surface of the sun.

As it turns out, I was only partly right – a surprising discovery I made recently during a little experiment conducted by Craig Eppling, the regional head of public relations for General Motors Corp.

Here's the bottom line: If we've met at a party sometime over the years and I told you to stay away from black, pretend I was drunk.

Mr. Eppling, who has been active this summer in programs that combat the very serious problem of people leaving their kids and pets in sealed cars, proved me wrong in one hot afternoon.

He parked a red Buick Lucerne, a white Chevrolet Impala and a black Saab SUV on a concrete parking lot in Carrollton one afternoon in mid-July. All were late-model, low-mileage vehicles.

There were thermometers in each car, and readings were taken every five minutes between 2 p.m. and 4:30 p.m.

The temperature outside ranged from a toasty 93 to a torrid 102.

The red Lucerne was left to bake with its windows up. The white Impala started the test with its windows down a quarter of the way, and they were lowered all the way at 3:40 p.m. The black Saab had darkly tinted windows that were left up.

At 4:20 p.m., when the temperature hit 102 degrees outside, the black Saab with gangster glass rolled up tight registered an interior temperature of 125.8. The white Impala with the windows down had an interior temperature of 127.2 degrees, and the red Lucerne with untinted windows up all the way was sizzling at 139.5 degrees.

All those temperatures are dangerous to kids, pets and older adults. The Lucerne could be lethal.

None of this surprised Jan Null, an adjunct professor of meteorology at San Francisco State University, who has done research on heat and sealed vehicles.

"The exterior of a black car gets hotter than a white car, but it does not get transferred to the interior any more than in a white car," he said. "Try this experiment: Take your hand and put it on the headliner. It's not very hot. The energy that heats up the inside of a car comes through the windows."

That can be serious business in August in desert locales like Baghdad or Dallas.

"In the first 10 minutes, the temperature inside a car with the windows rolled up will rise 19 degrees," Mr. Null said. "In the next 10, it goes up another 10 degrees. After an hour, it's usually up 43 degrees."

Some areas of a vehicle get even hotter.

On a 95-degree day, for example, asphalt street surfaces will hit a temperature of 150 degrees. The top surface of a black dashboard typically reaches 175 degrees.

"Some slow-cook recipes use that temperature," he said.

Now that I'm older and slightly wiser, please let me amend two decades of advice. Buy a government-issue white vehicle and get the windows tinted dark. It might not look great, but it will be cool in a real-world way.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/0901dnbusBCColor.2d3b24f.html