Bypass the Internet!

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FreeMind&Market

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Nov 28, 2007
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With all the talk about SOPA, etc, here's an interesting post to consider:
http://www.kurzweilai.net/bypass-the-internet

I’m sick of hearing about how we need to cave in to repressive governments and throttle back Google, Twitter, Facebook, and other information services and accept Web censorship and limits on free expression. Get the hell off my cloud.

“If a full-surveillance world prevents us from speaking, then we need to make another platform where freedom of speech and freedom of thought can be maintained,” as futurist Ian Pearson puts it.

“I’ve written a number of times about jewelery nets and sponge nets. These could do the trick. With very short-range communication directly between tiny devices that each of us wears just like jewellery, a sponge network can be built that provides zillions of paths from A to B, hopping from device to device till it gets there.

No ISPs needed

“Each device is autonomous. Each shares data with its immediate neighbors, and route dynamically according to a range of algorithms available to them. They can route data from A to B so that every packet goes by a different route of need be. Even without any encryption, only A and B can see the full message.

“The capability to make these kinds of devices is almost here. If some government officials don’t like it, well, so what? Right now, I don’t have a lot of respect for government.”

Right on. Anybody out there developing these nets? Let’s hear from you!
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In some countries PGP (pretty good privacy) which is the ultimate in encryption is illegal. So even if the technology comes out all they have to do is make it illegal due to keeping us safe from terrorists.
 
Gary4Liberty said:
In some countries PGP (pretty good privacy) which is the ultimate in encryption is illegal. So even if the technology comes out all they have to do is make it illegal due to keeping us safe from terrorists.
Click to expand...

Drugs are illegal too. Bypassing government filters in China are illegal....and people do it. The Chinese recently gave up on filtering out porn. I think the porn was too much of an incentive for people to break the security wall and open holes which allowed other content to pass through. And there are some forms of encryption that are virtually undetectable.

That said, the article in the OP isn't talking about encryption over the Internet. It's talking about another network altogether. Banning that would be like trying to ban walkie talkies.
 
jmdrake said:
Drugs are illegal too. Bypassing government filters in China are illegal....and people do it. The Chinese recently gave up on filtering out porn. I think the porn was too much of an incentive for people to break the security wall and open holes which allowed other content to pass through. And there are some forms of encryption that are virtually undetectable.

That said, the article in the OP isn't talking about encryption over the Internet. It's talking about another network altogether. Banning that would be like trying to ban walkie talkies.
Click to expand...

then i'm sure the president would start a "war on walkie talkies"
 
jim49er said:
Can't programs like tor do this? If not whats the best free one out if any?
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It seems you may be missing the point that the technology in question differs at Layer 1. TOR is ultimately a Layer 3 protocol and can be implemented on any Layer 1 transport medium. It is at Layer 1 - physical transport - that the mercy of government lies. One cannot transmit data at any level if Layer 1 connectivity is not present. It is the actual, physical wire... or radio signal that gets the bits from point A to point B. For extremely short hauls, an 802.11 router does the jobs as witnessed in millions of homes. But for longer range transport we are all dependent on access to edge switches which in turn communicate with core switches and which, taken as a whole, comprise the "internet". Most long haul IOC traffic flows over physical media, but some hops are radio. It is ALL owned by government-controlled carriers who must, at the very least, toe the regulatory line of the FCC. Failure to do so can result in fatal consequences for any carrier and I am absolutely certain that every carrier is in violation of at least a few FCC tariffs and regulations, which no doubt FCC takes note of and places in their back pockets in case down the road someone gets the idea that a government request is unreasonable. FCC has HUGE power over all telecommunications and can cripple a carrier literally from one minute to the next.

The technology in the OP suggests bypassing the entrenched and government-controlled Layer 1 infrastructure completely. A friend of mine and I did some brain storming on this very subject about 10 years ago. It is eminently doable, but there remains the FCC issue. They hold what amounts to despotic control over radio communications. This control was marginally justifiable in the 1930s when technologies did not allow for optimal frequency utilization. Today, however, with technologies such as spread-spectrum, there is not longer any technical reason that the FCC should so much as exist, much less have any say about what is used or how. The development of such technology represents a high-risk proposition, in both the entrepreneurial and legal senses. Use of such technologies would almost of necessity start out as pirate in nature. I could readily see manufacturers becoming outlaws and their facilities seized. Any open-source designs for home manufacture would likely be met with legislation making the possession and operation of such equipment a felony, punishable with draconian measures.

In other words, the technology in question is at best a palliative measure. The real problem is the underlying tyranny. We should not have to live like this for any reason. The time is here and I must say that our options are painfully narrow. So narrow, in fact, that we are rapidly approaching the shit-or-get-off-the-pot decision point, which I am afraid is going to necessitate material non-equivocation to reclaim that which is not theirs to take nor control in any way. I suppose that means that I no longer hold any reasonable expectation of reclamation through "the system", meaning I fear we will ultimately choose to do nothing because sufficient inducement will not present itself. On the whole, most people do not give a damn about their freedom. How can one care about that which they do not understand, nor with which they have any appreciable experience? It has taken these generations to steer people away from the blessings of liberty and those responsible have succeeded beyond what I am sure their wildest expectations could have been. The door to liberty is now but the weest bit ajar and the bastards have but to give it that final tap and it is adios. But I digress... as usual. So sorry.
 
Gary4Liberty said:
In some countries PGP (pretty good privacy) which is the ultimate in encryption is illegal. So even if the technology comes out all they have to do is make it illegal due to keeping us safe from terrorists.
Click to expand...

The important thing isn't so much that it is legal or not, it is whether it is controllable by the government.
 
Tod said:
The important thing isn't so much that it is legal or not, it is whether it is controllable by the government.
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I design spread spectrum communications equipment. Creating a new network is certainly possible if enough people were willing to invest in it. It would even be possible to do within the current laws. Using spread spectrum, I believe it would be possible to evade most jamming techniques. No need to get rid of the current protocols. TCP/IP obviously works fine as is. Having said that, it is probably hard to imagine the scope of the current implementation of the Internet with regards the variety of communications equipment and performance levels needed to compete with what people have come to expect from the net. Creating private, regional networks is definitely within reach right now. Creating a new non-government controlled network on a global scale is probably just a dream...
 
The government would be able to control this like they control drugs, poverty, and raw milk. Not very well. No faith that they would be able to do it, which makes it a great idea IMO. I think I've heard about long range routers on here before (3 mile range up to 30). It would be possible at that point.
 
Tod said:
The important thing isn't so much that it is legal or not, it is whether it is controllable by the government.
Click to expand...

It is controllable, albeit not completely in a direct manner. Under "normal" circumstances, there is no need to control it in-toto. What counts is that government has the legislative or policy-derived authority to control it in principle. This allows for selective enforcement against persons of interest. Short of a circumstance of widespread civil insurrection, government has no need to control this in any meaningfully broad sense. But in specific cases it is absolutely necessary to have the authority to make examples of those who transgress such that the rest tread more lightly. This is what astute despotism is about and not goose-stepping, frothing-at-the-mouth madmen moving armies against vast populations of his own citizens.

Making it illegal renders all using it criminals and that is really all they want. It provides the levers necessary to exercise control as deemed necessary.
 
Mesh networks do exist to a point, San Fran has a large number of meraki units to free the net. A variety of other areas use their gear, along with other mesh providers. There are a number of open source projects to convert cheap wifi gear to mesh. So last mile alternatives are out there but - long haul is the problem. I could see city wide networks easily but I just don't see a way to do any sort of distance as doable. We'd be back to the BBS days, a local group having connection and then sneaker net to get new things. I don't see hooking up to railroad lines like the old underground radio stations did working for long...

I owned an ISP for a decade, until Bush Jr and Powel's Kid running the FCC rolled back the telco reform that forced competition on the gov mandated monopolies. Some ISPs transitioned to wireless ISPs but last mile is simply a bitch to do in any sort of cost effective way in anyplace that's flat and has lots of trees. But if you're talking about replacing not just last mile, but city to city, it's a challenge that radio just can't solve right now and still be 'anonymous'. The high towers or high power radios would be a dead giveaway.

Now using current tech Tor is a workable solution for simple things. It wasn't designed for file sharing so don't expect fast torrent speeds through it. But it is obvious you're tunneling some sort of encryption over your connection. Besides, if the 'net was criminalized what's to stop network scanners from identifying people? Maps of Wifi exist - wigle.net - so it'd be trivial to find any homeowner using another network.

With that said I could see the place for small devices that allowed localized networks. Walk into a crowded area and transfer files that are tagged to something you're after. Bluetooth allows this already with cell phones but 30 feet at best limits the anonymous nature you're after.
 
Now using current tech Tor is a workable solution for simple things. It wasn't designed for file sharing so don't expect fast torrent speeds through it. But it is obvious you're tunneling some sort of encryption over your connection. Besides, if the 'net was criminalized what's to stop network scanners from identifying people? Maps of Wifi exist - wigle.net - so it'd be trivial to find any homeowner using another network.
Ty kpitcher

But what is the best everyday solution to all the sites spying on us like google with the new laws thats legal?
 
For everyday web browsing I recommend firefox with Ad Block Plus https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adblock-plus/
This not only cuts down on annoying advertising, it cuts a lot of the hidden cookie tracking.

For more anonymous web browsing use Tor if you're concerned about being tracked.

Here is a link to a firefox web browser with Tor. It's a separate browser so you just run it when you want protection. No need for any special settings it's as newbie friendly as possible.

There are no laws against encryption in the US, far too many business users using VPNs to get to the office. You will notice website run slower but it's not drastic. If it's not a media centric site like YouTube or other streaming it's perfectly fine. With that said there are also plenty of laws that allow snooping, even in realtime, of your VOIP or Internet traffic. So encryption is a good thing.

https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en

If you're not looking for non-web browsing file sharing those are two good tips for safer browsing. Be away that research has shown if you hit a tor end node that is compromised it isn't a guarantee of anonymity, if the site you visit has things like usernames you type in it may be possible to steal those if those are also clear text (Non https)
 
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