Bush signs "gay rights" bill

[lucius]

I don't like the idea of the government give "rights", which then just makes them privileges that can be taken away.
Our population needs to wake up.

Agree, but in general I don't think joe/jane six-pack has what it takes to function in a constitutional republic. You see it for what it is.

A call from 2600 years ago: “Only enlightened humans can sustain enlightened leadership. In a democracy, the very survival of the state depends upon the intelligent cooperation of its people. They must live according to all aspects of the statutes which they have framed; no one is above the law. The ideal state, laws are few and simple, derived from certainties. In the corrupt state, laws are many and confused, because they have been derived from uncertainties. These corrupt laws are like the web of a spider which catches small insects but permits the stronger creatures to break through and escape.” Solon

 

[Matt Collins]

Until you can understand that I said I did not agree with it, don't talk to me.

You just said "I cannot fault him for this".

But he just violated his oath (again) to uphold the Constitution.

How can you not fault him for this?! He CLEARLY violated his oath of office


This isn't about being gay. This is about our elected officials upholding their promises and following the law.

 

[asimplegirl]

You just said "I cannot fault him for this".

But he just violated his oath (again) to uphold the Constitution.

How can you not fault him for this?! He CLEARLY violated his oath of office


This isn't about being gay. This is about our elected officials upholding their promises and following the law.

Look, I don't know about you but I don't look at Bush like he is some leader that upholds morality..lol...He has done MUCH worse than allowing gays to have rights.

I SAID I didn't agree with it, but I believe he was trying to reach out, and do what he felt right, whether it was or wasn't is not an issue to me, I know which it was.

I will not fault someone for doing what they believe to be right. I just wont.

You should connect that statement with the entire post above it. It was relevant to that, not just by itself.

 

[Matt Collins]

He has done MUCH worse than allowing gays to have rights.

Of course he has, but we're not talking about that in this thread, we're talking about this specific issue. And one violation of the Constitution is just as illegal as another.

I will not fault someone for doing what they believe to be right. I just wont.

Riiiight. So the cop who goes out and beats a drug dealer to a bloody pulp before arresting them is ok because they thought they were doing something "right"?

Or the elected representatives who pass hate speech or hate crime laws are ok because they thought they were "right"?

INTENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. It doesn't matter how the person feels, or if they think they were doing "the right thing". What matters is if the elected officials in this country actually uphold the Constitution.

Try to think through things before you post. It will serve you better

 

[Danke]

I haven't read the bill, but I'd imagine it is not unconstitutional. From what I read here, it deals with estate taxes. Well, those don't fall under rights, but privileges. If your property is not federally connected, nothing changes, gay or straight.

 

[LibertyEagle]

INTENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. It doesn't matter how the person feels, or if they think they were doing "the right thing". What matters is if the elected officials in this country actually uphold the Constitution.

WOOT!! Well-said, Matt.

 

[asimplegirl]

Of course he has, but we're not talking about that in this thread, we're talking about this specific issue. And one violation of the Constitution is just as illegal as another.

Riiiight. So the cop who goes out and beats a drug dealer to a bloody pulp before arresting them is ok because they thought they were doing something "right"?

Or the elected representatives who pass hate speech or hate crime laws are ok because they thought they were "right"?

INTENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. It doesn't matter how the person feels, or if they think they were doing "the right thing". What matters is if the elected officials in this country actually uphold the Constitution.

Try to think through things before you post. It will serve you better

Nope, I still wouldn't fault them for doing what they felt was right. I would, however, just as in Bush's cause, fault him with breaking the law, or DOING the wrong...but not for doing what they thought was right...everyone is led in a different way, and everyone has their own moral compass. Sorry, but I will not budge on this.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Nope, I still wouldn't fault them for doing what they felt was right. I would, however, just as in Bush's cause, fault him with breaking the law, or DOING the wrong...but not for doing what they thought was right...everyone is led in a different way, and everyone has their own moral compass. Sorry, but I will not budge on this.

It seems you're still failing to distinguish "intent" from "action and consequence". We are dealing with the latter here. Alexander Hamilton claimed to have good intent, but look what he did. (Aaron Burr FTW! )

 

[LibertyEagle]

Nope, I still wouldn't fault them for doing what they felt was right. I would, however, just as in Bush's cause, fault him with breaking the law, or DOING the wrong...but not for doing what they thought was right...everyone is led in a different way, and everyone has their own moral compass. Sorry, but I will not budge on this.

I'm sorry, I must not understand. Are you saying that it's ok if someone goes against the Constitution, as long as he/she felt it was "right"? Surely not.

 

[Matt Collins]

everyone is led in a different way, and everyone has their own moral compass.

This has NOTHING to do with morality or a moral compass. It has to do with breaking the law. MORALITY |= legality.

The Constitution says he's not allowed to do it. He does it anyway, regardless of his intentions, he has just broken the law. That cannot and should not be tolerated.

Why can you not grasp this simple concept?

 

[asimplegirl]

No, I do not agree it is right. I think it was completely wrong. I think it was horrible. I think people should be freaking out.

But, I will not fault someone for doing what they feel led to do. I think you should follow your heart.

This does not mean I support it by any means at all. I also think if you do something, you have to be able to deal with the consequences.

I know that that was not being questioned...but I was called out for saying it, and am just defending it.

I usually try to tell people about this...I understand his reasoning, even though I do not agree. I give the same right to anyone else when dealing with me.

 

[SeanEdwards]

It seems you're still failing to distinguish "intent" from "action and consequence". We are dealing with the latter here. Alexander Hamilton claimed to have good intent, but look what he did. (Aaron Burr FTW! )

I was in a supermarket the other night, and the guy in front of me in the checkout line was discussing something with the clerk. I wasn't really listening, but then I heard the clerk commenting on the $10 bill he was holding, saying something like "I don't know why he never became a President."

I think I may have facepalmed right there in the line.

 

[Matt Collins]

But, I will not fault someone for doing what they feel led to do. I think you should follow your heart.

Well fortunately you are wrong, at least when it comes to the law and policy.

My heart tells me I want my friend's wife... should I go and take her? My heart says that I should work to get as much money from the government as I can. Should I work to scam the government? My heart tells me I want my parents to kick early so I can get my inheritance. Should I poison their food?


Use your brain to think... try it some time... you might actually gain some respect that way.

 

[asimplegirl]

I said that it was wrong. Can you not get that?

And yes, you should if you are willing to accept the consequences of others believing it wrong, and you really think it is right.

You might gain some respect if you didn't act as some sort of authority, yet revert to treating someone as if they are below you and humiliating them to show said authority of the subject. That only shows that you do not know enough to stay consistent enough to just use facts.

BTW, you cannot argue opinion.

My OPINION is that you should follow your heart. The fact is that what he did was wrong. So, what exactly are you arguing with?

 

[Matt Collins]

BTW, you cannot argue opinion.

My OPINION is that you should follow your heart.

Yes I can. Your opinion is incorrect or wrong. When one is in a position to make legal decisions, "following your heart" is the worst thing you could do because it could lead you to break the law as GW has demonstrated.

 

[asimplegirl]

OPINONS ARE NOT RIGHT OR WRONG,THEY ARE OPINION.

o·pin·ion (-pnyn)
n.
1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

 

[asimplegirl]

And, as far as following your heart leading you to break the law, as I said if you believe it to be right, law doesn't matter anyway, does it? Right is right to you.

You should do what you believe to be right no matter what, but you should always be prepared to pay the consequences.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

I don't like the idea of the government give "rights", which then just makes them privileges that can be taken away.
Our population needs to wake up.

Didn't our founders state something similar to this? that government does not give rights to it's citizens. If this is the case then Government becomes God?!?!This is why they are bestowed upon us by our creator(s) instead of by governments.

Just can't remember the quote or who said it exactly...besides Torchbearer that is.

 

[Freedom 4 all]

Seriously who gives a flying fuck, this is Bush we're talking about. Considering what he did to the constitution beforehand, this little bill is like forcing the Constitution to shower after raping her repeatedly.

 

[asimplegirl]

Exactly what I said, he holds no moral high ground.