Bullion Depository/Fort Knox

berrybunches

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I was explaining to my father that we do not back up our money with gold anymore (I was very surprised he did not know this) and he asked me "what about all the gold in Fort Knox?"

I understand that it was shipped there after we left the gold standard but what purpose is it serving now?

Sorry if this is a stupid question...all I have known about government for nearly my whole life is Fox news and my high school history books. I am learning quickly tho.
 
As far as we know it's still there. I like in KY and it's definitely one of the most heavily guarded places in the country. What is it's purpose? Well...it's like all that land that the government owns out west they have it to sell or to use if needed.
 
okay thanks! Thats the answer I expected really....half the things the gov does has no good purpose.
 
Its heavly guarded to insure that the american people never fin out that the FED stole all of americas gold in exchange for worthless paper.
 
I thought I saw an official documentary on Fort Knox not too long ago that discussed the fact that alot of the gold was at the Fed now. Damn me for not paying closer attention.
 
This may be wildly off base, and perhaps off-topic in this thread, but it's something I've considered true for a long while.

Our money isn't worthless paper. It is backed by something and it is probably something that most people have never stopped to think about.

Each and every Federal reserve note is backed by "the full faith and credit of the United States." Most strong money people seem only to look at the first part of that statement and equate the faith portion with worthless printed paper.

I find the second part more interesting, the credit portion. I may be drawing a false conclusion here, but the government does have considerable assets with which to back the currency. They hold, as custodians of we the people, every acre of federal land, every un-leased or unsold mineral and timber right, all of the licensable electromagnetic spectrum, plus the precious metals reserves found in places like Ft. Knox and probably other assets I've overlooked. All told it likely adds up to trillions of dollars.

Now, what happens if the federal government does approach insolvency or the nation-state equivalent? Either they repudiate the outstanding debt obligations, enact enormous tax hikes and/or massive benefits cuts, OR pay the debts using some of the previously listed assets...

One problem (as I see things) is that there is no effort to tie a realistic valuation of our assets with the face value of the currency we DO print. There is nothing special about gold or the gold standard, EXCEPT that it limits the total dollar amount of currency in circulation, thus making each dollar "worth," a calculable quantity compared to a relatively fixed other substance. It would be as valid a system, in terms of fixing the dollar to a tangible asset, to have a "federal lands reserve note (land standard)."

Or maybe I am way off base...?
 
This may be wildly off base, and perhaps off-topic in this thread, but it's something I've considered true for a long while.

Our money isn't worthless paper. It is backed by something and it is probably something that most people have never stopped to think about.

Each and every Federal reserve note is backed by "the full faith and credit of the United States." Most strong money people seem only to look at the first part of that statement and equate the faith portion with worthless printed paper.

I find the second part more interesting, the credit portion. I may be drawing a false conclusion here, but the government does have considerable assets with which to back the currency. They hold, as custodians of we the people, every acre of federal land, every un-leased or unsold mineral and timber right, all of the licensable electromagnetic spectrum, plus the precious metals reserves found in places like Ft. Knox and probably other assets I've overlooked. All told it likely adds up to trillions of dollars.

Now, what happens if the federal government does approach insolvency or the nation-state equivalent? Either they repudiate the outstanding debt obligations, enact enormous tax hikes and/or massive benefits cuts, OR pay the debts using some of the previously listed assets...

One problem (as I see things) is that there is no effort to tie a realistic valuation of our assets with the face value of the currency we DO print. There is nothing special about gold or the gold standard, EXCEPT that it limits the total dollar amount of currency in circulation, thus making each dollar "worth," a calculable quantity compared to a relatively fixed other substance. It would be as valid a system, in terms of fixing the dollar to a tangible asset, to have a "federal lands reserve note (land standard)."

Or maybe I am way off base...?

The big problem is that we are the largest debtor nation in the world now.
 
This may be wildly off base, and perhaps off-topic in this thread, but it's something I've considered true for a long while.

Our money isn't worthless paper. It is backed by something and it is probably something that most people have never stopped to think about.

Each and every Federal reserve note is backed by "the full faith and credit of the United States." Most strong money people seem only to look at the first part of that statement and equate the faith portion with worthless printed paper.

I find the second part more interesting, the credit portion. I may be drawing a false conclusion here, but the government does have considerable assets with which to back the currency. They hold, as custodians of we the people, every acre of federal land, every un-leased or unsold mineral and timber right, all of the licensable electromagnetic spectrum, plus the precious metals reserves found in places like Ft. Knox and probably other assets I've overlooked. All told it likely adds up to trillions of dollars.

Now, what happens if the federal government does approach insolvency or the nation-state equivalent? Either they repudiate the outstanding debt obligations, enact enormous tax hikes and/or massive benefits cuts, OR pay the debts using some of the previously listed assets...

One problem (as I see things) is that there is no effort to tie a realistic valuation of our assets with the face value of the currency we DO print. There is nothing special about gold or the gold standard, EXCEPT that it limits the total dollar amount of currency in circulation, thus making each dollar "worth," a calculable quantity compared to a relatively fixed other substance. It would be as valid a system, in terms of fixing the dollar to a tangible asset, to have a "federal lands reserve note (land standard)."

Or maybe I am way off base...?

Here is the problem as I see it.

With trade the way it is and electronic currency trading quite possible and easy, currency is basically just another commodity. Here in the US you can buy and sell Euros or Pounds or Yen, and the rest of the world does the same thing with dollars.

For the past 10? 20? (I don't know the real number) years, Dollars have been the primary export of the US, because other countries use our currency as their reserve currency (basically, other countries back their currency with the commodity "Dollars" rather than gold).

But, there is a limit to how many dollars a given country needs or even wants to be holding. The only way for Dollars to get used up is to spend them, which is why other countries' Sovereign Wealth Funds are buying parts of our banks and other assets.

That is one problem. The other problem is that unlike most commodities, the US can create more Dollars (or FRNs) out of thin air. As far as I understand it, the only thing stopping the government from creating $1 quadrillion in FRNs today is that it would inflate our currency 1000%. That is, just like any other commodity, if there is suddenly 10x as much of it, but the same demand, it is worth 1/10 what it used to be worth.

When the $ was tied to gold (i.e. you could exchange your $1 for a fixed amount of gold), then the $ wasn't really a separate commodity - it was IOUs for gold, and gold was the real commodity.

So, yes, the "full faith and credit" of our government might back the $, but it doesn't have any inherent value. Our government is free to inflate it however much they want - they could issue 1 billion times as many FRNs today as there are in existence right now, and then they would all be worthless. This is the bigger problem.
 
And you can't sue the Federal Government so who is going to make them pay up? Are you going to turn them over to a collections agency?
 
And you can't sue the Federal Government so who is going to make them pay up? Are you going to turn them over to a collections agency?

Not to mention we have $9 trillion of debt and $54 trillion in obligations...

This is my major reason for backing Ron Paul. He is the only politician willing to confront the problem.
 
Ron's message has made me totally reevaluate my financial position and how I invest. I make sure that I have physical stores of values instead of stocks and such so I won't end up being one of the "I lost everything" horror stories if the economy fails.

If you have Gold, Silver, Copper etc not only does it usually earn more profit than the equal amount of cash in the bank but if the dollar becomes worthless other people will still want and need those commodities and they will be exchangable for goods.
 
JSutter, what could happen is this (based on my limited understanding of economics): Because of our massive spending, we are currently absolutely dependent upon two things for the dollar's continued survival:
1.) We are dependent upon the faith that bankers around the world have in the dollar. This is because we need to take loans from them to finance our overweight government. If bankers (many of which ironically have a huge stake in the Fed...) lose confidence, they'll simply stop loaning to us, and the US Government will go bankrupt.
2.) Taxes and loans alone do not cover governmental expenses and the payments on our loans, so we make up for the difference by printing money. We are dependent upon globalist bankers to accept our inflated dollars as payments on our debt.

Obviously, this money-printing also steals from every person who owns dollars. If we treat the economy like a corporation, the number of dollars you own is the number of shares you own. When the Fed prints money, it's like the corporation doing a stock split (obviously a very uneven one though, not 2:1 or anything)...except instead of each shareholder getting their rightful stake in new shares, the corporation itself keeps ownership of all of the new shares it made, which steals from every shareholder. Our dollar today is worth about 4 cents or so compared to our dollar when the Federal Reserve was created...so essentially, they've stolen about 96 cents on every dollar (clearly, the rate of money-printing has far exceeded the rate of economic productivity and growth, otherwise we'd have a lot more dollars in circulation but they'd still be worth the same).

Clearly, our country is not down to 4% of the wealth we once had, since only some of it left the economy for the hands of foreign bankers. Probably most of these dollars found their way back into circulation in our domestic economy, resulting in price inflation and wage inflation. Wage inflation happens much slower though, which is partially because America's economy overall does bleed some wealth due to our debt payments and trade deficits. Losing wealth means that the economy naturally becomes poorer and smaller overall (even just by a little). This means there's less money to go around, fewer successful companies, less competition, etc., which leads to a diminished number of available jobs. This results in a higher supply of workers than demand for them, causing lower wages. The rate at which wages inflate (from more paper dollars) will exceed the rate at which they diminish from a smaller, poorer economy, but the net rate of wage increases will obviously be slower than the rate of price increases.

So really, inflation steals from every dollar-holder in two ways:
1.) It steals buying power and gives it to creditors and subsidized corporations (...Halliburton...).
2.) Although some of that money will come back to you, the buying power will continue to decrease.

Hence, Ron Paul is right when he says that monetary inflation benefits the wealthy for a while, but it destroys the middle class...and of course, that eventually leads to an economic collapse, since way too much money is concentrated in a few hands at the top and nobody can afford anything anymore.

However, if that does not happen first, something else will: If we continue on our current inflationary course, our creditors will eventually decide, "We're not going to get a suitable return on our investment," and it will be loan default time. The US government will go bankrupt and the dollar will crash. At this point, creditors can try to collect on the government's collateral ;) This is where it gets interesting...the government can either make good on this and fall into nonexistence (very bad for us...such a scenario would probably usher in the NAU or something to that effect), cut some kind of a compromise deal (same), or it can belligerently declare its debts null and void and try to keep its hold on country...which would almost certainly result in war. Even if other countries didn't declare war on us, they would never allow us to buy their goods (because our money is worthless to them). Our economy would become pretty much isolated from the rest of the world, and due to the fact that a lot of our manufacturing has moved overseas, it may not be able to be self-sufficient anymore anyway. In that case, our own government would go to war for resources and/or trading privileges again ;) In any case, I'd almost be somewhat morbidly curious to see how the economics of such a war effort would play out...with no-confidence paper money worth less than the dollar it's printed on, there'd almost certainly have to be some kind of fascist system in place where the government forces corporations to direct industrial production toward the war effort.

So basically, an economic collapse is eventually coming, since inflation and corporate welfare are destroying the middle class (corporate welfare is another topic, but the results are similar to part of my explanation above about the results of a smaller, poorer economy: corporate welfare severely hampers competition overall, reduces the size of the economy, yada yada, wages go down and corporations exploit workers and consumers). If the wealth gap does not cause economic collapse first, our dollar will eventually fall out. Interestingly enough, some of our creditors are likely also huge shareholders in the Federal Reserve, so when it comes down to it, they're kind of printing money and giving it to themselves to make payments on the loans they gave us, which is bleeding America's economy dry faster and faster (obviously it's not quite like this, since the Fed has many shareholders, but still!). They can really decide whenever they want that they've milked us for all we're worth, at which point they'll stop loaning money and cause the dollar collapse - and try to collect the collateral. Of course, that's a risky move - the government may play nice, or it may not. Heh...no matter what, it's bad for us.
 
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"Clearly, our country is not down to 4% of the wealth we once had, since only some of it left the economy for the hands of foreign bankers."

I don't think it's as low as 4% but we've lost a lot if you also factor in all of the real estate, corporations, etc that have been scooped up by other countries and individuals in those countries because their money is worth more than ours and it's a bargain for them.

Right now we have Americand defaulting on their loans and losing their houses and at the same time you have Canadian investors scooping up the same houses and real estate as investments because with their dollar being worth more than ours now it's a no-brainer for them.
 
I was explaining to my father that we do not back up our money with gold anymore (I was very surprised he did not know this) and he asked me "what about all the gold in Fort Knox?"

I understand that it was shipped there after we left the gold standard but what purpose is it serving now?

Well, the US gave $10B worth to the IMF (along with other G5 countries) to start its gold reserve.

A bunch more has been lent to bullion banks, who then sell it in the open market. Even though it's been sold, it's carried on the books as though it was still in the vault.

The rest is considered a "strategic reserve" by most. In WW II, because of foreign currency problems, the US would only accept payment from other countries in gold. If the same thing happens again, the US-owned gold could be used to buy needed goods from other countries.


Our money isn't worthless paper. It is backed by something and it is probably something that most people have never stopped to think about.

Each and every Federal reserve note is backed by "the full faith and credit of the United States." Most strong money people seem only to look at the first part of that statement and equate the faith portion with worthless printed paper.

That's why you can take a paper dollar to the grocery and buy something with it. No one says that money is really "worthless paper".

The key thing to understand is that money today is "fiat money". In other words, the government can create as much of it as they want. The alternative is "hard money" -- like a gold-backed currency. Additional hard-money can only be created when more of the backing commodity is made available. The government could devalue (steal) half of the value of the dollars you own by simply doubling the amount of money in circulation -- with no consent from you, and with nothing to prevent them from doing otherwise. With gold-backed money, that would be impossible. The value of your money would remain constant.
 
This may be wildly off base, and perhaps off-topic in this thread, but it's something I've considered true for a long while.

Our money isn't worthless paper. It is backed by something and it is probably something that most people have never stopped to think about.

Each and every Federal reserve note is backed by "the full faith and credit of the United States." Most strong money people seem only to look at the first part of that statement and equate the faith portion with worthless printed paper.

I find the second part more interesting, the credit portion. I may be drawing a false conclusion here, but the government does have considerable assets with which to back the currency. They hold, as custodians of we the people, every acre of federal land, every un-leased or unsold mineral and timber right, all of the licensable electromagnetic spectrum, plus the precious metals reserves found in places like Ft. Knox and probably other assets I've overlooked. All told it likely adds up to trillions of dollars.

Now, what happens if the federal government does approach insolvency or the nation-state equivalent? Either they repudiate the outstanding debt obligations, enact enormous tax hikes and/or massive benefits cuts, OR pay the debts using some of the previously listed assets...

One problem (as I see things) is that there is no effort to tie a realistic valuation of our assets with the face value of the currency we DO print. There is nothing special about gold or the gold standard, EXCEPT that it limits the total dollar amount of currency in circulation, thus making each dollar "worth," a calculable quantity compared to a relatively fixed other substance. It would be as valid a system, in terms of fixing the dollar to a tangible asset, to have a "federal lands reserve note (land standard)."

Or maybe I am way off base...?

Actually they have already done this.

Alex Jones did a special a while back where he talked about how our National Parks no longer belong to the American people but to foreign countries.

I believe Texas is the only state that still have ownership of its national parks, but the others went up along time ago as collateral for our spending habits.
 
It is unknown whether or not there is any gold left in Force Knox. It may be there, and it may not.

Audits of the Federal Reserve have never been allowed.

To understand the "full faith in credit of the United States" you have to understand how the Federal Reserve issues t-bills and bonds, and how the fractional reserve system works. "Full faith in credit of the United States" has nothing to do with Federal assets; its the idea that the Federal Government is the creditor of last resort, and that its credit (e.g. its ability to pay back debt) is infallible.

To understand how inflation works you need to understand all of these issues. $1 of Federal debt becomes $5 or more in the economy due to the fractional reserve, and "full faith in credit."

Its a bit more complicated than people think it is, and I encourage you to read up on it. I'm still in the process of learning more myself.
 
Alex Jones did a special a while back where he talked about how our National Parks no longer belong to the American people but to foreign countries.
So that's why all those people at Yellowstone this summer couldn't speak English. :p
 
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So that's why all those people at Yellowstone this summer couldn't speak English. :p


Actually in all seriousness they have a LOT of VERY HOT Russian chicks working out at Yellowstone on some sort of exchange program. I almost want to move out there myself to meet a hot Russian chick :D

You're hopeless :)
 
It is my understanding, the gold in Fort Knox as well as in the UK has been slowly dumped into the market to suppress the price of gold and make the dollar look better. By all appearance, they are running out of gold to dump in and now the price has been going up.

The same thing happened when the government strategic stock pile of silver was liquidated. The price of silver was kept so low for so long, the mines were unable to grow and many had to close.
 
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