Brokered Convention

[tank]

Bradley... why do you keep saying it's crap? Are you a precinct captain? If so, which precinct and what's your district number? This would help clear up a lot since you claim to know so much. What experience do you have? Please let us know the facts rather than your opinion.

On the daily paul, there are MANY people who are delegates and precinct captains that said this is exactly how it works and agreed with the post -- but rules vary from state to state. The author even said that in his post.

I've read through the GOP rules myself and there are so many loop holes, that in all honesty, you'd have to be a lawyer to understand everything stated. So unless you're a lawyer, I think this strategy is actually right on the money since most others that are, in fact delegates, approved it on DP.

 

[Liberté]

We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.
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According to RonPaul2008.com we have 42 National Delegates, and by their own estimate we do not have the majority in any state... What are you talking about??

With the results of many of the “Super Tuesday” primaries and caucuses now finalized, the Ron Paul campaign is now projecting that it has at least 42 delegates to the national convention secured.

 

[Lou337]

According to RonPaul2008.com we have 42 National Delegates, and by their own estimate we do not have the majority in any state... What are you talking about??

He's talking about how a very good portion of McCain's delegates are RP supporters. They will be the majority when they vote, the majority for the states they represent. They will be representing Paul as well.

 

[Liberté]

He's talking about how a very good portion of McCain's delegates are RP supporters. They will be the majority when they vote, the majority for the states they represent. They will be representing Paul as well.

There is no state where we have the majority of delegates (pledged to another candidate or not.) As far as I can see the only chance we would have is in LA, if we won the lawsuit there AND the Pro-life party voted for Ron Paul too. <--- I wouldn't count on that.

From what it looks like to me McCain will probably have a couple hundred extra delegates more then the required 1191 at the Convention.. so it should all be done in vote 1.

I really don't get all the energy people are putting into a brokered convention idea, it wouldn't work. Instead I would like to see people focus more on grass roots candidates, and getting as many National Delegates for Ron Paul so he can walk into the Convention with a 100+ delegates.. that would make a strong statement.

 

[Zeeder]

According to RonPaul2008.com we have 42 National Delegates, and by their own estimate we do not have the majority in any state... What are you talking about??

Until the delegates are actually selected to got to the National Convention Nobody has a majority. What is is talking about is that if Ron Paul Supporters are a majority of those delegates(people).........that is all that is needed in 5 states to be nominated AND suspend rules, raise cain etc....

The way the rules read we don't have to even have a majority of Ron Paul supporters in five states. We could simply have a majority of delegates that hate mccain with enought passion to suspend rules and have a debate or nominate someone else ie: Fred Thompson Ghandi whoever.

 

[No1ButPaul08]

Bradley... why do you keep saying it's crap? Are you a precinct captain? If so, which precinct and what's your district number? This would help clear up a lot since you claim to know so much. What experience do you have? Please let us know the facts rather than your opinion.

On the daily paul, there are MANY people who are delegates and precinct captains that said this is exactly how it works and agreed with the post -- but rules vary from state to state. The author even said that in his post.

I've read through the GOP rules myself and there are so many loop holes, that in all honesty, you'd have to be a lawyer to understand everything stated. So unless you're a lawyer, I think this strategy is actually right on the money since most others that are, in fact delegates, approved it on DP.

Because it is crap. McCain is steamrolling to the nomination and yet people seem to think a brokered convention is going to be a lock. At best there's a 5% chance of a brokered convention. Bradley knows more about this process than 99.999% of this board. So do I. We are currently putting together the "facts" so people can see how dire the situation is, and what needs to be done

 

[Zeeder]

Because it is crap. McCain is steamrolling to the nomination and yet people seem to think a brokered convention is going to be a lock. At best there's a 5% chance of a brokered convention. Bradley knows more about this process than 99.999% of this board. So do I. We are currently putting together the "facts" so people can see how dire the situation is, and what needs to be done

5% is pretty good odds compared to the chances that Ron Paul would even make it this far.

And your wrong. If we have 5 states with majority Ron Paul Supporters as delegates(Not states he won. Not delegates he won). Then there is a 100% chance of brokered convention by Suspending the rules. See Rule 32.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/34775

Now the question is can we get our people as delegates in 5 states. Nevada , louisiana are both possibilities.

 

[Liberté]

Because it is crap. McCain is steamrolling to the nomination and yet people seem to think a brokered convention is going to be a lock. At best there's a 5% chance of a brokered convention. Bradley knows more about this process than 99.999% of this board. So do I. We are currently putting together the "facts" so people can see how dire the situation is, and what needs to be done

You are right there No1, there is about a 99%+ that McCain will wrap up the nomination in Vote 1. When Romney dropped out he basically endorsed McCain. Romney and Fred are meeting with McCain this week to discuss conservative voter issues and how best to unite the party for McCAIN. Huckabee is practically drooling over a Veep possiblity.

The party is closing ranks around McCain, by the time convention comes around he will sweep it... Republicans are nothing if not good at closing rank. The fact that McCain wasn't egged at the C-Pac should demonstrated that.

I know of not a single state where we can get a majority of delegates, even those pledged to another candidate. Don't look backwards for this, if we are going to get 5 states it will be in the coming months. But don't fool yourself, even in a brokered convention (which is almost impossible) Ron Paul winning a brokered convention is ALMOST Impossible.. we are talking about a 1/10000 shot.

 

[tank]

Because it is crap. McCain is steamrolling to the nomination and yet people seem to think a brokered convention is going to be a lock. At best there's a 5% chance of a brokered convention. Bradley knows more about this process than 99.999% of this board. So do I. We are currently putting together the "facts" so people can see how dire the situation is, and what needs to be done

Let me ask you this -- Romney dropped out, right? Yet he won all those supposed delegates from the states, around 200+ delegates. But WHERE does it say in the rules that those states are still bound to any candidate if they drop out of the race, even if transferred? If Romney transfers the delegates to McCain, where does it say in the rules that the delegates can be transferable and they are still BOUND to that transfer during the first ballot process?

I sent an email off to Real Clear Politics to have them investigate this as well, and they wrote me back saying "Interesting point, we'll look into it." They said they would get back to me.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Bradley... why do you keep saying it's crap? Are you a precinct captain? If so, which precinct and what's your district number? This would help clear up a lot since you claim to know so much. What experience do you have? Please let us know the facts rather than your opinion.

On the daily paul, there are MANY people who are delegates and precinct captains that said this is exactly how it works and agreed with the post -- but rules vary from state to state. The author even said that in his post.

I've read through the GOP rules myself and there are so many loop holes, that in all honesty, you'd have to be a lawyer to understand everything stated. So unless you're a lawyer, I think this strategy is actually right on the money since most others that are, in fact delegates, approved it on DP.

Let me repost again, my comments that no one refutes:
there is just so much totally bad information here.

First stop looking at who wins each states popular vote for most of these states the vote by the people is really nothing but a straw poll and have no real bearing on who will become the nominee. The only way this matters is if 1 person receives 1192 delegates that are bound by state rules to be commited to that candidate. NOW there is no possible way that anyone in the race can achieve this goal now because of the major split in state wins by the candidates.

This is a load of crap on so many levels: votes do have bearing on choosing delegates that choose the nominee; one can get 1192 votes from unbound and bound delegates; there are enough votes outstanding for McCain to win outright.

Now i assure you that even though we didn’t win the popular vote in many states WE DID PICK UP THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES THAN ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN MOST EVERY STATE EXCEPT A FEW. So yes they won the straw poll and we won what counts which is delegates.

This is just delusional ranting: someone call for a straight-jacket. The delusions are based on an understanding of the process from Anson's site that is, to be charitable, well-meaning but laughable:

Do any of you remember seeing posts by myself and many others that said BECOME A DELEGATE? There is still time in most states to become a delegate for the convention and we are picking up more of them every day.

Let me add that McCain won California and other primary states where the candidate himself picks his slate of "delegate candidates" who support him. The voters then chose them as delegates to the convention. NONE of them are "stealth" Paul supporters, much less a majority of them. It is a load of crap from a delusional post.

 

[Bradley in DC]

5% is pretty good odds compared to the chances that Ron Paul would even make it this far.

And your wrong. If we have 5 states with majority Ron Paul Supporters as delegates(Not states he won. Not delegates he won). Then there is a 100% chance of brokered convention by Suspending the rules. See Rule 32.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/34775

Now the question is can we get our people as delegates in 5 states. Nevada , louisiana are both possibilities.

It's good you're looking at the RNC by-laws. I've been posting them here many, many times. What you show is that if we get a majority of delegates in five states, we are eligible to be nominated. That's all. It does NOT show a 100% chance of brokered convention. To suspend the rules we'd need another state too. But ask yourself, why would McCain delegates want to change the rules against themselves?

 

[No1ButPaul08]

5% is pretty good odds compared to the chances that Ron Paul would even make it this far.

And your wrong. If we have 5 states with majority Ron Paul Supporters as delegates(Not states he won. Not delegates he won). Then there is a 100% chance of brokered convention by Suspending the rules. See Rule 32.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/34775

Now the question is can we get our people as delegates in 5 states. Nevada , louisiana are both possibilities.

It takes a majority or delegates to MOTION to suspend the rules. It would still need a majority vote.

That would be like saying it takes a majority of 5 states to win the nomination. It's just like getting on the convention ballot. It takes a majority of 5 states to MOTION RP getting on the convention ballot.

Is this right Bradley?

 

[Bradley in DC]

uh read the post, the answer is NO!

Doesn't Dr. Paul need to WIN 5 states to be on the ballot at the convention for the nomination?

NO THIS IS NOT TRUE for people were just confused on how it actually works.

We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.

Fedup,

We're all disappointed with the official campaign staff. Repeatedly citing the delusional rantings of a madman does not win us the nomination.

We're all frustrated and emotions are high because we all here care so much for the future of our country. What is important is for us to remain focused on winning as many national convention delegates as possible. This is half time.

The blog post you keep citing is wrong. Plain and simple. I have shown here repeatedly: McCain can get the nomination from votes from bound and unbound delegates no matter what the lunatic says. He tries to parse the five state rule in ways that are absolutely contrary to their meaning.

We have not (yet?!) won a majority of delegates in any state yet. Period.

Rather than fighting among ourselves (and I'm sorry you took personally comments directed to the substance of a blog post NOT to you), we need to work together to win as many delegates as possible in the second half of the contests.

The five state rule says, as you correctly point out here, that we need a majority of delegates from five states in order to be nominated. The blog post you cite twists and turns clear rules into what he wishes, not to what reality is.

The reality is that all of us here on this forum are on the same side and need to work together. I've explained why that site is wrong and no one has refuted my analysis. I've been posting the RNC by-laws on this forum for many, many months. I and a few others have been poring over them to make sure we are as successful as possible.

 

[NoMoreApathy]

they don't committ until they are at the convention

So basically at the convention our goal as delegates for Ron Paul is to convince enough of the other delegates that the ONLY WAY THE GOP can get in the White House is with Ron Paul


Ron will get to speak at the convention.


We will use polls that show Ron Paul doing tremendously well against democrat candidates(especially Hitlery) And then we bring out the statistics


70% of Americans want out of Iraq
Gop has dropped in members by like 20%
exit polls show ROn Paul with a good amount of Independant and Democrat support


At the COnvention all people will be thinking is how to get the GOP in the WHitehouse

Most of them are party pullers and will do WHATEVER IS BEST FOR THE PARTY

So we must sell them on ROn Paul as being That.

And if we do that then EVERYTHING CHANGES


MEDIA MUST ACKNOWLEDGE US AND THEN WE GET FUNDS FROM THE NAT'L GOP

AND THEN WE WIN

In better times in this country, that may have been the case. Not anymore though.

The establishment is not just the GOP establishment, or the Democratic establishment. Parties, sides of the aisle, those are paradigms. Both parties have been hijacked, and there are goals bigger than perceived party goals.

We all know that war and death will continue under a Hillary presidency, and probably an Obama presidency, considering how much he panders to AIPAC.

More war and global hegemony has pretty much been the stated status-quo. A Ron Paul presidency threatens EVERY BIT of that status-quo.

A Ron Paul presidency will never happen under the conditions you listed.

Either America wakes up and a healthy majority demands Ron Paul, or the status-quo continues. It's the only way.

 

[fedup100]

Thank you for this post. i agree we are or should be working towards the same goal.

Now, with that said, you clearly point out that he cannot win a brokered convention and that McCain has it wrapped up, then you go on to say we need to get as many delegates as possible going forward?

I'm sorry, I do not understand why we need the delegates if it is pointless.

 

[tank]

It's good you're looking at the RNC by-laws. I've been posting them here many, many times. What you show is that if we get a majority of delegates in five states, we are eligible to be nominated. That's all. It does NOT show a 100% chance of brokered convention. To suspend the rules we'd need another state too. But ask yourself, why would McCain delegates want to change the rules against themselves?

There is no guarantee of brokered convention -- and for anyone to think 100% chance would be foolish. To suspend the rules, you might have Michigan too -- because right now there are some delegates asking for help because they are all unbound and vote shortly. There are some people in the Daily Paul asking for help on this matter now. A Michigan delegate said this on a blog post:

"All of Michigan's delegates were declared uncommitted when Romney dropped out. Next week we go to Lansing to vote for National delegates. Michigan may still send national delegates for Ron Paul. Send out the signs, get out in your district and let people know Dr. Paul has strong support. I will need point to you to get other delegates enthused. They are looking for anything but McCain."

So all hope is not lost. It will be very difficult to get a brokered convention though, this I agree with, however it's not at all impossible. To think so would be the opinion of a pessimist -- which means he probably picked the Patriots over the Giants too.

 

[tank]

The reality is that all of us here on this forum are on the same side and need to work together. I've explained why that site is wrong and no one has refuted my analysis. I've been posting the RNC by-laws on this forum for many, many months. I and a few others have been poring over them to make sure we are as successful as possible.

Let me ask you this Brad -- Romney dropped out, right? Yet he won all those supposed delegates from the states, around 200+ delegates. But WHERE does it say in the rules that those states are still bound to any candidate if they drop out of the race, even if transferred? If Romney transfers the delegates to McCain, where does it say in the rules that the delegates can be transferable and they are still BOUND to vote for the endorsed candidate during the first ballot process?

My point is, if they are NOT BOUND during the first ballot, then this means that ALL of Romney's delegates can vote for anyone they choose. And if they can, then the odds just went up -- maybe not that great, but up nonetheless.

 

[fabijo]

I never saw any posts that said we are guaranteed a brokered convention. The whole reason that people want Ron Paul delegates is IN CASE there is a brokered convention. Sure, some states have the delegates chosen by the candidate that gets them. Other states just let any Republicans become delegates. They're bound by what the caucuses and primaries decided (at least for the first round, and sometimes the second and third round), but if it becomes a brokered convention, we want those people on our side before they even show up to the convention. That is why it is not useless to fight for delegates in those states that McCain has won or for states that Romney or Huckabee has won.

Yes, our goal is to win as many states as possible. But we definitely want people to become delegates in the states that are still open for delegates - even if they have already had their primary or caucus. We don't want to be left hanging in September if there is a brokered convention and we gave up on delegates we could have squeezed in.

 

[therealjjj77]

dont you need to win 5 states to be able to participate in the convention?

That rule is listed under "Temporary Rules" for a reason. When it goes brokered, nearly anything goes. Anyone could end up being the nominee.

 

[tank]

They're bound by what the caucuses and primaries decided (at least for the first round, and sometimes the second and third round), but if it becomes a brokered convention, we want those people on our side before they even show up to the convention. That is why it is not useless to fight for delegates in those states that McCain has won or for states that Romney or Huckabee has won.

For all disbelievers, this post pretty much explains the strategy giving us a chance to make a difference.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=116036

It makes perfect sense to me that they are NOT BOUND in the first ballot now because the Candidate who won the state dropped out. And now we have a chance towards doing something about it. Imagine if all the states did this as well. We could get the majority of delegates within all the states Romney won by voting for our own supporters to be state delegates.

Of course this is only for Michigan thus far, but it would make sense to me if all the other states did the same thing.

The question is, what are we going to do about it? Come on Michigan residents, get out there now and become state delegates!!!