Brokered convention misunderstandings

[cjhowe]

This rule, on it's face, doesn't appear to have anything to do with being "pledged" delegates or bound by any state rule. By the reading of the rule, it would appear the process is "Hey Florida, who would you like to nominate for president"...Floridians get together and if a majority wish to nominate someone they say who they nominate. If a majority cannot be reached, they don't nominate anyone. This appears to be the people in the room type thing, not a who they have to vote for for.

Continuing the example, it would appear that Floridians could say: "We nominate Huckabee for president" and then when it comes time to vote, if McCain is a nominee, they are bound to vote for McCain, even though they were able to nominate Huckabee.

 

[MrZach]

No, but you are right - they ARE paper delegates. Also known as "virtual" delegates. =o)

During the first round of voting the actual person doesn't matter... it is after they become "released" in subsequent rounds that they matter...

 

[JulioForPaul]

So at some point in a brokered convention there is no such thing as a "committed" delegate? They are ALL released?

 

[mketcher]

There are repeated posts about Dr. Paul becoming the Republican presidential nominee in a brokered convention. Most of them are promoting bad information. Here are the actual rules:

Rules "binding" delegates are determined by the states: some delegates are not bound at all, others for the first few votes (first, second or third), while other states bind their delegates until they are released.

In order to be eligible to be nominated at all [RNC Rule 40(b)], one requirement is to win the majority of delegates in five states (including DC and territories, RNC Rule 27).

The national campaign -- and Dr. Paul himself -- believes that a brokered convention is Dr. Paul's best chance, by far. All of the rules cited above could even be thrown out the window. None of these rules has the force of law, and motions could be made -- and passed -- to change them. For example, a motion could be made -- and passed -- that all delegates be released from their obligations -- and allowed to vote for whomever they please. If that happens, then if Ron Paul has a lot of delegates at the convention supporting him, he could come out in very good shape -- and start gaining some momentum.

The third party option would probably be viable if it becomes clear that McCain will will the nomination on a first ballot. Dr. knows about third parties -- had he been running as a third party candidate all this time, the MSM would have totally shut him out, he would have raised almost no money, and he wouldn't have this huge grassroots movement.

The truth is that nobody knows what will happen in a brokered convention, because it so rarely happens. All that we do know is that it will likely be utter chaos (as was the Democratic convention in 1968), when Hubert Humphrey, who didn't even run in the primaries, was nominated. Eugene McCarthy, who was the anti-war candidate for the Democrats (their Ron Paul) lost. Even though he lost the nomination, it drastically changed the Democratic Party's nominating process. There is a chance that Dr. Paul will be able to take advantage of the chaos of a brokered convention. The Republican establishment definitely doesn't want a brokered convention, because they, too, don't know what would happen -- and they could lose control of it.

 

[Dary]

Is it possible for a candidate to drop out and pledge his delegates to another candidate before the convention?

 

[Bradley in DC]

Is it possible for a candidate to drop out and pledge his delegates to another candidate before the convention?

It's possible to drop out and "release" their delegates and urge them to support another candidate.

 

[Bradley in DC]

No, but you are right - they ARE paper delegates. Also known as "virtual" delegates. =o)

During the first round of voting the actual person doesn't matter... it is after they become "released" in subsequent rounds that they matter...

What the hell are you talking about? What do you think paper delegates and "virtual" delegates are? Stop the delusions, learn the rules and play the game. There are no "virtual" delegates.

 

[Bradley in DC]

All of the rules cited above could even be thrown out the window. None of these rules has the force of law, and motions could be made -- and passed -- to change them.

If you read the actual rules that will govern the convention (force of law or not), it is easier to get nominated than change the rules.

Just learn the rules, play the game, stop the delusions.

 

[Bradley in DC]

This rule, on it's face, doesn't appear to have anything to do with being "pledged" delegates or bound by any state rule.

Continuing the example, it would appear that Floridians could say: "We nominate Huckabee for president" and then when it comes time to vote, if McCain is a nominee, they are bound to vote for McCain, even though they were able to nominate Huckabee.

RNC rules and state election law are separate, yes. Violating state election law binding most delegates (at least for some, if not all votes) may bring consequences (jail and/or fines). Realistically, though, why would McCain choose delegates that support Huckabee? Why would Dr. Paul choose delegate candidates to stand for him that don't support him? If the "secret strategy" is to have delegates that vied to support another candidate then jump to Dr. Paul, then we need a better strategy--like winning more of our own delegates.

 

[Basilieus]

If you nominate any other candidate you will lose because I will run as a third party candidate and will split the republican base.

My loyalty is to the principles of the Republican Party. If the party abandons its principles I will abandon the party and so will most other true conservatives.

ROFL a threat about the republicans countered with loyalty for republicans. haha.

 

[No1ButPaul08]

RNC rules and state election law are separate, yes. Violating state election law binding most delegates (at least for some, if not all votes) may bring consequences (jail and/or fines). Realistically, though, why would McCain choose delegates that support Huckabee? Why would Dr. Paul choose delegate candidates to stand for him that don't support him? If the "secret strategy" is to have delegates that vied to support another candidate then jump to Dr. Paul, then we need a better strategy--like winning more of our own delegates.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the candidate appoints the delegates in most states. I believe most people run for delegate and then are "pledged" to the winner. However, if the convention is brokered, they can nominate (and support) whatever candidate they choose. I think I read someone on this site became a delegate in his state, and is currently "pledged" to another candidate, but if the convention were brokered he could nominate and support RP. Is this wrong?

 

[cjhowe]

RNC rules and state election law are separate, yes. Violating state election law binding most delegates (at least for some, if not all votes) may bring consequences (jail and/or fines). Realistically, though, why would McCain choose delegates that support Huckabee? Why would Dr. Paul choose delegate candidates to stand for him that don't support him? If the "secret strategy" is to have delegates that vied to support another candidate then jump to Dr. Paul, then we need a better strategy--like winning more of our own delegates.

I wasn't referring to state election law. But this isn't the electoral college, the candidate does not choose the slate of delegates. I certainly haven't read the rules for every state, but the state delegation generally chooses the actual membership of the delegation, both the congressional delegates and the at large, though you may caucus differently at the state convention. In addition, there are scenarios where a non leading candidate may want additional names to be nominated in order to prevent the leading candidate from taking a majority.

 

[No1ButPaul08]

I wasn't referring to state election law. But this isn't the electoral college, the candidate does not choose the slate of delegates. I certainly haven't read the rules for every state, but the state delegation generally chooses the actual membership of the delegation, both the congressional delegates and the at large, though you may caucus differently at the state convention. In addition, there are scenarios where a non leading candidate may want additional names to be nominated in order to prevent the leading candidate from taking a majority.

This is what I was thinking. If this is true, I'm going to go through state by state and come up with a plan that could broker the convention. If this is the case, we could make RP a player at the convention. Not necessarily win, but a player

 

[polomertz]

IF somebody needs to "win" 5 states, then how could some random other person jump in and win at the convention, as some have suggested could happen?
I DO look forward to the massive rally that would surely take place outside.

 

[No1ButPaul08]

IF somebody needs to "win" 5 states, then how could some random other person jump in and win at the convention, as some have suggested could happen?
I DO look forward to the massive rally that would surely take place outside.

For one, the rules can change, which is very hard.

Also, delegates can change their mind or be originally pledged to another candidate and become unpledged as the process goes along, and nominate another candidate. I'm still trying to get clarification at this point

 

[Bradley in DC]

I may be wrong, but I don't think the candidate appoints the delegates in most states. I believe most people run for delegate and then are "pledged" to the winner. Is this wrong?

Yes, it is wrong, at least in primary states.

No, the candidate does not appoint the "delegates" in any states. In many (most?) states, he does appoint his slate of "delegate candidates" to represent him at the convention if he wins the primary (not sure about caucus states). These slates are then filed with the state secretary of state. In some states, the "delegate candidate" names even appear on the ballot.

For example in DC, I helped recruit Ron Paul supporters to be on his slate of "delegate candidates" to compete with the slate of delegate candidates from Rudy, McCain, Huck and Romney. Whoever wins the DC primary sends their slate of now "delegates" to the convention. This is typical for primary states. This is why the "Trojan" approach is a load of crap.

Again, rules vary by state.

 

[No1ButPaul08]

Yes, it is wrong, at least in primary states.

No, the candidate does not appoint the "delegates" in any states. In many (most?) states, he does appoint his slate of "delegate candidates" to represent him at the convention if he wins the primary (not sure about caucus states). These slates are then filed with the state secretary of state. In some states, the "delegate candidate" names even appear on the ballot.

For example in DC, I helped recruit Ron Paul supporters to be on his slate of "delegate candidates" to compete with the slate of delegate candidates from Rudy, McCain, Huck and Romney. Whoever wins the DC primary sends their slate of now "delegates" to the convention. This is typical for primary states. This is why the "Trojan" approach is a load of crap.

Again, rules vary by state.

Thanks...cjhowe your thoughts as this is pretty much direct conflict of what you said on the slate of delegates point. I'm going to go through the remaining states and see how it's done

 

[Bradley in DC]

I wasn't referring to state election law. But this isn't the electoral college, the candidate does not choose the slate of delegates.

No, in most states, the candidate DOES choose his slate of "delegate candidates" that compete with the slate of delegate candidates for the other presidential contenders. The one who wins the primary sends his slate of (now) "delegates" to the national nominating convention.

 

[Bradley in DC]

So at some point in a brokered convention there is no such thing as a "committed" delegate? They are ALL released?

As I explain in the OP, in some states, no delegates are bound. In most states, the delegates are bound for the first few specified votes (first, second or third). In some states, the delegates are bound until released. Check the state by state rules in the links if interested.

 

[Bradley in DC]

IF somebody needs to "win" 5 states, then how could some random other person jump in and win at the convention, as some have suggested could happen?

By "win" I was being too casual: a prospective nominee must demonstrate support from a majority of delegates from five states. McCain, Romney and Huckabee can now "demonstrate" the required support by winning five states already. If we get to a brokered convention with more delegates getting released, we'll see what happens.