Brazil Declares 'State of Emergency' for Uncontrollable Immigration Influx

[Brian4Liberty]

I would support open borders between the two countries.

Oh really? Did you change your mind? It seems that in the past you have said that you don't agree with the Palestinian right of return, and that Palestine should not be united with Israel. How would open borders and open immigration be any different from that?

I think we both know if borders where opened up again it would be Palestinians moving into Israel and not the other way around, which is surprising considering most peoples accusations of Israels evilness would lead one to believe Israel would be the last place Palestinians would be headed in an open borders scenario.

There would probably be people moving both directions if there was truly freedom and peace.

 

[gwax23]

Open Borders does not mean both states would merge into one. I think you need to read up on definitions of Open borders and look at places like Europe for instance.

I still hold that neither country or soon to be country should be merged. Ive always stressed that a Yugoslvia type one state solution would only lead to more violence and bloodshed. The only one state solution I would accept is all of the Palestinian territories being incorporated into Israel similar to East jerusalem and the Golan heights. This solution or the basic two states two peoples solution which I also I support. There is also the 3 state solution with Israel Jordan and Egypt extending sovereignty to parts of the territories. None of these contradicts with a policy of open borders.

Please provide evidence where I stated differently In the past....

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Open Borders does not mean both states would merge into one. I think you need to read up on definitions of Open borders and look at places like Europe for instance.

I still hold that neither country or soon to be country should be merged. Ive always stressed that a Yugoslvia type one state solution would only lead to more violence and bloodshed. The only one state solution I would accept is all of the Palestinian territories being incorporated into Israel similar to East jerusalem and the Golan heights. This solution or the basic two states two peoples solution which I also I support. There is also the 3 state solution with Israel Jordan and Egypt extending sovereignty to parts of the territories. None of these contradicts with a policy of open borders.

Please provide evidence where I stated differently In the past....

How is incorporating Gaza and the West Bank into Israel different from "merging" them?

 

[jmdrake]

Can we get back to talking about Brazil? You know, jui-jitsu, capoeira, and sexy women? Hey, I just noticed that jui-jitsu has the word "jew" in it!

 

[BAllen]

Can we get back to talking about Brazil? You know, jui-jitsu, capoeira, and sexy women? Hey, I just noticed that jui-jitsu has the word "jew" in it!

ANTI-SEMITE!!!

 

[robert68]

Since no one is posting any more Brazilian butt pics, I’ll address some of the hasbara that’s been posted.

The over 500,000 Jews from "Arab" countries who “emigrated” to “Israel”, did so over many decades at the wishes and significant provocation (falsflag ops etc..) of “Israel”, after 1947, when most of the Palestinians (750,000) had already been driven out of Palestine.

Naeim Giladi, a Jewish Iraqi, has written extensively about this. Here's just a few passages from an article he wrote:

THE JEWS OF IRAQ
by Naeim Giladi

I write this article for the same reason I wrote my book:
to tell the American people, and especially American Jews, that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews; and that, to buy time to confiscate ever more Arab lands, Jews on numerous occasions rejected genuine peace initiatives from their Arab neighbors. I write about what the first prime minister of Israel called "cruel Zionism." I write about it because I was part of it.

In our previous Link, Israeli historian Ilan Pappe looked at the hundreds of thousands of indigenous Palestinians whose lives were uprooted to make room for foreigners who would come to populate confiscated land. Most were Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe. But over half a million other Jews came from Islamic lands. Zionist propagandists claim that Israel "rescued" these Jews from their anti-Jewish, Muslim neighbors. One of those "rescued" Jews-Naeim Giladi-knows otherwise.

...

About 125,000 Jews left Iraq for Israel in the late 1940s and into 1952, most because they had been lied to and put into a panic by what I came to learn were Zionist bombs...

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

 

[gwax23]

I love how you blatantly deflate the numbers. 800,000 - 1,000,000 left Arab/Muslim lands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

Maybe you can read up on these refugees who have no agency in the UN specially dedicated to them, who dont receive ny support funding or compensation for there losses and are never talked about anywhere.

The majority fled from the string of pogroms, riots, attacks and general antisemitism of that time. Many where outright deported from the country and all property seized.

So whatever you found on the internet about some flook arguing otherwise it doesnt support any of your bullshit points.

My Grandfather fled Iraq to Mandatory Palestine after losing most of his family int he Farhud program that happened...wait for....in 1941.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud

 

[robert68]

From your link:

600,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries had reached Israel by 1972.

“586,269” is the number used in one of the supporting sources. at your link. The “over 500,000” I used is quite accurate.

Also from your link:

it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. From the onset of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War until the early 1970s...

That’s essentially the same as my “over many decades… after 1947”.

Regarding the killings of 1941, Iraq was under British military occupation in those days. They made the unpopular Nuri as-Said prime minister, so the blame lies with them and him; and if you were a non-interventionist, you would be blaming them.

Also, from the article I linked to:

Britain's pro-Zionist attitude in Palestine, however, triggered a growing anti-Zionist backlash in Iraq, as it did in all Arab countries. Writing at the end of 1934, Sir Francis Humphreys, Britain's Ambassador in Baghdad, noted that, while before WW I Iraqi Jews had enjoyed a more favorable position than any other minority in the country, since then "Zionism has sown dissension between Jews and Arabs, and a bitterness has grown up between the two peoples which did not previously exist.[3]

From Jewishvirtuallibrary:

In 1945, roughly 1 million Jews lived peacefully in the various Arab states of the Middle East, many of them in communities that had existed for thousands of years.

It was western state intervention and the Zionism it backed, that broke the relationship between Jews and other Arabs in Arab/Muslim countries.

 

[gwax23]

From your link:

“586,269” is the number used in one of the supporting sources. at your link. The “over 500,000” I used is quite accurate.

Also from your link:

That’s essentially the same as my “over many decades… after 1947”.

Regarding the killings of 1941, Iraq was under British military occupation in those days. They made the unpopular Nuri as-Said prime minister, so the blame lies with them and him; and if you were a non-interventionist, you would be blaming them.

Also, from the article I linked to:


From Jewishvirtuallibrary:



It was western state intervention and the Zionism it backed, that broke the relationship between Jews and other Arabs in Arab/Muslim countries.

Your ignoring jews who didnt go to Israel. What they dont count as refugees? Only counting jews who where forced out prior to 1972 AND who went to israel is purposefully deflating and misrepresenting the true statistics. Hence the 800k-1M figure being a more accurate representation of the true situation.

Blaming the British for a mob killing and murdering jews is ridiculous and calling Britain pro zionist is also a misrepresentation. British views and positions changed frequently but where in no way shape or form pro zionist, not since Balfour. They blocked immigration and waged a war against Zionist groups in mandatory palestine. They didnt want a Jewish satte there because it would hurt there economic and political interests in the Arab world.

It was a purely antisemitic pogrom. No excuses.

And while jews in the Arab worlds had better conditions than Jews in Europe, thats not saying much. Thats a pretty low bar to compare to. They where still 2nd Class citizens and subjugated to various forms of Discrimination taxes and persecution which only increased rapidly after 1948 despite the fact that many of them where not zionists.

 

[SashaA]

gwax23,

I appreciate your posts and I do agree that no Arab whether they are Muslim or Christian deserves to live in the Land of Israel. Unfortunately, I came across an article by Murray Rothbard, and he has the most atrocious lies about the Israel-Arab conflict in which Jews are obviously the most victimized.

The article is War Guilt in the Middle East.


Rothbard claims that

"While the British were still in Palestine, the Zionist paramilitary forces began to crush the Palestinian Arab armed forces in a series of civil war clashes. But, more fatefully, on April 9, 1948, the fanatical Zionist-Revisionist terrorists grouped in the organization Irgun Zvai Leumi massacred a hundred women and children in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. By the advent of Israel’s independence on May 15 the Palestinian Arabs, demoralized, were fleeing in panic from their homes and from the threat of massacre. The neighboring Arab states then sent in their troops. Historians are wont to describe the ensuing war as an invasion of Israel by the Arab states, heroically rebuffed by Israel, but since all of the fighting took place on Arab territory, this interpretation is clearly incorrect. What happened, in fact, is that Israel managed to seize large chunks of territory assigned to the Palestinian Arabs by the partition agreement, including the Arab areas of Western Galilee, Arab west-central Palestine as "corridor" to Jerusalem, and the Arab cities of Jaffa and Beersheba. The bulk of Jerusalem – the New City – was also seized by Israel and the UN internationalization plan discarded. The Arab armies were hampered by their own inefficiency and disunity and by a series of UN-imposed truces broken only long enough for Israel to occupy more Arab territory."

Rothbard again lies and says:

"The UN agreement had provided (a) that Jerusalem be internationalized under UN rule, and (b) that there be an economic union between the new Jewish and Arab Palestine states. These were the basic conditions under which the UN approved partition. Both were promptly and brusquely disregarded by Israel – thus launching an escalating series of aggressions against the Arabs of the Middle East.

Can you please refute these lies by the self-hating Jew, Rothbard? I would really appreciate it.

 

[gwax23]

gwax23,

I appreciate your posts and I do agree that no Arab whether they are Muslim or Christian deserves to live in the Land of Israel. Unfortunately, I came across an article by Murray Rothbard, and he has the most atrocious lies about the Israel-Arab conflict in which Jews are obviously the most victimized.

The article is War Guilt in the Middle East.




Rothbard claims that
Rothbard again lies and says:[/FONT][/COLOR]

Can you please refute these lies by the self-hating Jew, Rothbard? I would really appreciate it.

I like Rothbard on a lot of things but here as you mentioned I believe he was wrong.

There was a three way civil war going on between the jews Arabs and British in the area. Bad things happened on all sides, that is the face of war. Blaming solely the jews for any negative outcomes shows his bias.

The Deir Yassin incident which he mentions was tragic and the Israeli Government/Jewish agency apologized for it despite this apology being disregarded by the Jordanians. Rothbard claiming this single incident discredits Jewish self determination is ridiculous since far worse incidents were perpetrated by the Arab side which he fails to mention. Such as the Hebron massacres, the Hadassah medical convoy massacre, the Kfar Etzion massacre (more jews died in this than in Deir Yassin), Safed Porgrom, the Tiberias Massacre are among a few.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadassah_medical_convoy_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Safed_pogrom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Tiberias_massacre

Many of these happened before the civil war and attacked some of the oldest jewish communities in the world many of which where not even Zionist. Yet Rothbard doesnt mention any of this. Further unlike Deir Yassin no arab institution or organization or government apologized for them, quite the opposite the openly and actively encouraged further violence against the Jews in their home countries and beyond.

Further this doesnt include any Massacres committed against jews Outside of Palestine in the neighboring Arab countries which triggered the mass flight of jewish refugees that I mentioned earlier. Refugees who alone outnumbered the Palestinian refugees yet rarely receive mention and have no official support from the UN unlike the Palestinians who have an agency directed specifically to helping them.


He downplays the invasion of Jewish populated territory, territory that was going to be awarded to the new found state as per the UN partition plan. The Arabs invaded this territory and LOST. The land the nascent state of Israel won defending itself it won justly. The fact that different standards are applied to Israel in this case show the hypocrisy.

He also claims that the UN brokered truces hurt the Arabs when in fact it prevented them from being further overrun by the Jewish forces.The Israelis had the initiative and could of pushed onto Jerusalem and the west bank and beyond had it not been for the Truces. So him saying the brokered cease fires only hurt the arabs is another fallacy.

Lastly he trys to claim that israel broke the UN provisions since it did not adhere to the economic portions of it and the internationalization of Jerusalem but this is the biggest lie of all.

First the jews ACCEPTED the UN partition plan in its entirety. The arabs rejected it and launched their invasion. Claiming israel should be bound to have an economic union with countries that didnt recognize it and wanted to destroy it after the war is absurd. He also fails to mention that the Arabs ignored ALL provisions of the partition and continued to Occupy land that was supposed to go for a Palestinian state including occupying the vast majority of Jerusalem. So another lie on his part. Egypt and Jordan occupied supposed Palestinian land for 2 decades and the world said nothing. Neither sought the establishment of a Palestinian state during that time.

He was very biased on this issue and not a credible source regarding the conflict in anyway.