Blimp discussion

[francisco]

Well, maybe they will come on after Christmas and answer these questions. Wait and see.

Perfect time for a "Come to Jesus" meeting with Blimp supporters and former supporters.

The active suppression of information by the Blimp organizers is completely at odds with the ideals of the freedom message, and plain bad business to boot. They are running out of time to turn this situation around. I have been biting on my tongue up to now, but its starting to bleed pretty badly.

 

[pacelli]

Information control is thankfully in full effect regarding the blimp, so, I guess we'll just have to keep our eyes peeled on the main site and wait for updates. Looking forward to seeing this sucker fly again!

 

[NerveShocker]

Does anyone have a link or source of where you found out about the legal issues involving the blimp? I have not heard anything about this. I would think if there were truly legal issues the MSM (Old Media) would have been all over it like the Brothel owner and the white supremacist story..

 

[pacelli]

Does anyone have a link or source of where you found out about the legal issues involving the blimp? I have not heard anything about this. I would think if there were truly legal issues the MSM (Old Media) would have been all over it like the Brothel owner and the white supremacist story..

I don't think anything really substantial exists. Heck Wonkette would have been all over it LOL

 

[NerveShocker]

That was one of the main points on this thread.. you can't just make a thread saying something without any proof...
The first post says that "We have learned that the blimp is setting a law suit with somebody over something" ... When you say we I don't know what you mean, and if what you say is true where did you get this information from?

 

[szczebrzeszyn]

Does anyone have a link or source of where you found out about the legal issues involving the blimp? I have not heard anything about this. I would think if there were truly legal issues the MSM (Old Media) would have been all over it like the Brothel owner and the white supremacist story..

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=657902&highlight=settlement#post657902

 

[pacelli]

Err is that a joke? That was one of the main points on this thread.. you can't just make a thread saying something without any proof...
The first post says that "We have learned that the blimp is setting a law suit with somebody over something" ... When you say we I don't know what you mean, and if what you say is true where did you get this information from?

From that thread:

With legal matters it is often the case that full disclosure is not possible before a settlement has been reached. That is our current situation.

I'm guessing that any information posted on this public site has been removed to prevent compromising the referenced settlement. Sounds like a good plan to me, there's no reason to jeapordize the blimp or its founders.

 

[NerveShocker]

Thx for the link. I would guess Pacelli, that what you said above could be what is happening. It's funny someone in the other post kept demanding information on the settlement, as if that's not illegal.

 

[LibertyEagle]

It's funny someone in the other post kept demanding information on the settlement, as if that's not illegal.

Why funny? The money for the "settlement" has to come from somewhere. The only revenue they have is from donations. Don't you think that the donors have a right to know if the money they are donating for advertising time is actually spent on the "settlement"?

 

[Man from La Mancha]

Why funny? The money for the "settlement" has to come from somewhere. The only revenue they have is from donations. Don't you think that the donors have a right to know if the money they are donating for advertising time is actually spent on the "settlement"?

Rumor mill nothing

.

 

[svillee]

Does anyone have a link or source of where you found out about the legal issues involving the blimp? I have not heard anything about this. I would think if there were truly legal issues the MSM (Old Media) would have been all over it like the Brothel owner and the white supremacist story..

Below are links to what little information we have about the blimp team's legal issues. All of these are posts by Katharine Memole (Mckarnin).

12-18-2007, 03:39 PM More information on our need for legal assistance will be forthcoming in the next few days.

12-18-2007, 04:44 PM We have reached out and asked for help with our problems from the demographic that we need help from right now, lawyers.

12-18-2007, 06:12 PM With legal matters it is often the case that full disclosure is not possible before a settlement has been reached. That is our current situation.

12-18-2007, 08:26 PM While I can't go into details, suffice it to say that the need for a lawyer is closely tied to something that has been a huge time and energy drain on the project for the last 2 weeks.

12-19-2007, 09:11 PM I cannot answer some of the questions you are all asking for legal reasons.

12-19-2007, 09:24 PM I have worked to answer questions. The reality is that my other tasks are frequently very time-sensitive and I have to put off answering your questions.

12-19-2007, 09:57 PM 3 days and I should be able to answer your questions.

12-20-2007, 03:16 AM Liberty Political Advertising still exists and has lawyers on retainer, etc...

In addition, francisco pointed out yesterday that Liberty Political Advertising LLC is registered in Missouri. Among the filings of this company is a document dated December 14 indicating that Jerry Collette resigned as registered agent, and nobody has taken his place. This is very likely a legal issue in itself.

The main point is that several people, including myself in this thread, have been waiting for answers to these 4 simple questions:

(1) What is the name of the company that is selling blimp time?

(2) In what state is this company registered?

(3) Who are the principal owners of this company?

(4) Why was all mention of "Liberty Political Advertising" removed from the web site?

For about a week now, there has been no answer to any of these questions from the blimp team. That is very strange in itself. Although I'm not a lawyer, I can't imagine any legal situation that would not allow them to reveal the name of the company selling blimp time.

 

[Cyclone]

svillee, nice work! Now we can all link to your wonderful research anytime we are asked these questions. So on, 12/19 she said she should be able to answer all questions in 3 days time. When she wrote that they were saying they needed a certain amount in donations by Friday, the 21st. So she was offering to give us the information on Saturday the 22nd. As someone wrote earlier, not the best business plan. Had they given the information out earlier they might have raised some funds earlier.

But I understand that sometimes for legal reasons you have to keep quiet.

Ok, so now what is the reason. And at the very least why not come back and update and say, I know you all were expecting answers on the 22nd, but it will have to wait until ...

Leaving us all hanging is just well, leaving us all hanging.

In the meantime, the website is a mess. The company is gone but they still say you are buying advertising time from a company and that is what protects you from the FEC, but then they removed the advertising time purchase option and they removed the company name as well and now call it sponsoring the blimp.

Perhaps some rich person would come in and sponsor the whole blimp if they knew what they were getting into with the FEC. But to donate now, well, you just don't know what will happen. They need to get this mess settled before they can get more donations and they are running out of time. Don't they need the money by this Friday or do I have that wrong?

Anyone have any idea how much they need by when to do what? I have gotten lost in all the updates. I don't know what the newest information is.


Also, NerveShocker, when you are just in settlement mode it is possible that no case has been filed against them at all yet and therefore there would be nothing for the MSM to dig up. As an example, if the FEC came to them and said, stop doing X or we will do Y and the two of them are negotiating it would be doubtful that anyone would hear anything. But as Liberty Eagle said above, if they have to pay money as a settlement, the only money the company has comes from donations, so anyone who ever has donated or ever will donate has a right to hear how their money was spent or was being intended on being spent. Don't you think? Again, as an example only, not being given any facts, say the FEC said pay us X by Dec. 31 and we won't do Y. What if the blimp folks came here and asked for that money and it turned out that the only thing they were going to use it on was to pay the FEC? Then you would want to know that is why they were asking for the money.

Or what if the blimp team spent x on the settlement and the only reason they need more money now is because they did spend that money. You would want to know that. Or if the FEC made them promise not to fly past the 31st, and they agreed. Again, you would want to know that before you donated.

Since we have no idea what is going on, it is making people antsy. They are worried that they could get into trouble with the FEC for donating, they are worried what their money is being used for, etc. etc. etc. I think as soon as the questions are answered, and the whole paying money to a company for advertising thing goes back into effect then the blimp will get more donations.

But then I have another question: What happens to all the people that are donating right now, while the advertising fiction is gone and there is no company to pay money to so you can buy that advertising? Are they going to get into trouble with the FEC? Will the blimp team get in trouble? What if Trevor and the others get into a whole lot of trouble for accepting all this money for a political ad funding without having a PAC? Can the FEC shut down the blimp? If so, wouldn't you want to know that before you donated another dollar?

These are all reasonable questions and they need answering.

 

[pacelli]

Below are links to what little information we have about the blimp team's legal issues. All of these are posts by Katharine Memole (Mckarnin).

12-18-2007, 03:39 PM More information on our need for legal assistance will be forthcoming in the next few days.

12-18-2007, 04:44 PM We have reached out and asked for help with our problems from the demographic that we need help from right now, lawyers.

12-18-2007, 06:12 PM With legal matters it is often the case that full disclosure is not possible before a settlement has been reached. That is our current situation.

12-18-2007, 08:26 PM While I can't go into details, suffice it to say that the need for a lawyer is closely tied to something that has been a huge time and energy drain on the project for the last 2 weeks.

12-19-2007, 09:11 PM I cannot answer some of the questions you are all asking for legal reasons.

12-19-2007, 09:24 PM I have worked to answer questions. The reality is that my other tasks are frequently very time-sensitive and I have to put off answering your questions.

12-19-2007, 09:57 PM 3 days and I should be able to answer your questions.

12-20-2007, 03:16 AM Liberty Political Advertising still exists and has lawyers on retainer, etc...

In addition, francisco pointed out yesterday that Liberty Political Advertising LLC is registered in Missouri. Among the filings of this company is a document dated December 14 indicating that Jerry Collette resigned as registered agent, and nobody has taken his place. This is very likely a legal issue in itself.

The main point is that several people, including myself in this thread, have been waiting for answers to these 4 simple questions:

(1) What is the name of the company that is selling blimp time?

(2) In what state is this company registered?

(3) Who are the principal owners of this company?

(4) Why was all mention of "Liberty Political Advertising" removed from the web site?

For about a week now, there has been no answer to any of these questions from the blimp team. That is very strange in itself. Although I'm not a lawyer, I can't imagine any legal situation that would not allow them to reveal the name of the company selling blimp time.

Quoted for truth and to preserve what you've typed. All of the information you posted is publically available. I'm impressed in your ability to condense issues from several threads into one post - nice job on that.

 

[pacelli]

Now we can all link to your wonderful research anytime we are asked these questions.

Well said. We'll keep that post as a reference just so we don't forget our facts and rehash old discussions

The company is gone but they still say you are buying advertising time from a company and that is what protects you from the FEC, but then they removed the advertising time purchase option and they removed the company name as well and now call it sponsoring the blimp.

Perhaps some rich person would come in and sponsor the whole blimp if they knew what they were getting into with the FEC. But to donate now, well, you just don't know what will happen. They need to get this mess settled before they can get more donations and they are running out of time. Don't they need the money by this Friday or do I have that wrong?

I'm not sure about this Friday - I don't think the ending day of the extension was announced. Could be completely off base, but looking forward to knowing if there is a final date, so we can rally for more funds. I'm actually confused about the whole FEC issue, and I'm glad you reminded me in the quote above, because I am unclear why they would have any authority over the blimp. The blimp project is for-profit, so they shouldn't even be a factor according to the blimp legal team. For crying out loud, one of the legal team members used to be the HEAD of the FEC. So I don't know why there would be any legal issues at all, but the details are none of my business.

Anyone have any idea how much they need by when to do what? I have gotten lost in all the updates. I don't know what the newest information is.

Yeah, it would be helpful to have an end date for this extension.

Again, as an example only, not being given any facts, say the FEC said pay us X by Dec. 31 and we won't do Y. What if the blimp folks came here and asked for that money and it turned out that the only thing they were going to use it on was to pay the FEC? Then you would want to know that is why they were asking for the money.

I'm sure that we'll be getting some updates from the legal team once the time is right. I haven't bothered to read the volumes of FEC rules about this type of thing, but I'm sure the blimp's legal FEC guru is on top of it. Also I'm sure the FEC is required to keep records of any communications they have with any outside company, and if memory serves correctly they can confirm or deny interaction with a company. Not sure about that one though. We might be in a limbo for awhile for further information.

But then I have another question: What happens to all the people that are donating right now, while the advertising fiction is gone and there is no company to pay money to so you can buy that advertising? Are they going to get into trouble with the FEC? Will the blimp team get in trouble? What if Trevor and the others get into a whole lot of trouble for accepting all this money for a political ad funding without having a PAC? Can the FEC shut down the blimp? If so, wouldn't you want to know that before you donated another dollar?

These are all reasonable questions and they need answering.

Well, we don't know for sure who is involved, for all we know a farmer could be raising hades because one of his horses was spooked by the blimp flying overhead. Your questions logically follow and are worthy of attention from a customer service standpoint, but I think a great deal more information is needed once the admitted issue is resolved.

 

[francisco]

...Liberty Political Advertising LLC is registered in Missouri. Among the filings of this company is a document dated December 14 indicating that Jerry Collette resigned as registered agent, and nobody has taken his place.

You may be overstating the case here. The document you cite clearly indicates that it is used for changes of the registrant's address and / or agent. The document shows a one-digit change in the mailing address. So perhaps this filing was used only to correct a typo in the address, or establish a separate mailbox so that mail associated with the Blimp would not be commingled with other business of the registrant.

The fact that the lines for listing an original and new agent are left blank may simply be because there was was no change in agent. I don't know. Neither do you. But if you are making charges, you should be very precise and not veer into speculation, if only to keep your own credibility intact.

You and I probably do agree on one thing: the Blimp team owes its customers a full explanation of the challenges it is facing.

 

[Cyclone]

I just found some stuff out about the FECA (Federal Election Campaign Act):

Section 309(d)(1)(A) is the main penalty provision of the FECA (2 U.S.C. § 437g(d)(1)(A)). As amended by section 312 of the Act, it states that "[a]ny person who knowingly and willfully commits a violation of any provision of this Act which involves the making, receiving, or reporting of any contribution, donation, or expenditure (i) aggregating $25,000 or more during a calendar year shall be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both; or (ii) aggregating $2,000 or more (but less than $25,000) during a calendar year shall be fined under such title, imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both.". (Before amendment by the Act, section 309(d)(1)(A) of the FECA provided for a maximum term of imprisonment of one year, or a fine, or both.)

http://www.ussc.gov/FEDREG/fedr0103a.htm These are proposed rule changes, but I can't tell when they were proposed or if they passed. Any law students around here? Can you find out what 309(d)(1)(A) says as of now?

 

[pacelli]

I just found some stuff out about the FECA (Federal Election Campaign Act):

Section 309(d)(1)(A) is the main penalty provision of the FECA (2 U.S.C. § 437g(d)(1)(A)). As amended by section 312 of the Act, it states that "[a]ny person who knowingly and willfully commits a violation of any provision of this Act which involves the making, receiving, or reporting of any contribution, donation, or expenditure (i) aggregating $25,000 or more during a calendar year shall be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both; or (ii) aggregating $2,000 or more (but less than $25,000) during a calendar year shall be fined under such title, imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both.". (Before amendment by the Act, section 309(d)(1)(A) of the FECA provided for a maximum term of imprisonment of one year, or a fine, or both.)

http://www.ussc.gov/FEDREG/fedr0103a.htm These are proposed rule changes, but I can't tell when they were proposed or if they passed. Any law students around here? Can you find out what 309(d)(1)(A) says as of now?

QFT, good piece of legislation right there.

 

[svillee]

You may be overstating the case here. The document you cite clearly indicates that it is used for changes of the registrant's address and / or agent. The document shows a one-digit change in the mailing address. So perhaps this filing was used only to correct a typo in the address, or establish a separate mailbox so that mail associated with the Blimp would not be commingled with other business of the registrant.

Thanks for pointing that out.

My only remaining reservation on the Missouri LLC is that on the "Legal Team" page, Jerry Collette is listed as being in Asheville, NC. In most states, the registered agent for a company must reside in that state. Maybe MIssouri is different, or maybe it's a different Gerald Collette. Just wondering.

 

[Cyclone]

Elijah was here today. Can some of the blimp folks let the blimp team know that there are a whole lot of questions in here that are not being answered? Also, there are a lot of questions in the Q & A section that have a need of a response. Hopefully, the next time Elijah visits he will come here and respond.

 

[walt]

still waiting