Bitcoin going ballistic.

[newbitech]

Banning bitcoin sounds about as easy as banning the internet.

Maybe China could pull it off within their own borders, but I don't readily see it as being currently possible in the West.

Not really, there are few key hubs that have driven the craze. Mt. Gox being one. If the world bank decided they wanted to shut it down at the behest of the US central bank, ICANN would turn off the domain pointer. That would just about disassemble the conversion infrastructure. Then, a few well placed announcements from the different government on how bitcoins are used to launder money to terrorist, and anyone found using bitcoins will be considered a potential terrorist.\

Overnight, bitcoin would become useless. No chance to recover for any of the hopeful honest folks who sought refuge from a debased currency.

Not necessarily saying its gonna happen tomorrow, but the fast btc replaces the USD and other world currencies the greater that risk becomes.

 

[muh_roads]

Not really, there are few key hubs that have driven the craze. Mt. Gox being one. If the world bank decided they wanted to shut it down at the behest of the US central bank, ICANN would turn off the domain pointer. That would just about disassemble the conversion infrastructure. Then, a few well placed announcements from the different government on how bitcoins are used to launder money to terrorist, and anyone found using bitcoins will be considered a potential terrorist.\

Overnight, bitcoin would become useless. No chance to recover for any of the hopeful honest folks who sought refuge from a debased currency.

Not necessarily saying its gonna happen tomorrow, but the fast btc replaces the USD and other world currencies the greater that risk becomes.

Tor browser would get a lot more popular.

 

[muh_roads]

i can see the temptation to compare bitcoin with gold in a government confiscation scenario. Difference being, they actually have to take the gold from my hands at least giving me a chance to hide it or defend myself.

Some people will manage to hide their gold in that event.

When the government comes for bitcoin, it's one fell swoop. You'll have no chance to back out, sell it off, defend it, bury it, send it to the bottom of the lake. When it's gone, it really is gone, vanished, poof. Right back where it came from.

The government can't really "ban" gold and shut it down like they can bitcoin.

They can try and confiscate, but then they have to pile it up somewhere and that becomes a target in the ensuing revolution that would occur.

If the world government decided to pull the plug on Mt. Gox for instance and release a UN statement backed by ICANN, IMF, World Bank etc etc, that bitcoins are recognized as international money laundering and fuel terrorist activities, that bitcoin doesn't get confiscated it really does go to the moon and beyond.

There will be no way to rebel against it besides transitioning into another electronic scheme similar to btc.

How do you shut down a persons wallet whose private keys never touch online? They can effect the price but they can't eliminate it.

 

[newbitech]

Tor browser would get a lot more popular.

Why? I thought bitcoin was all you needed to have anonymous transactions. So you want to add yet ANOTHER layer of software on top of these transactions?

Wonder what it will do to the adoption rate? You gonna need 600 million facebook users that give a wooden nickel about online privacy to pick up tor. good luck.

I find it remarkable that so many are buying in to this pricing environment. I think the odds of being technically scammed with this technology are extremely high and are growing on a daily basis.

I tend to look at the USD/Bitcoin pair not as a testament to the strength or value of BTC. In fact I think its quite the opposite. People putting $200 up for 1 BTC really do not value their USD at all and just shows how weak the USD is as a currency to have something like amazingly difficult to solve hashes being worth $5,000.

 

[newbitech]

How do you shut down a persons wallet whose private keys never touch online? They can effect the price but they can't eliminate it.

Shut down the person.

and, I imagine people will continue to find ways to trade without using USD. In fact, I would bet that the USD economy is a lot smaller than the non USD economy, maybe fractions.

Bitcoin is but a fraction of the USD economy.

It's doing good, I like it, just don't buy the hype.

If it replaces the USD, excellent. But I'll still be worth just as much BTC in 20 years as I am today. And my skills, ability, and ingenuity will still bring me the same standard of living whether I trade in USD or BTC or matches.

 

[Tod]

Has Jim Rogers made any statements about Bitcoin yet?

 

[presence]

If it replaces the USD, excellent. But I'll still be worth just as much BTC in 20 years as I am today. And my skills, ability, and ingenuity will still bring me the same standard of living whether I trade in USD or BTC or matches.

Nope, that's just not right. Every day that bitcoin becomes more accepted your work becomes worth less BTC. Further, every BTC in hand (saved) becomes worth more.

 

[dannno]

Why? I thought bitcoin was all you needed to have anonymous transactions. So you want to add yet ANOTHER layer of software on top of these transactions?

You don't need tor now and you are right that it would be difficult to get more people to adopt tor now simply because of bitcoin.. but if bitcoin gets big and then people who already own it must adopt tor, you will see a lot more people using it.

 

[muh_roads]

Why? I thought bitcoin was all you needed to have anonymous transactions. So you want to add yet ANOTHER layer of software on top of these transactions?

No I'm saying if government and ICANN cracks down on exchanges/online wallets, Bitcoin can always exist in the Tor browser. I bet some governments will embrace BTC, and ridicule the US for being so retarded about it...if they ever try to heavily regulate.

 

[Petar]

I still don't think that the US government or the UN is going to be able to just arbitrarily outlaw BTC.

People can cast aspersions about "funding terrorism" all they want, but once exchanges are recording transactions over $10k, then the government is going to have a very difficult time expanding their control beyond that.

Besides, what would happen to the value of BTC on the black-market if they even tried?

What would the price of cocaine be if it was not outlawed?

I just don't see any practical way for Western governments to stop BTC at this point.

I'm pretty sure that it would require some form of totalitarian martial-law right now.

Also, the more people use BTC, then the harder it will become for governments to crack down.

So buy BTC to help preserve liberty!

 

[muh_roads]

Shut down the person.

and, I imagine people will continue to find ways to trade without using USD. In fact, I would bet that the USD economy is a lot smaller than the non USD economy, maybe fractions.

Bitcoin is but a fraction of the USD economy.

It's doing good, I like it, just don't buy the hype.

If it replaces the USD, excellent. But I'll still be worth just as much BTC in 20 years as I am today. And my skills, ability, and ingenuity will still bring me the same standard of living whether I trade in USD or BTC or matches.

Going after every person is about as realistic as trying to go after all the pot smokers. And then even if you were successful with such a massive campaign, new users would appear again anyway. BTC is just a tiny fraction of the USD economy, you're right. So why waste resources trying to eliminate a bunch of rich nerds when they are in such a minority? Even if it goes to $100K for each coin that is only 1% of the global forex market.

Litecoin trades for $3-6 now because a service similar to SR on Tor started accepting them. They can take away our freedoms but can never take away our internets. And for that value will always remain.

I just don't care where the price goes. Many use these things for valid reasons and will always continue to do so for the same reasons they do now.

 

[muh_roads]

...

 

[muh_roads]

You don't need tor now and you are right that it would be difficult to get more people to adopt tor now simply because of bitcoin.. but if bitcoin gets big and then people who already own it must adopt tor, you will see a lot more people using it.

Yep, pretty much what dannno said.

I would welcome this if government tried to ban with their ineffective pen signatures. Tor needs a lot more people lending their server power and I think this would happen if more had a need for it. Tor is incredibly easy to use with the pre-configured browser bundles they offer, it is just slow right now.

 

[newbitech]

Nope, that's just not right. Every day that bitcoin becomes more accepted your work becomes worth less BTC. Further, every BTC in hand (saved) becomes worth more.

I think you missed the point. My value is already established. BTC value is not.

 

[newbitech]

You don't need tor now and you are right that it would be difficult to get more people to adopt tor now simply because of bitcoin.. but if bitcoin gets big and then people who already own it must adopt tor, you will see a lot more people using it.

I don't think tho that tor would save BTC value in the case of the global government coming down on BTC as an illegal means to launder money and shutting down the public exchanges. I think the liquidity of BTC would seize up almost immediately after such events and the BTC would be relegated to black markets. So even having TOR would not get round the distinct possibility that the only people accepting BTC would be the traditional black market "entrepreneur". I don't think that online retailers are going to cozy up to purchase by proxy any time soon.

But, I agree. Should government start racking people for simply finding another currency and bringing it out in to the open, it would lead more people to communicate by proxy. I think that's already happening too, but mostly in places where that is the only means of communicating truth in the face of tyrannical regimes.

I think bitcoin has value and I think it has already been a success. Just don't buy into the hype where its becoming more obvious we are dealing with hysterical ideas of getting rich with only the effort of getting to the spigot first. I don't see that as a good sign, and I don't find much integrity in it.

 

[dannno]

I think bitcoin has value and I think it has already been a success. Just don't buy into the hype where its becoming more obvious we are dealing with hysterical ideas of getting rich with only the effort of getting to the spigot first. I don't see that as a good sign, and I don't find much integrity in it.

It's not about getting rich as much as it is about taking down the current financial paradigm.

But if the people who bought into bitcoin first do get rich, which very well may happen, they deserve every penny...err Satoshi of it.. Why? Because everybody who is buying bitcoin today and making purchases is helping invest in companies and infrastructure that will serve all of the users in the future. Without them (aka us), this wouldn't be possible.

 

[newbitech]

I still don't think that the US government or the UN is going to be able to just arbitrarily outlaw BTC.

People can cast aspersions about "funding terrorism" all they want, but once exchanges are recording transactions over $10k, then the government is going to have a very difficult time expanding their control beyond that.

Besides, what would happen to the value of BTC on the black-market if they even tried?

What would the price of cocaine be if it was not outlawed?

I just don't see any practical way for Western governments to stop BTC at this point.

I'm pretty sure that it would require some form of totalitarian martial-law right now.

Also, the more people use BTC, then the harder it will become for governments to crack down.

So buy BTC to help preserve liberty!

I am not sure which government you have grown up living under, but the government I observe can pretty much do what it wants when it wants. The legal structure is already in place for cracking down on BTC.

I really see BTC as calling the bluff. That will last until it gets popular enough to become a threat. Then you will have your revolution. It will be up to the governments of the world to decide if it will be bloody and turn the tables. If BTC is not bluffing, and the people have the appetite for defiance, I would hope that you have cashed in your BTC by then.

The price is gonna flatten out. It's not going to go over a few hundred bucks if that. We'll the rise of many more competing currencies.

 

[anaconda]

The thought just occurred to me that the Feds might very much like to analyze the Bitcoin market for a significant period of time before shutting it down. Wouldn't you if you were the feds? They might very much be interested in modeling some growth rates in forming future strategies to combat alternate currencies. They might even like to test an array of strategies and therefore start with the least disruptive. Just a thought.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

i can see the temptation to compare bitcoin with gold in a government confiscation scenario. Difference being, they actually have to take the gold from my hands at least giving me a chance to hide it or defend myself.

Some people will manage to hide their gold in that event.

When the government comes for bitcoin, it's one fell swoop. You'll have no chance to back out, sell it off, defend it, bury it, send it to the bottom of the lake. When it's gone, it really is gone, vanished, poof. Right back where it came from.

The government can't really "ban" gold and shut it down like they can bitcoin.

They can try and confiscate, but then they have to pile it up somewhere and that becomes a target in the ensuing revolution that would occur.

If the world government decided to pull the plug on Mt. Gox for instance and release a UN statement backed by ICANN, IMF, World Bank etc etc, that bitcoins are recognized as international money laundering and fuel terrorist activities, that bitcoin doesn't get confiscated it really does go to the moon and beyond.

There will be no way to rebel against it besides transitioning into another electronic scheme similar to btc.

You are REALLY over-simplifying things. It doesn't matter what the scenario is. Confiscation is not instantaneous just because it happens via the internet and electricity. There's no central target that they can shut down and instantaneously get rid of the whole system. It would take a lot of work to find every single person who owns bitcoin, just like it would take work to hunt down every owner of gold. There is time to hide your bitcoin. It's not "one fell swoop". That's a gross oversimplification.

The government can't really "ban" bitcoin either. How do they shut it down? It's a p2p network and there is no central authority. They might target businesses, but they can also do that with gold. In fact, they already have. It's already illegal to use gold as money. Everything you just said about gold applies to bitcoin. The ensuing revolution... all of it.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I am not sure which government you have grown up living under, but the government I observe can pretty much do what it wants when it wants. The legal structure is already in place for cracking down on BTC.

I really see BTC as calling the bluff. That will last until it gets popular enough to become a threat. Then you will have your revolution. It will be up to the governments of the world to decide if it will be bloody and turn the tables. If BTC is not bluffing, and the people have the appetite for defiance, I would hope that you have cashed in your BTC by then.

The price is gonna flatten out. It's not going to go over a few hundred bucks if that. We'll the rise of many more competing currencies.

I doubt it. I don't see any other digital currencies posing a real threat to bitcoin without looking like a copycat. If it goes to a few hundred bucks, I don't see why it couldn't go further. It can penetrate the economy to such an extent that it is worth hundreds of dollars per BTC, then I would venture to say that there is still growth possible, and as we've seen, it won't take much for BTC to go through the roof.

And no, the government cannot do whatever it wants when it wants. That's why they still have to put on the facade of being legitimate and doing things for the public good. That's why we have all this propaganda. That's also why they haven't shut down the internet yet. So, no, the government cannot do "what it wants when it wants."