Big 3 may fail..

[heavenlyboy34]

Yep. Look at management salaries compared to workers over the years. Workers are going down relative to inflation, but management is skyrocketing The percentage differences are mind boggling. We are wiping out the middle class.
.

Sadly, I think you're right. The end result of immoral/unethical systems for organized groups of individuals is always destruction.

 

[torchbearer]

Sadly, I think you're right. The end result of immoral/unethical systems for organized groups of individuals is always destruction.

The union was responsible for the closing of a GM parts plant in Monroe,LA in 2006.
The janitors were making $17/hour.
Employees priced themselves out of a factory.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

I personally think Chap 11 will help the automakers. I mean they get to renegociate their debt, probably get rid of all the unions, retool and come out better companies if they can find exit lending in a few years

Screw them! they had thier chance in 1979! Let me refresh your memory.
The Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979

pfff

enjoy....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...antee+Act+of+1979&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

Failure gets rid of the garbage and makes room for better competition. That is what this is about stemming the competition. Oil prices will be maintained at a low price to keep everyone purchasing gas guzzling engines. We are repeating 1974-1979 again. Politically, this is about mantaning the voting base in the region that voted the Dems into office. Make no mistake.

 

[Dr.3D]

The janitors were making $17/hour.
Employees priced themselves out of a factory.

Now let's examine how much it costs to live these days.

Apartment: $350 - $400 per month. (conservative estimate)
Utilities: $50 - $200 per month. (northern climate)
Food: $280 per month per person.
Automobile Insurance: $100 - $200 per month. (depends on driving record and age)
Gasoline to get to work: $160 per month if lucky.

Total: $940 - $1240 per month, bare minimum to live for one person.
That comes out to $5.87 - $7.75 per hour if you can get 40 hours per week. (fat chance of that on a minimum pay job)
This of course does not count maintenance on the automobile or replacement of said automobile when the time comes.

When you add all of that together, I don't see $17 an hour all that excessive no matter what job the person was doing.

 

[Time for Change]

Since we are going to compare notes...

My first vehicle was a 1966 Chevy pickup that lasted over 25 years in our family.
Solid vehicle, easy maintenance, workhorse.
Given to a hotrodder that modified it heavily and races it today.

67 Pontiac with a 400...Solid car, easy to maintain.
Still on the road.

74 Dodge dart custom. Solid car, ran great until the day I got rid of it in 1995.
Original paint, engine, trans and driveline.
I still see that car on the road occasionally.

That's the benchmark.

Skip forward to more modern cars and see the quality decline...

1994 f-150 random battery explosions (4x) and dealer unable to resolve.
complete brake failure during normal operation, normal speeds, brakes just GONE (4x) Still one hell of a truck 351HO, E4OD with a 4:10 rear.
Pulled anything I asked with ease. Loved that truck.

1997 Dodge 1500 pickup - gutless POS drivetrain (empty truck), Cheap plastic interior, bent frame hauling one pallet of sod (Slow speed on nearly perfect roads). Did this fine with my 94 f-150.

1997 F-150 4x4 (dodge replacement) Not a work truck.
3 transmissions in 65k miles (first one at 37,000 miles exactly), constant engine stumbling and stalling issue that was irreparable with over 10 visits to the dealer, 4x4 engagement issues dealer could not fix.
One major headache from day one.

....Skipping one here....

Finally 2006 Tundra: Good truck. Works hard and rattle free.
Built in Princeton IN by american workers (non union)

Spouse:
94 Formula...well...it WAS a formula...lol...too busy playing to notice any issues

96 gmc jimmy bumper trim randomly popped off, cheap plastic interior parts randomly popping off, abs brakes engaging every other stop (increasing braking distance), multiple electrical issues, broken door handles, Engine gone at 30k miles.

99 Monte Carlo. All around junk. The stereo was good, but that's about it.
Cheap seats torn in seams first 5k, paint delamination issues after 3 months, untraceable vibration in driveline.

2006 Acura TL: Not a single problem

 

[slacker921]

This has everything to do with the unions...a crucial voting block for Obama/liberals.

They are cringing at the thought of losing all of those union votes and that control over the union people, in one big swoop.

This has nothing to do with cars, systemic risk, or saving jobs.

This has everything to do with the unions.

If they fail, the Obama agenda will take a big hit IMO. Obama needs the unions to further his agenda. So, IMHO, "burn, baby, burn!"

... bailout billions AND they get the Employee Free Choice Act.. mmmmm the unions are going to have a fine year if the big 2.5 get some of that bailout money.

 

[torchbearer]

Now let's examine how much it costs to live these days.

Apartment: $350 - $400 per month. (conservative estimate)
Utilities: $50 - $200 per month. (northern climate)
Food: $280 per month per person.
Automobile Insurance: $100 - $200 per month. (depends on driving record and age)
Gasoline to get to work: $160 per month if lucky.

Total: $940 - $1240 per month, bare minimum to live for one person.
That comes out to $5.87 - $7.75 per hour if you can get 40 hours per week. (fat chance of that on a minimum pay job)
This of course does not count maintenance on the automobile or replacement of said automobile when the time comes.

When you add all of that together, I don't see $17 an hour all that excessive no matter what job the person was doing.

Cost of living in louisiana is cheap.
Janitor positions at all other locations in monroe are between $7-$10/hr.
You fail. And so did the union. Instead of getting a reasonable salary they are now getting NIL.

 

[Dr.3D]

Cost of living in louisiana is cheap.
Janitor positions at all other locations in monroe are between $7-$10/hr.
You fail. And so did the union. Instead of getting a reasonable salary they are now getting NIL.

UAW national contracts don't have pay disparity for location. Your argument fails.

 

[torchbearer]

UAW national contracts don't have pay disparity for location. Your argument fails.

No, its not an argument. The plant is closed, the people are unemployeed.
You fail. UAW fails. The members of the monroe plant fail. Monroe's local economy fails.
I'm fine. I believe each person should negotiate their own work contract.
Which is greater? Getting paid $10/hour or $0/hour?
10>0?

edit: the people of that plant were not allowed to take less pay unless the union ok'd it first. failed in so many ways.

 

[Dr.3D]

No, its not an argument. The plant is closed, the people are unemployeed.
You fail. UAW fails. The members of the monroe plant fail. Monroe's local economy fails.
I'm fine. I believe each person should negotiate their own work contract.
Which is greater? Getting paid $10/hour or $0/hour?
10>0?

edit: the people of that plant were not allowed to take less pay unless the union ok'd it first. failed in so many ways.

It had nothing to do with the union.... it has to do with outsourcing.
Soon, all production will be done outside of this country regardless of unions or not.

 

[torchbearer]

It had nothing to do with the union.... it has to do with outsourcing.
Soon, all production will be done outside of this country regardless of unions or not.

yeah, it had nothing to do with the fact people were getting paid twice the going rate...had nothing to do with huge payroll.
The factory closed down to open up somewhere else so they could pay people the same amount elsewhere.

 

[Ilhaguru]

Guys! It's not all the unions!

It's a huge corporate tax burden. It's horrible, overpaid management. It's payroll taxes that come right out of wages.

There are many contributing factors here.

 

[torchbearer]

Factories move to louisiana because our standard of living is so low and general pay is low that they can get good cheap labor.
Put in a union with enough time and that benefit disappears and so does the plant.

I don't know anyone in alexandria that gets paid $17 an hour unless they are in high end technical jobs like IT.
And even then.. they usually start out at $15.

You can either price yourself out of a job and factory or take the going rate and have a job or factory.
Louisiana is a third-world country outside of new orleans and baton rouge.
Non-union plants survive, unionized plants are gone.
Cooper Cameron is an example of a non-union plant that is still going strong.

 

[torchbearer]

Guys! It's not all the unions!

It's a huge corporate tax burden. It's horrible, overpaid management. It's payroll taxes that come right out of wages.

There are many contributing factors here.

I'm talking about something that happened before the housing bubble.
These plants were leaving while the economy was still "going up".
This plant was making parts for another GM facility. I doubt taxes were a problem.

 

[Michigan11]

The bottom line is this: Henry Ford could not do today what he did 100 years ago.

All jobs are being flushed out of the country.
Whats left of the middle class is now considered 'upper class' and they are next to go.

The mechanisms of the government at all levels today have destroyed creation, invention, and hard work/thrift.

Conclusion: Most(should say some) are waiting for this system to die and hopefully start over as in 1776.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

The mechanisms of the government at all levels today have destroyed creation, invention, and hard work/thrift.

Conclusion: Most(should say some) are waiting for this system to die and hopefully start over as in 1776.

Yeap... here's the latest Grandstander colluding with government in other states, borrowing the Lobbyist firms from AIG... result TAXPAYER SCREWED. Socialism/Communism Lite is Upon us all.

The Title of the Article says it all, but she was also sitting right of the Communist POTUS-elect. Michigan's "Gov. Granholm: Obama Economic Insider"

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=&=1

Yesterday President-elect Barack Obama met with a team of economic advisers to craft a strategy to deal with the nation's suffering economy.


Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm spoke with "Good Morning America" about Obama's economic task at hand.
(ABC News)
Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm was there for it all as a member of Obama's economic advisory board.

Today, Granholm spoke with "Good Morning America" about the strategy Obama may implement after inauguration in January.

<=== Socialist AssHat Gov. Jennifer Granholm

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/business/2008/10/30/ddn103008autoweb.html

Governor of Ohio, 5 other states seek bailout aid for auto industry

Should the government help U.S. automakers?

WASHINGTON — Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland has joined with five other governors to urge the Treasury and the Federal Reserve to help American automakers.

"The financial well-being of other major industries and millions of American citizens are at risk," they wrote Wednesday in a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. "Immediate action is needed to address this crisis."

Strickland and the governors of Michigan, Kentucky, New York, Delaware and South Dakota want the federal government to use its new powers under the financial industry bailout approved Oct. 3 to pump money into the U.S. auto industry. The letter portrayed car manufacturing as a linchpin of the national economy, with almost 5 million workers participating in or dependent on the industry.

 

[Michigan11]

Also known as Granmole

While the state has lost hundreds of thousands of jobs in the last few years, she refuses to cut government. Typical government.

 

[Dr.3D]

Also known as Granmole

While the state has lost hundreds of thousands of jobs in the last few years, she refuses to cut government. Typical government.

And all this time, Michigan was upset with Canada sending them their trash. Now they have Granholm, and I understand she is from Canada. Guess Michigan still gets some Canadian trash. Maybe they can send that trash back to Canada?

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

Also known as Granmole

While the state has lost hundreds of thousands of jobs in the last few years, she refuses to cut government. Typical government.

Well, as much as I enjoy Michigan people... I object to Nevada or any other state's taxes going to Michigans because of; irresponsibilities, negligence, abusive politicians waste and/or FAILED Corporate business models.

I may be wrong, but I never heard of the: Department of GM, Federal Ford Act, or Community Chrysler Programs!


The NEW Federal Rewards Card Program.... APPLY NOW!

PS; How come, practically noone is mentioning the BILLIONS the Big 2.5 have and continue to spend overseas? GM's new plant in Russia? So is this another inside job, for another "GIVEAWAY" by over exploiting FAILURE? How about GM's $1.2 BILLION Hummer blackhole retooling/building.

So I guess I'll fail at work, at responsibilities, at paying all taxes, and contrive every failed future plan in my life... then, I'll just cry to the socialist/communist government to fix it all for me, for free, AND for a profit!

 

[We Are Ron Paul]

GM needs to go

Looks like the big three automakers might fail. But that Obama will use the bailout money intended for financials for the big 3 instead. What a load this is!...Personally, I think they need to fail (I hope they do) and should have been making a product people could buy a long time ago. Seems we learned nothing since the 1974 oil embargo. Besides this $$$ was intended for other purposes not for a UAW bailout.

I wrote a story about this subject a week ago arguing that GM's quiet departure might be nice for the auto industry in America.
-James