beware hydrolized protein, y'all

heavenlyboy34

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I'm a food label-reader. I noticed that in many common meat products hydrolized protein is used as a preservative in non-natural foods (usually meats). Beware of this stuff! Even the USDA warns:

Are MSG and hydrolyzed protein related?
Yes. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid. Glutamic acid is an amino acid, one of the building blocks of protein. It is found in virtually all food and, in abundance, in food that is high in protein, including meat, poultry, cheeses, and fish.

Hydrolyzed proteins, used by the food industry to enhance flavor, are simply proteins that have been chemically broken apart into amino acids. The chemical breakdown of proteins may result in the formation of free glutamate that joins with free sodium to form MSG. In this case, the presence of MSG does not need to be disclosed on labeling. Labeling is required when MSG is added as a direct ingredient.
(http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Help/FAQs_Flavorings/index.asp)

Hope this is useful to those preparing their SHTF food rations and so forth.

Ciao,
HB34. :cool:
 
WPH is much more plentiful in aminos than standard WPC and even WPI.

Best form.
 
Being a chemist that is also heavily interested in nutrition/fitness, I am highly skeptical that MSG can cause any problems. As soon as MSG hits your stomach, it will dissociate into L-glutamic acid and sodium chloride due to stomach acid. Unless it is absorbed sublingually and has some effect through that mechanism, there is no difference when eating L-glutamic acid or MSG.

However, problems could arise from a process that introduces some impurities when the MSG is created. The impurities could make it into the food and possibly produce a negative effect on the body. This wouldnt implicate MSG though, just the process.
 
Correct. For all intents and purposes, the two are the same species.

I'm not exceedingly familiar with nutrition outside of the field that I work in, but it seems likely to me that an excess of any one amino acid can cause problems. I remember reading that gelatin was not very good for you as it was composed of only three amino acids.
 
It probably would cause issues if there was an overabundance of a single amino acid, but take a look at the amount of MSG on anything. The palatable dosage for humans is 60mg/kg. 1 ounce of chicken contains about 660mg of glutamic acid which is approximately equivalent to 840mg of MSG (ratio of about 1.27:1 MSG to glutamic acid for a yield of glutamic acid molecules on a weight/weight basis.) Glutamic acid is by far the most abundant amino acid in food. It is also used in a wide variety of processes in the body. MSG is typically used at about 1% by weight so about a pound of food would contain 4.5g of MSG; equivalent to about 5 ounces of chicken. I cant imagine that this, specifically this, would cause any problems for the human body.

Also now that I think about it MSG would immediately dissociate upon contact with saliva as well. There would be no chance of MSG making it into the blood stream.

Yes gelatin, if used as a sole source of protein, would eventually make you ill and eventually cause death because it lacks most of the amino acids essential to life. It is an incomplete protein. When added to a well rounded diet, it causes no issues.
 
I don't know. It's possible that it reacts quickly with some specific protein in the body, but is quenched in the presence of other amino acids.

Upon reading the wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate), it seems that health concerns are overblown. Systematic studies have shown that MSG isn't any worse than a placebo in most people, save for those with an allergy.
 
I don't know. It's possible that it reacts quickly with some specific protein in the body, but is quenched in the presence of other amino acids.

Upon reading the wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate), it seems that health concerns are overblown. Systematic studies have shown that MSG isn't any worse than a placebo in most people, save for those with an allergy.

There are plenty of studies out there that show MSG causes overeating as well as diabetes.

I don't know why or how, but MSG some how makes your body think that you're hungry when you are not. Since I had a primarily MSG laden diet when I was younger via fast food and prepared foods, and now I don't, I would tend to agree. I used to crave crappy food even when I wasn't hungry. Now I don't crave crappy food, and I don't really crave food unless I'm hungry.

I think MSG also helps trick the body into thinking that sugar and fat laden foods are the most nutritious.. and they kinda are in a short term way, but MSG seems to increase the cravings for these types of foods rather than whole fruits and vegetables that give you the best nutrition in the long term.
 
MSG makes food taste better, so people eat more. That seems fairly simple. Good observation.
 
:rolleyes: MSG is a toxic substance; as in poisonous. Much as some here love to be contrary, the evidence on this is irrefutable if one institutes an honest inquiry.

Really, this is true.
 
:rolleyes: MSG is a toxic substance; as in poisonous. Much as some here love to be contrary, the evidence on this is irrefutable if one institutes an honest inquiry.

Really, this is true.

Prove it. Empty talk might get you far in some circles, but not around here (if I have anything to say about it).

MSG is only "toxic" because it makes horrible, non-nutritious food taste delicious, so people eat more. They eat tons of hamburgers, french fries, and fatty chinese food, and get the diseases that come from that. Those hamburgers should taste like the grade D meat that they are, but they taste about as good as what you buy in the grocery store, perhaps with a different texture.
 
Prove it. Empty talk might get you far in some circles, but not around here (if I have anything to say about it).

[h1]MSG (monosodium glutamate), Excitotoxins[/h1]
Seizures: The MSG Connection
From the book: "EXCITOTOXINS THE TASTE THAT KILLS"

by Russell L. Blaylock M.D.

MSG (monosodium glutamate) is a taste enhancing and hydrolyzed vegetable protein. At the time of discovery, MSG was thought to be safe since it was a natural substance (an amino acid). The amount of MSG alone added to foods has doubled in every decade since the 1940's and by 1972 262,000 metric tons of MSG were produced.
In 1957 two ophthalmologists, Lucas and Newhouse decided to test MSG on infant mice in an effort to study an eye disease known as hereditary retinal dystrophy. When they examined the eye tissue of the sacrificed animals they made a startling discovery. MSG had destroyed all the nerve cells in the inner layers of the animals retina which are the visual receptor cells of the eye.
Ten years later John W. Olney, M.D. a neuroscientist working for the Department of Psychiatry at Washington University in St. Louis repeated Lucus and Newhouse's experiment in infant mice. He found that MSG was not only toxic to the retina, but also to the brain. When he examined the animals brains, he discovered that specialized cells in a critical area of the animals brain, the hypothalamus, were destroyed after a single dose of MSG.
At this time the concentrations of MSG found in baby foods was equal to that used to create brain lesions in experimental animals and in all these experiments, immature animals were found to be much more vulnerable to the toxic effects of MSG than older animals (this was true for all animal species tested).
The FDA refused to take action after Dr. Olney informed the FDA and it was only after his testimony before a Congressional committee that the food manufactures agreed to remove MSG from baby foods.
But instead of adding MSG, added hydrolyzed vegetable protein, instead. Today EXCITOTOXINS are still added to our food, usually in the form of caseinate, beef or chicken broth, or flavoring.
In experimental animals "MSG babies" are found to be short in stature, obese and have difficulty reproducing. This effect only becomes evident long after the initial use of MSG exposure. More detailed studies have found that "MSG babies" have severe disorders involving several hormones normally produced by the hypothalamus.
MSG is not the only taste "enhancing" food additive known to cause damage to the nervous system. They all share one important property.
When neurons are exposed to these substances, they become very excited and fire their impulses very rapidly until they reach a state of "extreme exhaustion". Several hours later these neurons suddenly die as if the cells were excited to death.
As a result, neuroscientists have dubbed these class of chemicals "EXCITOTOXINS."
Several EXCITOTOXINS are man made,-- others are found in nature-- such as glutamate, aspartate and cysteine - all which are amino acids.
MSG is a modified from of 'glutamic acid' in which sodium is added to the molecule. But the toxic portion is the *glutamic* acid, not the sodium.
Often manufactures will mix MSG with other substances to "disguise" it.
Hydrolyzed vegetable protein also referred to as vegetable protein, or plant protein is a mixture made from "junk" vegetables,-- unfit for sale, especially selected so as to have naturally high contents of "glutamate".
The extraction process of "hydrolysis" involves boiling these vegetables in a vat of acid, followed by the process of neutralization with caustic soda. The resulting product is a brown sludge that collects on top. This is scraped off and allowed to dry and the end product is a brown powder that is high in 3 known EXCITOTOXINS -- glutamate, aspartate and cystoic acid (which converts in the body to cysteine).
It's then added to the food manufacture.
All these chemicals stimulate the taste cells in the tongue, thereby enhancing the taste of food. Another excitotoxin additive is the artificial sweetener Nutra-sweet, 40% of the compound is composed of the excitotoxin "aspartate". Like glutamate, aspartate is a powerful brain toxin, which can produce similar neuron damage.
It is well recognized that 'liquid' forms of excitotoxins are much more toxic to the brain than dry forms, as they absorb faster and produce higher blood levels than when mixed with solid foods.
But the negative effects of excitotoxins are not limited to small children. There is growing evidence that excitotoxins play a major role in a whole group of degenerative brain diseases in adults - especially the elderly.
These diseases include Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease, Huntington disease, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) and more disorders of the nervous system.
What all these disease have in common is a slow destruction of brain cells that are specifically sensitive to excitotoxin damage. More and more diseases of the nervous system are being linked to excitotoxin build-up in the brain.
For example, disorders such as strokes, hypoxic brain injury, hypoglycemic brain damage, seizures, migraine headaches, hypoxic brain damage, ADD, ADHD, and even AIDS dementia have been linked to excitotoxins 'damage'.
There is evidence that some individuals born with "metabolic" defects in certain brain cells may be particularly susceptible to excitotoxin damage.
The food industry and representatives of the glutamate manufactures have joined together to fight anyone who would dare criticize the use of flavor enhances, in fact they have formed a special lobby group to counter any negatives about their product.
This group is called the Glutamate Association and is made up of representatives of major US food manufacturers and the Ajinomoto G. based in Japan, the chief manufacturer of MSG and hydrolyzed protein.
The 'neuron system' within the hypothalamus appears to use glutamate as a neurotransmitter. The pituitary gland "Master Gland" controls the other endocrine glands, such as the adrenals, the thyroid and reproductive organs by releasing small amounts of it's controlling hormones into the blood.
What controls the pituitary gland, the hypothalamus - it controls hormone releasing factors that stimulate the pituitary to release hormones. By the feed back control, the hypothalamus "regulates" the hormone balance in the body.
Sort of a hormone thermostat.
The discovery by Dr. Olney was particularly important, because the hypothalamus plays an important role in "controlling" so many areas of the body.
The hypothalamus regulates growth, the onset of puberty, most of the endocrine glands, appetite, sleep cycles and waking patterns, the biological clock and even "consciousness" itself. When MSG feed in doses similar to those found in human diets, destroys hypothalamic neurons. Later experiments demonstrated that MSG could cause the hypothalamus to secrete excessive amounts of a reproductive hormone (luteinizing hormone) which is associated with an early onset of puberty. Many of these endocrine effects appeared at an older age.
The primary purpose of us eating is to support the chemical reactions of the body. Many of the substances absorbed from our food plays a vital role in the overall metabolic process of life. When adult humans are fed 100-150 milligrams per kilogram of body weight of MSG, their blood levels rise 20 times higher than normal as compared to a four fold rise seen in experimental mice fed a comparable dose. A child's brain is four times more 'sensitive' than an adult brain to these toxins.
Glutamate and aspartate are "s" neurotransmitters (the keys) found normally in the brain and spinal cord and even though they are two of the most common transmitter chemicals in the brain and spinal core, when their concentrations rise above a critical level they become deadly "toxins" to the neurons containing "glutamate receptors" (the locks).
What this means is that excessive glutamate will not only kill the 'neurons' with the receptors for glutamate, but it will also kill any neuron that happens to be connected to it, even if that neuron uses another type of transmitter. Both glutamate and aspartate can cause neurons to become extremely 'excited' and if given in large enough doses, they can cause the cells to degenerate and die. It is for this reason that the nervous system carefully controls the concentration of these two amino acids in the fluid surrounding the neurons (called the extracellular space). Even small doses can damage these neurons without actually killing them. Within 15-30 minutes after being exposed to high doses of MSG, neurons suspended in tissue culture are seen to 'swell' like balloons. Within 3 hrs. those neurons are not only dead, but the bodies defense mechanism begins to haul away the "debris".
Be aware, the FDA does not regulate the amount of carcinogens allowed in "hydrolyzed vegetable protein" or the amount of hydrolyzed vegetable protein allowed to be added to food products.
Manufacturers disguise MSG- in foods it is disguised as hydrolyzed vegetable protein, natural flavorings and spices, each of those may contain 12%-40% MSG.
[h1]MSG-free: Avoiding the hidden sources[/h1]
-- Sufferers of monosodium glutamate (MSG) toxicity syndromes have long been dismissed by the makers of glutamate and food additives and by the FDA, whose labeling standards for foods containing the controversial flavor enhancer are fairly lax. For many of these MSG sufferers, the experience of coping with the ambiguities of food labeling leaves them feeling like Han Solo navigating his way through an asteroid field. Not only is it confusing -- it can be very dangerous. ~WebMD

Cont'd Here: http://life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Blaylock/MSG:_Excitotoxins[url]http://life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Blaylock/MSG:_Excitotoxins[/URL]
 
I have never seen any of the results claimed there in any reputable peer reviewed journal. Show me the research that gives those conclusions. I dont see any references in the link you provided... and no, I am not impressed with the M.D. behind his name.
 
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I have never seen any of the results claimed there in any reputable peer reviewed journal. Show me the research that gives those conclusions. I dont see any references in the link you provided... and no, I am not impressed with the M.D. behind his name.

Do you frequently pore over peer reviewed journals?

If you're not impressed with the M.D. behind his name, you should be.

Dr. Blaylock is a board certified neurosurgeon engaged in a private neurosurgical practice for the past 21 years. During this time he has had a strong interest in nutritional treatment of neurological disorders and in the biochemical basis of diseases of the nervous system. ADD and ADHD have been a part of his interest because of the relationship to the excitotoxic process. In 1994 he wrote a book on this subject, Excitotoxins, The Taste That Kills, and revised and updated it in 1998. He has written and illustrated three chapters in medical textbooks and a patient care booklet on multiple sclerosis. In addition he has published several papers in peer reviewed journals on a variety of subjects from the pathology and treatment of pituitary tumors to immunothearpy of brain tumors. He has appeared on the 700 Club approximately 7 times, Life Style Magazine once, and 30 plus syndicated radio programs discussing the book. While he does not treat ADD in his practice, he has given advice to a number of mothers and have found that a significant number improve and some quite dramatically. Excitotoxins, The Taste That Kills by Russell L Blaylock, M.D.

Thanks for writing.
 
I have never seen any of the results claimed there in any reputable peer reviewed journal. Show me the research that gives those conclusions. I dont see any references in the link you provided... and no, I am not impressed with the M.D. behind his name.

Eat your MSG!
 
Being a scientist, I read peer reviewed journals all the time.

MDs are morons, at least when it comes to actual science. I know, I work with them all the time. Just because someone is good at doing surgery doesn't mean they are good at science. In fact, the two are far more likely to be mutually exclusive. 99% of the medical students that come through my school can't even draw the structure of an amino acid.

This article is an example of that problem. This guy has his causes and effects mixed up. Brain damage, whether in the form of stroke or degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's, damages the glutamate transporters and causes them to work in reverse. When that happens, it doesn't matter how much or how little glutamate you have in your blood, as if you have enough to form the proteins needed to live, you have enough to kill neurotransmitters when those pumps increase their concentration in the extracellular space. Even then, it isn't the glutamate that causes the cell death, it's Ca2+. Surely you wouldn't argue that CALCIUM is toxic!?

Hell, blood levels of glutamate don't even matter, as it doesn't even pass the blood-brain barrier! http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/4/1016S This is a major peer reviewed journal.

Also, I lol'd that you think a few appearances on THE 700 CLUB makes the author more credible rather than less.

The problem with conspiracy theorists in the medical world is that any lies are easy to see through, and are weeded out in the peer review process. You can make wild claims in non-peer reviewed journals, or on random nutjob internet blogs, but nobody should believe anything published there unless the results have been reproduced by others. When you have a lot of eyes on a subject, the likelihood of fraud goes to zero. That is what real science is about. The vast majority of MD's are great at what they do, but science isn't part of their job description. Indeed, they suck at science, moreso even than a joe-off-the-street, because they think they are smarter than everyone else, and many have God complexes. Leave science to the PhDs, but don't take someone at their word just because they have one. Peer review is the only way to prove anything.
 
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