best thing to say to a pro-ObamaCare fan?

[heavenlyboy34]

Every time I debate an ObamaCare fan, they constatntly insist that there is a universal "right" to healthcare, and it should be free to everyone, etc. Logic and economic reasoning doesn't seem to penetrate these people. What does?

 

[TCE]

One of three things:

1. Let them have their universal coverage. They can pay into a government plan and use it while the rest of us keep what we have and don't pay into it. Why are we being forced into paying for something we don't want?

2. Prepare to have taxes go up. It is going to cost at least over $1.3 trillion over ten years. There is no money to pay for anything, so taxes must go up to pay the difference.

3. We can't afford it. We are almost $12 trillion in debt. Eventually we will go bankrupt or taxes will be raised heavily to cover the difference. Shouldn't we be cutting costs and not adding on more?

 

[Brian Defferding]

Ask them how many federal government programs are financially solvent. Remind them the promises FDR made about how Social Security would cost no more than $300/citizen. Remind them how the Postal Service is working on a loss despite stamp fee rate increases.

If they start citing single-payer European countries and how much less they pay there, ask them about the malpractice laws and doctor pay in those countries. Ask them just how, exactly, everybody in the American insurance and medical industry will just up and give government control for a single payer system.

I don't think Obama is lying about financial solvency of his premium-based program, but voters should be wiser from looking at statistical history of every large federal program out there - these programs will be working at a loss eventually, and they will have to face either rate hikes, government rationing of care, borrowing from the government itself, and/or a tax rise.

We do have a health care problem in America, but we have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and state-run health care programs - if those programs still haven't resolved the health care issue, another new bureau of government will not solve the problem either. We should look into streamlining government - perhaps consolidate Medicare/Medicaid together and turn it into a premium-based program (one government program is not as bad as three to five government programs) - then look into breaking down and repealing laws that increase the cost of care, like service mandates for insurance.

 

[Acala]

Ok

If it is such a good idea, make it optional! If the government is really going to cut costs and provide better service, and make it all cheaper, people should flock to it. So why not give people a choice? And people who choose not to participate can fend for themselves in the free market.

 

[Brett]

Healthcare is a service provided by other people. You are not entitled to be served by someone against their will.

 

[pacelli]

Are these real face-to-face people or are these keyboard commandos playing their screen names on an online forum?

 

[Original_Intent]

Make them defend the position that healthcare is a universal right.

The only right they have to healthcare is the right to obtain it. It is not and cannot be defended as an entitlement.

Does the right to bear arms mean the government should buy anyone that wants one a gun?

Does the right to freedom of religion mean that the government should build a church for anyone that wants one?

Does the right to freedom of the press and free speech mean that the government should provide me with a printing press or a television station to spread my PoV?

I realize that these are people that cannot be reasoned with and raising any of these point or any of the others posted here will likely be ignored. They want their "free" healthcare and they are not going to listen to anyone that says they can't have it.

 

[dantheman]

talk to them about the efficiencies of other programs. look at No Child Left Behind. are our younger generations any smarter now? point out the lack of care at the Walter Reed Medical Center a few years ago. there was a huge scandal on how OUR TROOPS weren't getting the care they needed and how the facility wasn't clean or well kept.

if they treat our own soldiers like this, how are they going to take care of 300 million of us? and that's a good statistic to throw at them when it comes to their arguments for France and Canada. neither one of those countries has any where near even 100 million people. Nor does England. our country is so much bigger in population and so spread out. how is this system going to work without all the usual mess that Washington produces?

 

[LibertyEagle]

best thing to say to a pro-ObamaCare fan?

Goodbye.

 

[loudes13]

These people have no clue about economics or markets. Face they believe Biden when he says .gov needs to spend more to save $ and GWB to abandon the rket to save the market.

I would use small, bite size chunks of logic. No long answers, only one answer at a time. These people have VERY short attention spans. Maybe use a song or cartoon like with children.

 

[bchavez]

Let me ask you a basic question:

Why should I be forced to subsidize your healthcare costs?

From a constitutional stand point, I should not be forced to subsidize people who live “risky” life styles or have been dealt unfortunate outcomes.

This includes:
- People who have unprotected sex and contract STDs without considering the consequences
- People who overeat and indulged in fatty foods and unhealthy diets
- People who smoke cigarettes and develop lung cancer
- People who are alcoholics and get hung over every weekend without considering the harm they’ve done to their own body.

Again, why should I be forced to subsidize the cost of these individuals who choose to live unhealthy life styles? Is this a fair system? Absolutely not.

You should understand the risks and consequences of the choices you make in your adult life and face the consequences of those choices.

So, remind me:
- Why should I trust a government who lied about WMDs and the Iraq war?
- Why should I trust a government who failed to prevent 9/11?
- Why should I trust a government who said our economy was fine?
- Why should I trust a government who sponsored Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae (the leaders in our economic collapse)?
- Why should I trust a government who is failing to operate and maintain, lasting & long term entitlement programs such as Social Security?
- How can I trust a government that says it can control the cost of healthcare, when it can hardly manage its own budget?

See how Social Security has failed:
YouTube - Peter Schiff, September 9th - MONEY BOMB

If the US Government can barley keep Social Security and Medicare operating long term, what makes you think a national healthcare system run by the US Government would work?

The “American Dream” is not a government program.

 

[Young Paleocon]

Didn't Murray advise to not argue on utilitarian grounds but on the morality of an issue?

 

[tmosley]

Lots of good answers in this thread. If none of those work, try this:

YouTube - Jay & Silent Bob - Good Will Hunting 2

Applesauce, bitch.

 

[dsarver88]

okay, how about this tactic?

Every time I debate an ObamaCare fan, they constatntly insist that there is a universal "right" to healthcare, and it should be free to everyone, etc. Logic and economic reasoning doesn't seem to penetrate these people. What does?

Simply give them a dose of reasonable forecasting?

Just say:

Ok, let's assume its a right, and let's also assume the government should be the "director" of this care system, and let's assume it works so well that health insurance companies go broke or the few remaining policies are 10K per month.

Everyone has coverage and nobody worries about their healthcare anymore

And then on a cold day in January of 2013 the next president is sworn in


Ladies & Gentlemen, Announcing our new leaders

President Jeb Bush
Vice President Mike Huckabee

NOW, are you excited about your government run healthcare now?!?!

Are you certain NOW that this right should be in the hands on your elected officials???

Will a value be placed on life NOW that will affect your personal right to healthcare???


Then you simple drive home the point that anytime you let government do something, there is the strong possibility that the government will but it's no longer the government you wanted...

Are you scared what Republicans will do to Medicare??? Then perhaps you shouldn't put it in their hands!!!

Worried about what is being taught in your schools??? Perhaps you should find another way to do this without submitting it to the whims of the people every 2-4 years...

No person who leans against individual liberty is scared by their side so just show them how their actions allows them to fall deeper into their enemies hands

To preserve yourself and your way of life you cannot surrender your freedom to authority - even the authority you prefer...

*NOTE - I make no claims against Jeb & Mike. I am just using them as an example because the Obama supporters seem to fear them the most. Argument works the other way using Hillary & Olberman*

 

[Pauls' Revere]

If it is such a good idea, make it optional! If the government is really going to cut costs and provide better service, and make it all cheaper, people should flock to it. So why not give people a choice? And people who choose not to participate can fend for themselves in the free market.

Couldn't have put it any better...

 

[The_Orlonater]

Didn't Murray advise to not argue on utilitarian grounds but on the morality of an issue?

That isn't effective, nobody cares about morality.