Base in Saudi Arabia?

[SFHSRonPaulFan]

My father is a huge advocate of Dr. Paul's economic ideas and his whole domestic policy in general. However, he vehemently disagrees with the notion that exiting the Middle East would quell all the hatred felt toward the United States. He cites specifically the reason given for 9/11 that we have a base in Saudi Arabia, which in his view is proposterous. This base is in place at the request of the Saudi government because they are afraid of a psychopath like UBL trying to blow up their oil or destroy their government. If we were to remove the base, they would just come up with another equally idiotic excuse along the lines of, "They take our oil and profit off of it while we live here like dogs." He says that people join this radical movement because they have generally no contact with the outside world besides what their gov't permits and that removing one of their supposed "reasons" would do nothing to quell the radical Islamic movement. What is the proper response, if any, to this claim?

 

[Violet1776]

Another puppet regime

Google eric margolis and Saudi Arabia puppet regime

 

[pdavis]

Google eric margolis and Saudi Arabia puppet regime

You can also google Micheal Sheuer, former Chief of the CIA bin Laden Unit.

 

[lbadragan]

Osama Bin Ladin's 1998 fatwa: "First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples."

Buy him a copy of the 9/11 Commission Report. It talks about what motivates terrorists and what drives them to commit suicide. (Hint: it's not American free speech.)

Ask him how Americans would feel if China was the superpower of the world and their sanctions against us would result in half a million dead children. (Iraq)

Ask him if he believes in cause and effect.

 

[Liberty Star]

Ron Paul is right, we should believe what they tell us. But having a base wasn't among the things on top of the list of their grievances in this OBL letter that UK's Guardian newspaper had published in 2002, he starts with Palestine. I recall an analysis on it back then, he mentioned the word Palestine/Palestinian 16 times while explaining his cause in that published letter. Israel's occupation of arabs and our military support of Israeli policies in territories seems like the bigger issue for Arabs even than any base or Iraq issue.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,,845725,00.html

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?


As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.

(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

 

[1000-points-of-fright]

He cites specifically the reason given for 9/11 that we have a base in Saudi Arabia, which in his view is proposterous. This base is in place at the request of the Saudi government because they are afraid of a psychopath like UBL trying to blow up their oil or destroy their government.

He just partly answered his own question. He's right, the base is there at the request of the Saudi government. But he also needs to take it one step further and realize that the Saudi government is a pretty brutal monarchy and is unpopular. Therefore our military base is seen as protecting an unpopular government from its own people. They hate us because we support their oppressors.

 

[nickcoons]

[Ron Paul] cites specifically the reason given for 9/11 that we have a base in Saudi Arabia, which in his view is proposterous. This base is in place at the request of the Saudi government because they are afraid of a psychopath like UBL trying to blow up their oil or destroy their government.

Others have mentioned in this thread how our support of the Saudi government is not equivalent to the support of the Saudi people. The Saudi government is awful, and doing something to help them makes us look bad in the eyes of Middle Easterners.

But I would like to add that this base is only one of several reasons. There are many reasons given for why they hate and terrorize us, all of which fall under the umbrella of our miserable foreign policy.

 

[noztnac]

My father is a huge advocate of Dr. Paul's economic ideas and his whole domestic policy in general. However, he vehemently disagrees with the notion that exiting the Middle East would quell all the hatred felt toward the United States. He cites specifically the reason given for 9/11 that we have a base in Saudi Arabia, which in his view is proposterous. This base is in place at the request of the Saudi government because they are afraid of a psychopath like UBL trying to blow up their oil or destroy their government. If we were to remove the base, they would just come up with another equally idiotic excuse along the lines of, "They take our oil and profit off of it while we live here like dogs." He says that people join this radical movement because they have generally no contact with the outside world besides what their gov't permits and that removing one of their supposed "reasons" would do nothing to quell the radical Islamic movement. What is the proper response, if any, to this claim?

Our job is not to keep other nations from fighting each other. The idea is to let them have their wars and for us to stay neutral. We have the highest debt of any nation in the world. Why should my tax dollars go to defend Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc.

If your dad wants to send part of his own paycheck to fund the defense of those countries that is fine with me. But I have a serious problem with your dad thinking it is my duty to pay part of my income to fund what I see as an illegal war that is not in our nation's interest.

Print this out and hand it to your dad. Tell him I'd like a response. You can PM me his response.

Thanks.

 

[lbadragan]

If he likes Giuliani's foreign policy, tell him to take Giuliani's advice as given in the ABC/Facebook debate and read what the terrorists say. If he does, he'll also realize how highly Giuliani thinks of the American people. He's betting that 99.9% of the people watching the debate will just take his word for it and not read 1 page written by OBL or midlle-eastern authors.

 

[Ron2Win]

Think about this. Let's say we were a free nation that respected others.

We traded and talked to them. And our money would benefit their country, where is the incentive to kill us?

The problem is that only a few profit from the oil, at the expense of millions. The millions get pissed at those "usurping" their nation.

 

[Ron Paul Fan]

They see the Arabian Penninsula as their holy land. Ask your dad if he'd be angry if China came over here, bombed your house, and started building a base in its place.

 

[VoteForRonPaul]

My father is a huge advocate of Dr. Paul's economic ideas and his whole domestic policy in general. However, he vehemently disagrees with the notion that exiting the Middle East would quell all the hatred felt toward the United States. He cites specifically the reason given for 9/11 that we have a base in Saudi Arabia, which in his view is proposterous. This base is in place at the request of the Saudi government because they are afraid of a psychopath like UBL trying to blow up their oil or destroy their government. If we were to remove the base, they would just come up with another equally idiotic excuse along the lines of, "They take our oil and profit off of it while we live here like dogs." He says that people join this radical movement because they have generally no contact with the outside world besides what their gov't permits and that removing one of their supposed "reasons" would do nothing to quell the radical Islamic movement. What is the proper response, if any, to this claim?

Tell him that removing military bases is not everything, but it is first step toward making good relation with the main stream Muslims around the world, and tell him also that the government of Saudi Arabia is a corrupted government and that nobody endorses it not in Saudi Arabia itself nor in any other Arab nation, everybody knows about the loving relationship between the Saudi government and between the Bush and pre Bush Administrations, and that is why Ron Paul is going to be a revolution because he is going to stop supporting all these dictators and corrupted governments around the Islamic world, and Ron Paul's non-intervention humble policy is going to reflect itself on the main stream Muslims, because the majority of Muslims around the world dream of fair balanced American leader, but they do not think this is ever going to happen because they know how powerful are lobbyists and their influence on the American foreign policies, but once this dream comes true, they will all turn to love that man, that man is only Ron Paul and nobody else, this man is going to save lives and is going to save the billions and billions of dollars that have been spent for decades to feed dictators, and the more they are fed the more hatred in the hearts is built toward America, also tell him that the policy of Ron Paul is going to give the moderate voice between Muslims a chance to shine, because the moderate Muslims are the majority but their voice is too low compared to extremists, and once the incentives of those extremists are not there, the moderate voice of Muslims is going to rise and dominate but now their voice is depressed and if you talk to an extremist he mostly is going to tell you, do not you see what they are doing here and there. Ron Paul has a level of understanding which is above all because he dives to the roots of problems, but all other candidates specially Rudy and McCain, want to keep blowing in the fire, and people because they are ignorants about the laws of nature they would not know that blowing in the fire would increase the damage and can destroy everything

 

[SFHSRonPaulFan]

Thanks for all the responses, one of many reasons I enjoy this board so much. Just one more question. If we were to take our base out of Saudi Arabia, wouldn't that make it very easy or at least possible for Al-Qaida or something of the sorts to try and bomb it and drive prices up? If so, is that the federal government's responsibility to try and stop this from hurting the American people? Thanks again.

 

[silus]

Let me clear this up once and for all!...


The most important thing to understand, and what is being completely lost in the media is that this is NOT Ron Paul's opinion. He did not develop this opinion independently, alone in the cellars. This is what the experts of that region and of terrorism have concluded.

Ron Paul supporters must stop implicitely agreeing to the notion that this is just Ron Paul's own theory. It is NOT. His political opponents and the pundits WANT to characterize this theory as just his own so they can more easily attack him. Whenever we need to defend his position, we must first start by saying this is not his theory, but that of the experts who study these subjects. Then we can begin by saying why it is a respectable idea.

Lets stop trying to defend his rational from the point of view that it just belongs to him!!

 

[Liberty Star]

Well put.

 

[nickcoons]

Thanks for all the responses, one of many reasons I enjoy this board so much. Just one more question. If we were to take our base out of Saudi Arabia, wouldn't that make it very easy or at least possible for Al-Qaida or something of the sorts to try and bomb it and drive prices up? If so, is that the federal government's responsibility to try and stop this from hurting the American people? Thanks again.

You say this as if Al Qaeda has some sort of military capability of actually engaging in this. There are a thousands of non-Al Qaeda for every one Al-Qaeda.. it's not some global superpower.

Oil prices are about $100/barrel now. Before we got involved a few years ago, oil prices were about $24/barrel. I say this almost facetiously, but I'm not sure that an attack on oil fields in Saudi Arabia could have actually made the economics of this situation any worse that we have.

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

Thanks for all the responses, one of many reasons I enjoy this board so much. Just one more question. If we were to take our base out of Saudi Arabia, wouldn't that make it very easy or at least possible for Al-Qaida or something of the sorts to try and bomb it and drive prices up? If so, is that the federal government's responsibility to try and stop this from hurting the American people? Thanks again.

The base is not much of an anti-terrorist center and is more of just another fat American target.

If the Saudis want to make money by selling to us, they should protect their own oil facilities.

Many things are possible. It is possible that oil prices will decline from less violence and less risk.

He is correct that bin Laden could keep making up more reasons but how effectively?

"They are killing our children." Recruits=100?
"They are showing Disney films to our children." Recruits=1?

See http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/2008/01/interventionists-take-marching-orders.html

 

[Copernicus]

What is America doing having a base in another country anyway?
That is specifically what the founders warned us against my friends.
It is imperialistic and other countries resent it.
How would you like it if you had a Chinese base near you here in America?
Think about that.

 

[durden0]

Could someone cite some sources about the unrest of the saudi people with their government, as well as US aid to saudi government? It's alot easier to make these arguments to people when you have proof.

 

[i2ambler]

Here are the oil prices:
http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1947.gif

Now.. heres where we get our oil..
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

So.. why are the saudis jacking up the price? most of our oil comes from the top 5 countries listed in there.. canada at #1.. who is pocketing the money?