Barack Obama vs. Ron Paul on Separation of Church and State
- Thread starter jorger
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Chester Copperpot
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yeah sounds like Obama is trying to get onto the 'Copy Ron Paul bandwagon'
Now Obama is/was a COnsitutional Professor!?!?!?
Thats a new one for me
If true I guess that doesnt mean much for him upholding his oath to the Constitution since his oath to the CFR takes priority
Why does everyone always forget what the 1st Amend. says?
It says "CONGRESS shall make no law"
I support full and 100% separation of Church and State, but I do not need Washington to tell Montgomery what pictures are allowed in the halls of state buildings......
It says "CONGRESS shall make no law"
I support full and 100% separation of Church and State, but I do not need Washington to tell Montgomery what pictures are allowed in the halls of state buildings......
d'anconia
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- 328
Yeah I haven't liked Ron Paul's *personal* views on religion but in all honesty I'm not very worried about it getting in the way of his politics. Looking at his voting record you'll realize he doesn't support forcing religion down people's throats through the government. His pro-life, non-pre-emptive aggression, and anti-federal funding toward "gay" things don't rub me the wrong way.
What the Constitution says regarding Church and State is fairly ambiguous (even I, as an Atheist, will openly admit that) but I hope Ron is still just trying to garner the religious vote. I hope he gets a lot of those votes but damn it would be awesome if he served 8 years only to subsequently admit he is an atheist/agnostic.
Oh well I guess I can dream.
What the Constitution says regarding Church and State is fairly ambiguous (even I, as an Atheist, will openly admit that) but I hope Ron is still just trying to garner the religious vote. I hope he gets a lot of those votes but damn it would be awesome if he served 8 years only to subsequently admit he is an atheist/agnostic.
Oh well I guess I can dream.
kylebrotherton
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- Jun 22, 2007
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- 158
If you push this, you'll get into a huge, long debate. I've seen it several times.
Side 1: Many of our founders were not Christian, but deists. They specifically left all mention of theology out of the Constitution for a good reason. Jefferson spoke of a "wall of separation" between church and state in a letter he wrote. The founders were rebelling against a more theocratic government in England.
Side 2: The first amendment protects free expression of religion. The founders prayed before most of their official government meetings. Only a couple out of the many founders were merely "deists." The DOI says "endowed by their creator."
The arguments go back and forth forever, and degenerate into a question of whether the USA was founded as a "Christian nation."
My points:
- The Constitution has been interpreted to separate church and state, but never to separate religion and politics.
- Ron Paul is not a theocrat. He has a history of tolerance, and doesn't seek to force his religious views on anyone through politics.
- He strongly believes that all of our rights come from our creator. So you're gonna hear a few references to God. It's inevitable. And it's the basis for his entire worldview.
Side 1: Many of our founders were not Christian, but deists. They specifically left all mention of theology out of the Constitution for a good reason. Jefferson spoke of a "wall of separation" between church and state in a letter he wrote. The founders were rebelling against a more theocratic government in England.
Side 2: The first amendment protects free expression of religion. The founders prayed before most of their official government meetings. Only a couple out of the many founders were merely "deists." The DOI says "endowed by their creator."
The arguments go back and forth forever, and degenerate into a question of whether the USA was founded as a "Christian nation."
My points:
- The Constitution has been interpreted to separate church and state, but never to separate religion and politics.
- Ron Paul is not a theocrat. He has a history of tolerance, and doesn't seek to force his religious views on anyone through politics.
- He strongly believes that all of our rights come from our creator. So you're gonna hear a few references to God. It's inevitable. And it's the basis for his entire worldview.
Its really not. There is a separation between church and state, but not between religion and state. The state has no authority to prohibit free expression of religion at all, though recent Supreme Court cases have been doing just that. I'm agnostic and I find those sorts of actions abhorrent.
Only because they seem to selectively ignore the 9th and 10th amendments
I honestly can't remember a single time anyone has mentioned the 9th amendment on national television. Although its technically redundant (Madison didn't even want it in there for that reason), its a guide on how to interpret the rest of the constitution.
