BANKERS TELL IT LIKE IT IS

[devil21]

[MENTION=69780]econ4every1[/MENTION]
I'm attempting to teach you what they didn't teach you in school, nothing more or less. After all, if they told you that you are a securitized asset of a corporation calling itself a government, working literally to pay interest on debt that you are not responsible for, would you continue your "training" as if everything is the same? If they taught you that the capital letter name on the social security card is NOT YOU, would you continue as if everything is the same? The rabbit hole is deep but if you are truly a student of economics then you should be seeking to understand the entire system and how it operates, not just kicking around numbers.

The Chinese government hasn't sold $3.2 trillion dollars worth of goods to US consumers. The Chinese government doesn't tax its citizens in US dollars. So tell me, how did they come to possess so many US dollars. Please explain.

What makes you think they haven't? According to this link, Walmart alone has accounted for approx $3T in US domestic sales between 2008 and 2018 alone.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/269403/net-sales-of-walmart-worldwide-by-division/

If you add in Target, Dollar stores, online, Alibaba, etc it's not only possible but highly probable that Chinese sales to Americans has far exceeded $3.2T.

 

[econ4every1]

@econ4every1
I'm attempting to teach you what they didn't teach you in school

First, stop with this nonsense. I went to school in the 1980's and 90's and studied technical drawing and design.

What makes you think they haven't? According to this link, Walmart alone has accounted for approx $3T in US domestic sales between 2008 and 2018 alone.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/269403/net-sales-of-walmart-worldwide-by-division/

If you add in Target, Dollar stores, online, Alibaba, etc it's not only possible but highly probable that Chinese sales to Americans has far exceeded $3.2T.

What on earth does that have to do with my question?

The Chinese government hasn't sold $3.2 trillion dollars worth of goods to US consumers. The Chinese government doesn't tax its citizens in US dollars. So tell me, how did they come to possess so many US dollars. Please explain.

Now I should probably rephrase that some because in the history of our trade deficit with China, $3.2 trillion only represents what the government of China has saved, not the sum total of all sales between the US consumers and the Chinese government since China began carrying a large account of US dollars. The point is that most of the dollars that transact between the US and China, most of those dollars are paid to Chinese firms, not directly to the Chinese government. Granted, some of those firms are partially owned by the government, but the majority are privately held. Yes, their system is more restrictive and a bit more convoluted, but for the point, I'm going to show you it makes no difference.

The US government owned a stake in GM for a while, but when GM sold cars in China, the US government didn't earn Chinese dollars, GM did. GM converted those dollars to US dollars by trading some or all of them in the international money markets and paid taxes, profits purchased supplies etc in US dollars....So even if you make the argument that the Chinese government owns a stake in large Chinese firms and does sell directly to the US, my point is that the Chinese government does not accept the profits made in US dollars. They have to be converted to Renminbi before the government will accept them, just like the US government.

Thus, firms in China that earn US dollars need to exchange (at least some) US dollars for Renminbi on FOREX to pay workers, pay taxes and buy supplies etc in China.

Would you agree or disagree?

Thus, my question still stands. How did the government of China come to possess $3.2 trillion US dollars? Money they use to buy US Treasuries.

 

[devil21]

First, stop with this nonsense. I went to school in the 1980's and 90's and studied technical drawing and design.

So, iow, your knowledge of econ is only as far as what you've learned on your own. OK. Perhaps others have a deeper understanding of more than moving numbers around. There are legal portions, historical portions, esoteric portions and others that you haven't studied. I'm just trying to help you with other components that you haven't covered.

What on earth does that have to do with my question?



Now I should probably rephrase that some because in the history of our trade deficit with China, $3.2 trillion only represents what the government of China has saved, not the sum total of all sales between the US consumers and the Chinese government since China began carrying a large account of US dollars. The point is that most of the dollars that transact between the US and China, most of those dollars are paid to Chinese firms, not directly to the Chinese government. Granted, some of those firms are partially owned by the government, but the majority are privately held. Yes, their system is more restrictive and a bit more convoluted, but for the point, I'm going to show you it makes no difference.

The US government owned a stake in GM for a while, but when GM sold cars in China, the US government didn't earn Chinese dollars, GM did. GM converted those dollars to US dollars by trading some or all of them in the international money markets and paid taxes, profits purchased supplies etc in US dollars....So even if you make the argument that the Chinese government owns a stake in large Chinese firms and does sell directly to the US, my point is that the Chinese government does not accept the profits made in US dollars. They have to be converted to Renminbi before the government will accept them, just like the US government.

Thus, firms in China that earn US dollars need to exchange (at least some) US dollars for Renminbi on FOREX to pay workers, pay taxes and buy supplies etc in China.

Would you agree or disagree?

Thus, my question still stands. How did the government of China come to possess $3.2 trillion US dollars? Money they use to buy US Treasuries.

I'm not clear on why you're talking about the origins of Chinese dollar holdings since I skip most of your long posts and I'm not sure why they're on a thread about banker's quotes in the first place or what point you're trying to make. I'm bored of trying to help you understand parts of the puzzle that you clearly have no interest in so moving on to another thread.

 

[econ4every1]

I'm not clear on why you're talking about the origins of Chinese dollar holdings since I skip most of your long posts and I'm not sure why they're on a thread about banker's quotes in the first place or what point you're trying to make.

You like asking questions but bail when asked to answer them.

I'm bored of trying to help you understand parts of the puzzle that you clearly have no interest in so moving on to another thread.

So the US "borrows" US Dollars from the government of China, and you're not just a little bit curious where they get them?

Fine, move on, but I will keep reminding you of how you feined boredom to keep to keep from having to come to the realization that you aren't quite as smart as you think.

No problem. Move on.
[MENTION=12430]acptulsa[/MENTION] - What about you, you want to give it a shot or will you make up some excuse?

Respectfully,

E4E1

 

[econ4every1]

I'm not clear on why you're talking about the origins of Chinese dollar holdings since I skip most of your long posts and I'm not sure why they're on a thread about banker's quotes in the first place or what point you're trying to make.

Here, let me expand a bit on this.

Do you believe that China could decide to stop purchasing US debt (as is speculated on by those that speculate on the weakness of fiat).

If so, do you know what the consequences would be for the US and China?

Understanding why the Chinese government holds US dollars in the first place and how they acquired them will help you understand the relationship between the US and China with respect to purchasing US treasuries and why it's extremely unlikely to happen as long as China is a Net exporter and the US is a net importer.

Respectfully,

E4E1

 

[Zippyjuan]

Just a note: "Foreign held US Treasury notes" do not just include notes held by the governments of that country. It includes all holders- individuals, banks, investment firms, retirement funds, the government.

http://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

 

[econ4every1]

Just a note: "Foreign held US Treasury notes" do not just include notes held by the governments of that country. It includes all holders- individuals, banks, investment firms, retirement funds, the government.

http://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

Of course, but the government does have a sizeable position.