Baldwin Or Barr - Poll

Which one?

  • Chuck Baldwin

    Votes: 138 47.6%
  • Bob Barr

    Votes: 152 52.4%

  • Total voters
    290
Yes I made that point before and was accused of bashing Baldwin who I like a lot. He just doesn't have the visibility that Bob Barr will have. I actually learned something from the Ron Paul campaign.
 
How's Baldwin doing on national media appearances?

We've seen Barr on Colbert, Glenn Beck, and Bloomberg at the very least in the last two weeks.

Not much. Baldwin likes to talk about kooky things like the federal reserve, sound money, national sovereignty, getting rid of the Department of Education, etc. Basically the same reasons the media ignored Ron Paul.
 
Believe it or not, people who ACTUALLY vote in elections, you know, the ones who are more than 0.5% of the population, which is the amount the LP would continue to get, were they to continue ideologically "pure", anarcho-capitalist candidates that don't care about reaching more people, do care about ACTUAL EXPERIENCE when considering who to vote for.

It matters when trying to sell new people on the candidates. You have much more credibility when you say this person has been in the House of Representatives and he's seen what's happened from the inside, vs. this guy has no real qualifications to be president. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SELL THE IDEAS TO PEOPLE THAT DON'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME HARPING ABOUT THE FINER POINTS OF IDEOLOGY. This is the reason why good marketers can make millions while good engineers can sit in grey cubicles their entire lives. You have to know how to present your product in terms that people actually want to hear about.

Yeah, but you know, the people who typically VOTE in elections, especially those kooky crazy right-wing evangelical types -- they seem to also care about something called CHARACTER. You know, the kind that you don't have when you have affairs, get married and divorced and remarried multiple times... those kind of things.

Of, and as far as the "experience" thing goes... being in Congress (as opposed to the Senate) well, Congressmen just aren't seen as cutting it (sorry Ron, sorry Bob). Because the last time someone was elected President whose former highest elected office was Congressman was exactly... never (oops).

Instead, when voting someone in as President, most people actually prefer to vote for someone with some administrative experience (Congressmen don't get much of that -- but Governors, businesspeople, etc... they do).


And in the end, when it comes down to the kind of people who are going to "waste their vote" on third party candidates (in order to make a statement, because they obviously know these guys aren't going to win) -- they tend to think having principles and sticking to them is kind of important too, as opposed to the kind of candidates who pander and change their colors (or parties) to suit their career ambitions. You have to have a product that is believable, not one where you just slapped a "new, improved, now non-toxic" label onto the box.

Oh, and they don't trust people who wear mustaches (or beards)... and that especially applies to those little "Hitler-style" mustaches.

But of course, being a real marketer you would already know that.
 
Of, and as far as the "experience" thing goes... being in Congress (as opposed to the Senate) well, Congressmen just aren't seen as cutting it (sorry Ron, sorry Bob). Because the last time someone was elected President whose former highest elected office was Congressman was exactly... never (oops).

Here are some (not all):

Abraham Lincoln and James Madison's highest elective office was congressman. Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush's highest office prior to winning the vice presidency was congressman. Eisenhower held no previous elective office.
 
Here are some (not all):

Abraham Lincoln and James Madison's highest elective office was congressman. Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush's highest office prior to winning the vice presidency was congressman. Eisenhower held no previous elective office.

I should have qualified that as held a higher office in "modern times" -- nowadays, people are not elected as President when previous highest office was Congressman... but as Lincoln is the only REAL exception to that (others you cited are dealt with below), and his situation was rather unique... well let's go ahead:

GHW Bush failed in seeking the nomination for P and would almost certainly have lost against Carter (Reagan was a Governor and therefore a Washington "outsider" which equals or trumps other choices); when Bush ran in 1988 it was as a sitting Vice President and Reagan's heir (and most would say he was actually elected to serve "Reagan's 3rd term," rather than his own).

Gerald Ford NEVER won an election to be President (nor VP even), he was appointed to both positions.

Nixon, as you cited, was Vice President in a previous administration (under Eisenhower). His election was mainly due to the disarray and disaster of the Democrats after LBJ and the assassination of RFK left them with Humphery (who no one really liked... but he was the sitting VP so the party didn't have much for other choices).

Eisenhower was a successful, touted, publicly famous, and well-respected GENERAL... and THAT seems to trump elected office in the decade or two immediately following a war.

James Madison, while true that his highest elected office previously had been as Congressman, he was WIDELY known for other things -- mainly as the "Father of the Constitution" (which made him rather unique) -- and he had most recently served as Secretary of State to the Jefferson administration, a significantly public "administrative" office, and was Jefferson's anointed and designated "heir" and by 1808 the Federalist party was way down in "dying" minority status (indeed, The Federalists never won the Presidency after John Adams, who arguable won mainly as a Founding Father, Washington's VP and a kind of 3rd term of Washington -- promising to keep the Washington cabinet intact).

Abraham Lincoln's case was VERY unique in that he won with only 40% of the popular vote -- mainly because his opposition (and indeed the entire country) was so splintered along regional lines (the Dems had "Northern" and "Southern" candidates -- with a fourth party thrown in for good measure) Lincoln just happened to be the candidate from the largest "region" which put him over the top in the electoral college. The regional splits were SO SEVERE, that several states actually seceded BEFORE he took office. Also of note -- at the time he was a Congressman, the House had only 230..231 reps. (BTW, and Lincoln served only one term in the US Congress, while he had been a state assembly man in Illinois back then it was a part-time job... he was known more for his work as a lawyer and an orator than as a Congressman).



So, unless you think Barr has some unique electoral advantage (is the country split along regional lines? If so, does Barr "own" the biggest region?) or perhaps status as one of the founding fathers of the nation, or an important administrative position like Madison (does being a regional Anti-Drug Czar help? Maybe the king of the DOMA?) then... well, his work in Congress as one of 435 people isn't all that impressive or notable, is it?

(Similar limitations were another part of what Ron Paul faced as well, and merely another "justification" for why most of the media never took his candidacy seriously... if he wanted to SERIOUSLY run for President, he needed to have served as a Senator, or preferably a State Governor.)
 
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Indeed. It's all about getting the message out to the most people.

That's just it... Most people are going to to reject the message (from Barr) because they'll see him as untrustworthy.

It's all about TRUST... if you're going to get anyone new to vote 3rd party, the main reason will be is because they don't trust the other guys/parties.
 
That's just it... Most people are going to to reject the message (from Barr) because they'll see him as untrustworthy.

It's all about TRUST... if you're going to get anyone new to vote 3rd party, the main reason will be is because they don't trust the other guys/parties.

Part of the trust issue is confidence in one's ability to be an office holder, based on prior background. Barr is likely to elicit more trust simply for being a past congressman, vs. Baldwin being a pastor. What will really be interesting is to see whether Baldwin will gain more votes than usual for a CP candidate, based on Paul reovolution support, and more importantly Anita Andrews' campaign strategies (where the candidate does not lead with hardcore positions and rhetoric, to get more regular votes). If Baldwin matches or exceeds Barr's numbers in November (despite the CP being on the ballot in only hald the states) it will be a sign her approach should have been used by Paul HQ.
 
Really? Bob Barr is already polling 6% nationally. People are jumping on his campaign every day. He will gain more ground..of course, vote for who you want to...but Bob Barr is definately going to make more ground than Baldwin. Oh, I heard Bob Barr talking about the fed, non interventionism, income tax etc...you know, libertarian values like the Constitution.
 
[RE Mustache]
Wow.

You're talking Marketing... and how Bob Barr will be such a perfectly "appealing" candidate for the public... Well, marketing would say "shave the 'stache!" because people in modern America don't trust men with facial hair (or long hair, or pony tails, etc). This isn't the 17th or 18th century.

http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2008/04/never-trust-man-with-mustache.html

Is it a ridiculous "bias"... YUP, it is... call it "hairism" or "imagism" or whatever. But it is factual reality.



Oh, and the comment about the particular "style" of Bob Barr's mustache came from a female friend of mine when she first saw his photo -- she said, "I don't trust him... he has a mustache just like [that German dictator guy]." I said "Whoa, WTF are you talking about? They're not the same at all!" But she responded that it was just the "image" that had flashed into her head, first impression, gut reaction, call it what you will. And I doubt she is the only one.)


BTW, Personally I'm not sure I trust men WITHOUT facial hair (I've always worn a full beard, and never saw the point in shaving... seems "fake" to me -- but I also know that on that issue, mine is a very minority opinion).
 
Part of the trust issue is confidence in one's ability to be an office holder, based on prior background. Barr is likely to elicit more trust simply for being a past congressman, vs. Baldwin being a pastor. What will really be interesting is to see whether Baldwin will gain more votes than usual for a CP candidate, based on Paul reovolution support, and more importantly Anita Andrews' campaign strategies (where the candidate does not lead with hardcore positions and rhetoric, to get more regular votes). If Baldwin matches or exceeds Barr's numbers in November (despite the CP being on the ballot in only hald the states) it will be a sign her approach should have been used by Paul HQ.

But the public wants experience from OUTSIDE the Beltway... that is the reason why in general elections, they TEND to elect Governors versus Senators.

And they seem to almost instinctively recognize that "legislative" experience is not the same as "administrative" or "executive" experience.

So "former Congressman" really doesn't do much for anyone. (Hilary severely miscalculated... if she wanted to be President, she should have run for Governor of New York a few years ago, instead of Senator.) Spitzer knew this and it was the route he was taking -- NY Attorney General... NY Governor... President -- but he screwed up massively and destroyed his career ...for a quickie.
 
^Actually the Patriot Act destroyed Eliot Spitzer's career and really stupid prostitution law.
 
Write-in votes for Ron Paul will NOT be counted because he's not filing as a write-in candidate. If you want to send a message to the political establishment to let them know that you're fed up with sucky candidates, then vote for a legitimate candidate that's actually in the presidential race.
 
I voted for Chuck Baldwin. I liked these videos by him.

Chuck Baldwin is now the Party leader of the Constitution Party.

www.baldwin2008.com

Dr. Chuck Baldwin speaks on Illegal Immigration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07NSTzHnrUE&feature=related

Dr. Chuck Baldwin on the Alex Jones Show Uploaded May 22nd, 2008
Part 1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2UItJAe_wWQ
Part 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iP3RsacOxC8&feature=related

Chuck Baldwin endorsing Ron Paul 5 months ago. Duration 30 seconds.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FkkV5_88WfE

He is even in favor of a new 9/11 Investigation!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCun2nzZ17k
 
Alex Jones DOES NOT SUPPORT BOB BARR! Alex Jones supports Dr. Chuck Baldwin. At the 8 minute mark of the following video/radio interview he states the following.

"Here is another point that I want to throw in just briefly. I am not going to be supporting Libertarian Presidential Candidate CIA officer pro drug war, pro gun control votes, he then acts like he's a good guy on the NRA board Bob Barr. He is just there to Neutralize and make sure that party goes no where. And I can say that authoritatively. I wouldn't trust Bob Barr as far as you can throw him. And I have had him on a few times. He knows full well who I am, and I just don't trust him. I trust you! So Ron Paul better put his support behind you, once he's out of it after the convention." said Alex Jones.

"I was with Ron Paul just last week in Washington. We had a good talk. He is very supportive of our campaign. He and I have been friends for a long time and I am glad to call him my friend", replied Chuck Baldwin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3RsacOxC8
 
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Sorry to hear that..I don't quite trust Alex Jones myself..lol..I've heard his show is funded by who? the cia..shhhhhhh...TONES
 
Sorry to hear that..I don't quite trust Alex Jones myself..lol..I've heard his show is funded by who? the cia..shhhhhhh...TONES

With Alex Jones, he gives his sources of where to find the information he's talking about. If there's a point you think he's inaccurate about, find the source he gives and check it out yourself. No one should just blindly believe the things they are told.
 
Baldwin Understands the Constitution and Has spoken out against Nafta, Cafta, Nau NWO and such. He even opposed Bush from the start. He despises Elitists and whats freedom. And to ALL you who say he is a theocrat, Baldwin perfectly respects freedom of religion and does not like use of force aginst anything.

If not RP, Baldwin ALL the way!
 
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