Atheism Denies Freedom Of Thought, And Therefore Freedom Itself

[Sola_Fide]

Romans
13 Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. (god gives Obama domain over you)[SUP]2 [/SUP]People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. [SUP]4 [/SUP]After all, they are God’s servants, and it is their duty to help you.
If you do something wrong, you ought to be afraid, because these rulers have the right to punish you. They are God’s servants who punish criminals to show how angry God is. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But you should obey the rulers because you know it is the right thing to do, and not just because of God’s anger.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]You must also pay your taxes. The authorities are God’s servants, and it is their duty to take care of these matters. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Pay all that you owe, whether it is taxes and fees or respect and honor.

You said God "told us to worship the state".

Where is state-worship in the passage you just quoted?

 

[torchbearer]

You said God "told us to worship the state".

Where is state-worship in the passage you just quoted?

the state is the group that leads us, its not a map with lines on it.
Obama is the state right now. He is the person who creates all the things you are to follow- if you don't then you are sinful. God put him in his place, who are you to question god?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Ephesians 6:1 NASB

Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.

So I guess God told us to "worship our parents" too?

Uh....no.

 

[torchbearer]

So I guess God told us to "worship our parents" too?

Uh....no.

he said he puts in place your leaders, talking about the leaders of your "state", your tribe, your judge.
if your parents are your leaders, then you shall follow their desires...
then again, he did say to obey your parents.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

 

[Sola_Fide]

the state is the group that leads us, its not a map with lines on it.
Obama is the state right now. He is the person who creates all the things you are to follow- if you don't then you are sinful. God put him in his place, who are you to question god?

With such an unthinking and biased analysis of that text, why would anyone take you seriously? As if God approves of us "worshipping Obama because He put Him there."

God ordains good leaders and bad leaders. He appointed Pharoah who oppressed His people, and then brought an ultimately good purpose out of it.

 

[torchbearer]

With such an unthinking and biased analysis of that text, why would anyone take you seriously? As if God approves of us "worshipping Obama because He put Him there."

God ordains good leaders and bad leaders. He appointed Pharoah who oppressed His people, and then brought an ultimately good purpose out of it.

don't question the word of the lord!

13 Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power.[SUP]2 [/SUP]People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. [SUP]3[/SUP]

 

[Sola_Fide]

he said he puts in place your leaders, talking about the leaders of your "state", your tribe, your judge.
if your parents are your leaders, then you shall follow their desires...
then again, he did say to obey your parents.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

1. Obey does not mean worship.

2. There are limits to obeying leaders and parents.

Acts 5:29 NASB

But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.

 

[matt0611]

don't question the word of the lord!

Obama isn't even our ruler, he is the president of the federal executive branch of our republic. He's not our King.

He doesn't even follow our own rules.

And we are not supposed to worship him no matter what. The text is quite clear on that point.

 

[torchbearer]

Obama isn't even our ruler, he is the president of the federal executive branch. He's not our King.

someone should tell him that, because he sure acts like our king.

 

[torchbearer]

1. Obey does not mean worship.

2. There are limits to obeying leaders and parents.

if you are a protestant quoting Peter, i would find that amusing.

 

[matt0611]

someone should tell him that, because he sure acts like our king.

I wish I could but he doesn't return my calls

 

[torchbearer]

I wish I could but he doesn't return my calls

I'd rather have priest/preachers as judges(the only rulers) than have "divine right" rulers.

 

[Sola_Fide]

if you are a protestant quoting Peter, i would find that amusing.

Why? Peter was an apostle.

 

[torchbearer]

Why? Peter was an apostle.

and Saul wasn't.
Peter is often the basis of Catholic doctrine as Paul is to protestant doctrine.
perhaps you haven't delved into those theological positions yet.

 

[Sola_Fide]

I'd rather have priest/preachers as judges(the only rulers) than have "divine right" rulers.

1. The point of that passage in Romans is to make it clear that God is in complete control. He has power over the rulers of the world. They are not more powerful than Him. Paul wad writing the book of Romans to the church in Rome which was undergoing heavy persecution. The passage is not a prescription for government. Why would Paul tell the Christians in Rome that it was good and preferable that their leaders persecute them? Obviously, it isn't a prescriptive passage. If you want a prescriptive passage for Biblical government, read 1st Samuel 8.

2. It is not wrong to obey our leaders, even Obama, up to a point. Christianity isn't a blueprint for violent revolution. Where Christianity touches political life, it is a blueprint for gradual peaceful change.

 

[torchbearer]

1. The point of that passage in Romans is to make it clear that God is in complete control. He has power over the rulers of the world. They are not more powerful than Him. Paul wad writing the book of Romans to the church in Rome which was undergoing heavy persecution. The passage is not a prescription for government. Why would Paul tell the Christians in Rome that it was good and preferable that their leaders persecute them? Obviously, it isn't a prescriptive passage. If you want a prescriptive passage for Biblical government, read 1st Samuel 8.

2. It is not wrong to obey our leaders, even Obama, up to a point. Christianity isn't a blueprint for violent revolution. Where Christianity touches political life, it is a blueprint for gradual peaceful change.

I love it when people try to tell me what god intended by the plain words translated from the plain words of a story someone told someone else that they heard from the guy that was with someone who was actually there.

 

[Sola_Fide]

and Saul wasn't.
Peter is often the basis of Catholic doctrine as Paul is to protestant doctrine.
perhaps you haven't delved into those theological positions yet.

Perhaps you haven't read the Bible recently. Paul was an apostle.

1 Corinthians 1:1 NASB

Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

Also, I don't know why you would say Peter is the "basis" of Catholic doctrine? Maybe you are referring to the passage in Matthew about the rock of faith. Who knows where you are getting that. Even Catholics don't say "Peter is the basis for Catholicism".

 

[Sola_Fide]

I love it when people try to tell me what god intended by the plain words translated from the plain words of a story someone told someone else that they heard from the guy that was with someone who was actually there.

Well, you've been reading your atheist websites and getting all your information from redaction criticism and you've probably never even cared to consider the Biblical viewpoint. You want to atomize the text and not see it as a divinely inspired whole.

 

[torchbearer]

Perhaps you haven't read the Bible recently. Paul was an apostle.

perhaps you are in error-
the 12 apostles:
Simon, called Peter
Andrew, his brother
James, son of Zebedee
John, his brother
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
Matthew, the tax collector
James, son of Alphaeus
Thaddeus (also called Lebbaeus)
Simon the Cananaean
Judas Iscariot

 

[torchbearer]

Well, you've been reading your atheist websites and getting all your information from redaction criticism and you've probably never even cared to consider the Biblical viewpoint. You want to atomize the text and not see it as a divinely inspired whole.

you are wrong on all counts.
i have 12 years of catholic theology, and 4 years of protestant college theological study. i come to you as someone who has seeked the truth through serious theological study.