Ashli Babbitt was armed and dangerous

They have already done that, three times.
Really? Name one please. The neighbor that attacked Rand doesn't count as there's no evidence of him being connected to BLM or Antifa and he wasn't part of a mob. The BLM protestors that surrounded Rand didn't attack him. Yes Rand said he felt scared for his life and (wrongly) claimed he was protected by a "wall of cops", but there were only 3 cops and the protestors were all the way around Rand, his wife and their companion and yet nobody even made an attempt at laying a hand on any of them nor were there any verbal threats. Some of the protestors were trying to get Rand to "say her name" for Breona Taylor, which was a sign of ignorance on their part because Rand had introduced the "Justice For Breona Taylor Act." One protestor kept asking "Why do you support Trump." Again that's an ignorant question as people can support who they want. One person tossed an empty paper cup in the direction of the Pauls and that was disrespectful but not dangerous.

Contrast that to the January 6th protestors who told the cops "We don't want you to get hurt" and then proceeded to punch the doors right next to the cops faces. What's number three? The protestor who tried to hand Rand Paul a sign when Rand first ran for senate and someone pushed the protestor to the ground and put his foot on the protestor's neck? Or are you talking about the shooting where Steve Scalise got shot? Again, lone wolf not tied to BLM or Antifa. That said, if the Steve Scalise shooter had been shot I would have been okay with that. If the neighbor who attacked Rand had been shot I would have been okay with that too. The guy with the sign seems harmless. The BLM crowd that had gathered around Rand was harmless. The crowd that was with Ashli Babbitt was not harmless and neither was she.
 
I would also make the clear and obvious point that has not yet been stated,

That if the corridor was so important to protect,

they would have stationed more than 1 person to protect it.

(Standing on other side and doing nothing, isn't "protecting" by the way, so I don't count those guards as part of their defensive strategy)
 
The area where you circled on the left, above Byrd's gun, you can see an obvious arm movement that does not belong to anyone you have yet identified. This occurs when the person you have circled walks to the left side of the corridor.

There are only 3 people including officer Byrd in the hallway. I've watched the video now multiple times and in slow motion. At one point you see the person who's in the door way move to the center of the room, then you see him move over to the left side where you are seeing two people besides officer Byrd.

ashlibabbittshooting205.jpg



ashlibabbittshooting208.jpg

There are also more movements in the back of the corridor. One person even seems to sit down for a moment. I don't think these are all the same people but it may be.
You're counting 1 person as 2 or 3.

But the number of people in that corridor isn't really that important. What's important is that they are not taking defensive postures, and besides Byrd, do not have raised weapons.

At first Officer Byrd doesn't have his pistol drawn either. At 1:39 the 3 officers in front of the door (on the side with Babbitt and the rest of the mob) leave. At 1:41 members of the mob start busting through the windows with a club an a motorcycle helmet. At 1:55 Officer Byrd reveals himself and you can CLEARLY hear someone yell "He's got a gun." He yells it 4 times. Someone else yells "He's got a gun." Only Officer Byrd is close enough to see what's really going on. In fact, you can't really tell whether the two officers on the far left have pulled there guns out or not. It's too far away to see. One of them is in a "defensive posture" the entire video because he's pressed against the left wall just like officer Byrd. At 2:12 A FULL 15 SECONDS AFTER MULTIPLE PEOPLE YELLED "HE'S GOT A GUN", Ashlii Babbitt starts crawling through the window and gets shot. She had plenty of warning and plenty of time to decide on whether or not she wanted to crawl through and decided to crawl through anyway.

Doesn't change anything regarding my point. If you let people break through barricade after barricade, you owe them a very clear warning, that breaking through the next barricade will be fatal. Regardless of who or what is behind the barricade.

No you don't. In my scenario your family wasn't in imminent danger when the thugs crashed through the gate at the gated community. They arguably weren't in imminent danger when the party itself was crashed if they weren't in the living room, though the people in the living room were. When the thugs got to your back bedroom you didn't own them a dog gone thing. The fact that the gate guard and the door guard might have been derelict in their duty to use lethal force, if they had such a duty anyway, doesn't create some magical duty for you to later give ANY warning, let alone some "specific" warning to the one jackass they tried to push through to your family after the others backed off and said "He's got a gun." I doubt @Anti Federalist would put his family in danger by hesitating to use lethal force just because the gate and door guards didn't stop the thugs either. I don't think ANYBODY on this forum would do that.

I would trust them to have the courage and composure* to calmly evacuate through the established evacuation procedures that had been already called into effect. Which was roughly 30 minutes before Ashli Babbitt was shot IIRC.
So....I showed you the screen shot of members of congress in that corridor just 2 minutes before Ashli Babbitt was shot. Where the hell are you getting "30 minutes" from? And YOU reposted the same video! Again, you're watching it drunk. At 0:10 in Rep. James P. McGovern (D Mass) is seen in the corridor with about 10 to 20 other members of congress. The camera pans away and by 0:38 the corridor is clear. By 2:12 Ashlii Babbitt climbs through the broken out window and gets shot.

(*unlike Josh Hawley who ran like a bitch)
LOL. Yeah, that's accurate.



It depends. Would I have time to issue a clear warning to that individual, without endangering myself? Just a brief 2-3 seconds to get eye contact and say "stop or I'll shoot"?

The timeline is 4 of the 5 thugs are yelling "He's got a gun" for 15 seconds and the fifth thug, for reasons only known to him, keeps coming. No sane person would convict you of anything for shooting that fifth thug under those circumstances. No way, no how.


If my house has a functioning barricade (and it was, still functioning, a barricade is intended to slow, not stop), and has multiple people behind me to assist me if needed, then yes, I believe I can afford the 2-3 seconds to avoid needlessly shooting someone who may have not heard the warning.
So "multiple people" means 3 including yourself and your facing a crowd of about 20 thugs and one's crawling through the barricade after at least two of the thugs yelled for 15 seconds "He's got a gun." Okay. If you are that restrained cool. But nobody would convict you for shooting him. I wish Daniel Penny had shown that much concern for Jordan Neely's life. Jordan was unarmed (not even a 3 inch pocket knife like Ashlii Babbitt) and Daniel had him in a "restraint" for 5 minutes before turning on his side and putting on a choke and holding it for 51 seconds after Jordan was no longer moving. Oh, and Jordan was acting alone and Daniel had help in the form of someone holding Jordan's arms so he couldn't protect his neck. Maybe if Officer Byrd had just choked Ashlii Babbitt to death the alt-right would consider him a hero too just like Daniel Penny? I'm betting the answer to that is no. I could be wrong.
 
In fact, you can't really tell whether the two officers on the far left have pulled there guns out or not. It's too far away to see. One of them is in a "defensive posture" the entire video because he's pressed against the left wall just like officer Byrd. At 2:12 A FULL 15 SECONDS AFTER MULTIPLE PEOPLE YELLED "HE'S GOT A GUN", Ashlii Babbitt starts crawling through the window and gets shot. She had plenty of warning and plenty of time to decide on whether or not she wanted to crawl through and decided to crawl through anyway.

They are literally standing in the middle of the hallway, walking back and forth in boredom.

If you want to call that "defensive posture", then I don't know what to tell you, and it's pointless to engage with anyone so hopelessly brainwashed.
 
They are literally standing in the middle of the hallway, walking back and forth in boredom.

If you want to call that "defensive posture", then I don't know what to tell you, and it's pointless to engage with anyone so hopelessly brainwashed.
:rolleyes: You're the brainwashed one in that you keep multi counting the same person. There was only ONE person moving around in the hallway and I've proven that with screenshots. And he moved to the left side next to the second officer who was in the same defensive posture (pressed against the left wall) as officer Byrd. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. Like your false claim that there as 30 minutes between congress being evacuated and Ashlii Babbitt climbing through the window when the video clearly shows there was only 2 minutes.
 
:rolleyes: You're the brainwashed one in that you keep multi counting the same person. There was only ONE person moving around in the hallway and I've proven that with screenshots.

It's not my fault you lack attention to detail to identify the others. There is provably at least one more person that you have not identified, and refuse to identify, for some reason. (the previously mentioned arm movement on the left)

And he moved to the left side next to the second officer who was in the same defensive posture (pressed against the left wall) as officer Byrd. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. Like your false claim that there as 30 minutes between congress being evacuated and Ashlii Babbitt climbing through the window when the video clearly shows there was only 2 minutes.

If a person is walking back and forth that's not a defensive posture, that's not an opinion, that is a fact.

And here is another fact, by 2:23 pm Nancy Pelosi's evacuation was well underway, and by 2:42 pm, she was relaxing at her assigned secure location outside the capitol. Ashli Babbitt was shot at 2:44 pm.

Many sources can confirm this easily but here is one:
 
It's not my fault you lack attention to detail to identify the others. There is provably at least one more person that you have not identified, and refuse to identify, for some reason. (the previously mentioned arm movement on the left)

I showed you the screenshot. The "second person" you see on the left is the person who's been moving around the entire time. I know you're enjoying your Jack Daniels on a Sunday morning but give it a rest.

If a person is walking back and forth that's not a defensive posture, that's not an opinion, that is a fact.

The person on the far left WAS in a defensive posture! So your argument hinges on "If a single person behind a barricade is not in a defensive posture then the shooting is not justified?" That's just stupid.

And here is another fact, by 2:23 pm Nancy Pelosi's evacuation was well underway, and by 2:42 pm, she was relaxing at her assigned secure location outside the capitol. Ashli Babbitt was shot at 2:44 pm.

What at all is your point on any of this? 1) From 2:23 to 2:44 isn't "30 minutes" and 2) Just because Nancy was at a secure location by 2:42 doesn't mean everybody was 3) from 2:42 to 2:44 is just TWO MINUTES 4) the purpose of the barricade was to make sure nobody ever got to said secure location. At this point you're not really even making an argument.

Many sources can confirm this easily but here is one:

Confirming a non argument is a waste of time. I'm not arguing against your irrelevant point that Nancy Pelosi was at a secure location a mere two minutes before Ashlii Babbitt was shot.
 
I showed you the screenshot. The "second person" you see on the left is the person who's been moving around the entire time. I know you're enjoying your Jack Daniels on a Sunday morning but give it a rest.

No, it is very clearly a separate and distinct person.

The arm movement happens on the left side at approximately 2:10 in the video below:

At the moment of 2:10 there are 2 people in the hallway, and a 3rd standing in the far back. (not counting Boyd)




The person on the far left WAS in a defensive posture! So your argument hinges on "If a single person behind a barricade is not in a defensive posture then the shooting is not justified?" That's just stupid.

LOL what???? First off, the arm movement that I mentioned belongs to a dude that you haven't even identified, so I don't know how you would say that a person you haven't even identified could be in a defensive posture,

and the dude that is obviously standing in the middle of the hallway, like super obviously walking back and forth, how could you possibly try to claim that's a "defensive posture"??


What at all is your point on any of this? 1) From 2:23 to 2:44 isn't "30 minutes" and 2) Just because Nancy was at a secure location by 2:42 doesn't mean everybody was 3) from 2:42 to 2:44 is just TWO MINUTES 4) the purpose of the barricade was to make sure nobody ever got to said secure location. At this point you're not really even making an argument.

It's not my fault you're incapable of critical thinking.

Nancy Pelosi went through the halls of congress, through the subway, to her destination outside the capitol, by 2:42pm at the latest (probably earlier).

She started her evacuation, no later than 2:23pm. (and probably earlier)

If you think that Congress can't fully evacuate itself within 20 minutes, you really need to contact their fire department and tell them how to do their job properly.

If there was anyone still there, it's because they had chosen to stay there. The evacuation route remained open to them at all times.
 
No, it is very clearly a separate and distinct person.

The arm movement happens on the left side at approximately 2:10 in the video below:

At the moment of 2:10 there are 2 people in the hallway, and a 3rd standing in the far back. (not counting Boyd)



So no there isn't. I've posted the screenshots multiple times. At 2:10 you can't really see anybody but Boyd because the crack in the glass is in the way. At 2:09 you can see the guy in the grey suit walk over to the second person on the left side and that second person on the left side sticks his arm out. There's not a third person on the left side until the man in the grey suit is all the way over there which can be seen at time 2:11. Those are the facts. Everything else is just you making stuff up.
LOL what???? First off, the arm movement that I mentioned belongs to a dude that you haven't even identified, so I don't know how you would say that a person you haven't even identified could be in a defensive posture,
:rolleyes: Simply being against the left wall is itself a defensive posture.
7a2efbd209a791e246b0438fad3d4cd8.jpg

and the dude that is obviously standing in the middle of the hallway, like super obviously walking back and forth, how could you possibly try to claim that's a "defensive posture"??


It's not my fault you're incapable of critical thinking.
:rolleyes: Quit drinking dude.
Nancy Pelosi went through the halls of congress, through the subway, to her destination outside the capitol, by 2:42pm at the latest (probably earlier).

She started her evacuation, no later than 2:23pm. (and probably earlier)

If you think that Congress can't fully evacuate itself within 20 minutes, you really need to contact their fire department and tell them how to do their job properly.
So now you've gone from 30 minutes to 20 minutes? :rolleyes: And there were people in the hallway less than 2 minutes before Ashley Babbitt was shot. Your "point" is irrelevant, incompetent and immaterial.
 
So no there isn't. I've posted the screenshots multiple times. At 2:10 you can't really see anybody but Boyd because the crack in the glass is in the way. At 2:09 you can see the guy in the grey suit walk over to the second person on the left side and that second person on the left side sticks his arm out. There's not a third person on the left side until the man in the grey suit is all the way over there which can be seen at time 2:11. Those are the facts. Everything else is just you making stuff up.

Okay then so you admit there are 3 people in the hallway? You originally said there were 2. (Other than Boyd)

:rolleyes: Simply being against the left wall is itself a defensive posture.
7a2efbd209a791e246b0438fad3d4cd8.jpg


:rolleyes: Quit drinking dude.

You can barely even see the guy, anything about that dude's posture is merely speculation.

What is not speculation, is the dude that is walking around the middle of the hallway. Looks like he's bored. Not even the biggest moron would call that dude's posture "defensive". (feel free to prove me wrong on that count, though)


So now you've gone from 30 minutes to 20 minutes? :rolleyes:

I can prove 20 minutes. But I know it was a lot closer to 30 minutes because I watched the event live and a lot of the footage that they showed live is not available for me to provide you with. In large part because I don't think they even formally admit that they use the subway as an evacuation procedure. One of the people that was filming live was even explicitly told this, something to the effect of "you're not allowed to film here, the subway and evacuation procedures are confidential".


And there were people in the hallway less than 2 minutes before Ashley Babbitt was shot. Your "point" is irrelevant, incompetent and immaterial.

Anyone who was still there was there because they wanted to be there.

The evacuation route remained open at all times, and the call had been given at least 20 minutes earlier.
 
Correction, the left side arm dude is provably not defensive posture either,

He is facing away from the barricade. Doesn't even care enough to look in that direction.
 
Having a knife doesn't make you armed. Having something like that just makes sure you don't get graped when you are a woman in a huge crowd of men that are strangers.

When the Founders wrote the 2nd amendment the right to keep and bear arms it had nothing to do with a knife.

They werent trying to overthrow the government using a 3 inch knife.

Everyone knows you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Ashley Babbit wasn't retarded.
 
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Really? Name one please.

The leftist Bernie Bro who shot up the GOP baseball team while Rand was practicing.

The leftist neighbor who attacked him out of nowhere, puncturing a lung that almost killed him.

The leftist Tran-Tifa mob that surrounded him and Kelly in DC and were threatening him.

I will cede one point: I don't recall many actual "black lives" in that mob in DC. As I recall, they were mostly White communists.

The BLM crowd that had gathered around Rand was harmless.

That's not how Rand saw it:

“It was horrific,” Paul said in an interview with Fox News. “They’re attempting to push the police over to get to me, so at one point they push a policeman backwards, he stumbles and he’s trying to catch his balance and I catch the back of his flak jacket to stabilize him to make sure he’s OK because he’s our defense.

“If he’s down, the mob’s loose on us,” said Paul. The attacks occurred after midnight as BLM demonstrators threatened multiple RNC attendees and provoked brawls with police officers. A crowd of BLM assailants swarmed D.C. police when they tried to make an arrest.

 
The crowd that was with Ashli Babbitt was not harmless and neither was she.

I no longer care.

Let the Communists launch a counter offensive, if this has so aggrieved them.

The faster this mess comes to blows, the faster it can all be settled, once and for all.

During the US Revolution, combatants on both sides were often exchanged or released, or imprisoned and hung, sometimes just based on a matter of days between hostilities in different theaters.

The difference between a traitor and a patriot is decided by history.

January 6 showed the citizens of this country just how weak their so called "ruling class" actually is.

They have my support and gratitude for that, and always will.
 
Byrd would have needed x-ray vision to see the knife considering it was in her pocket when she was shot
 
The leftist Bernie Bro who shot up the GOP baseball team while Rand was practicing.

The leftist neighbor who attacked him out of nowhere, puncturing a lung that almost killed him.

The leftist Tran-Tifa mob that surrounded him and Kelly in DC and were threatening him.

I will cede one point: I don't recall many actual "black lives" in that mob in DC. As I recall, they were mostly White communists.

Yeah....I went through all of those examples and explained why I don't see them as the same. Lone wolves != mob violence. Also the DC "mob" was mostly black people.
That's not how Rand saw it:



Well thank God for video. Compare and contrast. On January 6th the crowd with Ashli Babbitt was punching the door right next to the cops heads and once the cops left started smashing the windows. The crowd around Rand was mostly shouting "Say her name" and asking "Why do you support Trump." Things got a little bumpy the way back to the hotel, but nobody threw hands at Rand or at any of the cops like the Jan 6 crowd did. At about Ashlii Babbitt had to crawl through a barracade to get try to get to the congressmen who were in the hallway just 2 minutes prior. There were protestors all around Rand and yet nobody laid a hand on him. At about 8 minutes in somebody asked Rand "who was on Epstein's Island." Of course Rand wouldn't know that.



But hey, maybe the white January 6th protestors felt they had more "white priviledge" to act like they were going to punch cops than the BLM protestors surrounding Rand?
 
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