As employers push efficiency, the daily grind wears down workers

[MRK]

I find it interesting that the general consensus here is that employers will try to take advantage of you at almost any opportunity, yet many people on this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ci-I-am-at-a-crossroads&highlight=gunsmithing) suggested the original poster should go the BA route instead of learning a trade like gunsmithing because it would make you a better candidate for employment.

Just what is it exactly you are missing out on as an employee again?

 

[Matt Collins]

So you consistently let the roadies and setup crew trick you into doing their job?

No, sometimes there aren't enough of them to go around. Sometimes things are late and we have to catch up. Sometimes the crew is lazy, incompetent, or can't speak the language. Sometimes I just don't have time to wait on them. Sometimes I have to do things myself because there is no crew, especially on the small gigs.

In the real world, often times a good crew is rare, which means I have to pitch in on the labor on top of the real engineering stuff.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I've watched it happen, in the exact circumstances I described. Have you ever had a repetitive strain injury? Ever work for a japanese transplant company, heavy on kaizan, as we are talking about? Working too hard, too fast, with too much weight, too much repetition, will absolutely destroy your joints. I know a lot of people who had surgery as a result, and none of them would want surgery if they didn't need it. Nor would the company pay for it if they didn't see it as part of their costs. The bold part is important. They aren't paying for unneeded surgeries and giving hobbled people, who don't eat well, new jobs when they refuse to perform their current jobs. It's a business strategy.

Oh, believe me. I've had TONS of repetitive strain injury. More than most people, but I always recovered and my joints were just as good as before. I stand by what I said. Most injuries are preventable, and they are almost always reparable. Many people get tricked into having surgery when they don't need it because they don't know how to properly take care of themselves. The problem is that much of this stuff isn't mainstream. A tendon injury can seem irreparable if all you do is rest, but believe me there are certain methods, which I have used successfuly, to treat any time of repetitive strain injury. I've had tendon strains, muscle strains, stress fractures, and various other knots and strains, but I always recovered. Heavy weight usually isn't a problem unless you are a body builder lifting massive weights, in which case you can actually TEAR a muscle. Now THAT is a serious injury. It will recover, but it will take a long ass time.

No employer I know of ever checked people's lifestyles before hiring. That's because almost everyone lives and eats poorly. Screening workers for good health habits would take way too much effort for way too little gains.

Out of curiosity, have you ever run 90 miles per week, twice a day? I didn't think so. I had teammates who ran 120 miles per week. I couldn't handle that load with out repeatedly breaking down, but some can. Either way, you can almost always recover given enough time. The company doesn't want to give you that time, though, so you have to get surgery so you can keep right on slavin'. Surgery is what makes your joints weak and does irreparable long-term harm. You think it's the work that's destroying your joints, but it's actually the process of working and opting for surgery instead of recovery that results in the long-term weakening of your cartilage. The problem is that nobody really knows how to recover. Recovery, when done right, actually promotes long-term strengthening.

 

[angelatc]

I have seen physical labor. I watched while standing at a train platform a crew of guys replace track and tie rods. It was maybe 80 degrees out, not too hot. These guys where HUGE. And they busted their asses, in 80 degree weather. And they were mostly white. And I thought to myself "White, I guess union and good pay." Then I thought, hell even at $100hr, I would run from this job. Physical labor sucks, at least for me. Would have ripped my back out in an hour.

I felt that way about the roofers in Florida. It would be 90 degrees, and they'd be up on the roof spreading hot tar around. I'd starve if I had to do that.

 

[angelatc]

Have you ever worked for one?

It's definitely true that companies generally treat people like commodities, manipulate them on a personal level, and only give you a raise when you have a better offer on the table.

That's actually not true at all. Well, not in all cases. But employees are commodities.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Out of curiosity, have you ever run 90 miles per week, twice a day? I didn't think so.

Why ask if you knew the answer? Running is a very natural motion. It's what we naturally do. Putting two horns in an izuzu, putting on two headlights, securing a steering wheel, then pounding on a few interior panels, 60 times per hour, 10 hours a day, 5 days a week... for years... it is full of very unnatural motions you can't even compare to running... running is something we are built for.

Why do you think these employers pay for these surgeries, then give people paid time off, and give them a different, often easier job when they get back?

Do you think these businesses are stupid and making losses by paying for idiot behavior and unneeded surgeries?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Why ask if you knew the answer? Running is a very natural motion. It's what we naturally do. Putting two horns in an izuzu, putting on two headlights, securing a steering wheel, then pounding on a few interior panels, 60 times per hour, 10 hours a day, 5 days a week... for years... it is full of very unnatural motions you can't even compare to running... running is something we are built for.

Why do you think these employers pay for these surgeries, then give people paid time off, and give them a different, often easier job when they get back?

Do you think these businesses are stupid and making losses by paying for idiot behavior and unneeded surgeries?

I already told you most people don't even know how to recover, so I'm not surprised if neither the business nor the employee knows what to do in such instances. Surgery is just the easy way out. It takes a lot less effort for a business to get someone surgery than to teach them proper healing techniques and life habits. That way, the worker can keep working relatively soon after surgery until they are broken and thrown out like a used rag. It's not in their interest to teach someone the proper way to handle the kind of work they're doing.

As for unnatural motions, point taken, but people tell me that because I pounded my knees years I am going to be hobbling around in old age, but I've never had surgery and I can guarantee you that I'll be better off than most people in old age because I knew how to take care of myself. Just curious, though, what kind of "unnatural motions" are involved in putting on horns, headlights, and steering wheels in a car?

 

[Mike4Freedom]

deleted

 

[Origanalist]

I have been an employee at UPS for 13 years. I load trucks at night full time. It does beat you up. You are right about recovery, the problem is if you get tendinitus or something along those lines, you cannot get the time off to heal. Also, the company always says "Wear and tear" does not exist. I eat extremely healthy. I drink raw milk, mostly raw foods (except raw meat) I get plenty of the good fats (coconut, olive oil, hemp oil) and whatnot. I still have aches and pains that can get pretty bad sometimes and I am only 32. Granted, I do not take aspirin or anything and will refuse to do so but getting time off to heal is not an option. I usually notice after a vacation that my pains go away and return again after a few weeks. I have tendinitus in my elbows and a decent amount of lower back pain. Our pension plan is going into the shitter and we have no 401k matching. We have great medical benefits that I do not use because standard medicine is aweful. So that 32 dollar hour wage is what I need so I can retire younger my investing on my own and hopefully all my body can fully heal if I retire young enough.

Also, around 6 years ago before the 08 crash happened on average an employee would load 3 - 4 trucks a night, now you are working up front for around an hour then you go back to your area and have to load 6 trucks and each truck has 50% more stops on them. So we are doing twice as much work and I tell you what when top rate was 24 dollars an hour and we did 3 - 4 trucks, that 24 dollars back then bought a lot more stuff then 32 dollars does today doing twice as much work as well.

Suck it up and learn how to take care of yourself. You're just not living right.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I already told you most people don't even know how to recover, so I'm not surprised if neither the business nor the employee knows what to do in such instances. Surgery is just the easy way out. It takes a lot less effort for a business to get someone surgery than to teach them proper healing techniques and life habits. That way, the worker can keep working relatively soon after surgery until they are broken and thrown out like a used rag. It's not in their interest to teach someone the proper way to handle the kind of work they're doing.

As for unnatural motions, point taken, but people tell me that because I pounded my knees years I am going to be hobbling around in old age, but I've never had surgery and I can guarantee you that I'll be better off than most people in old age because I knew how to take care of myself. Just curious, though, what kind of "unnatural motions" are involved in putting on horns, headlights, and steering wheels in a car?

Sorry, I just don't have more information I can help with. Apparently, you have to experience it, for you to believe it. You can try to get a job at a japanese auto plant, or supplier. Short of that, I've already said what I can say. I'll just say once more, clearly. They aren't stupid. They have a working business model. I find it immoral, but not illegal. It may be unethical in the sense that new employees don't understand what they are getting themselves into in a lot of cases. They have doctors on site, on staff, full time to deal with "injuries" and get people back to work as fast as possible. They know what they are doing. You've probably never heard of anything like it.

 

[Mike4Freedom]

Suck it up and learn how to take care of yourself. You're just not living right.

Umm, you must not have read the middle of the first paragraph. I am 100% certain my diet is far superior to yours.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Suck it up and learn how to take care of yourself. You're just not living right.

Now you're trolling. lol

UPS is pretty bad. Their good point is that the load and unload usually only work 4 hours per day. Or they used to, anyway.

 

[Origanalist]

Umm, you must not have read the middle of the first paragraph. I am 100% certain my diet is far superior to yours.

No way, you can't top whiskey and beer.

 

[Mike4Freedom]

deleted

 

[Anti Federalist]

Stop picking on Collins.

That chiseled physique did not make itself.

I have one of those myself...half round.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Suck it up and learn how to take care of yourself. You're just not living right.

Lol. You need the /s though. Subtle humor is difficult to relay on the intertubes.

 

[MelissaWV]

Oh, believe me. I've had TONS of repetitive strain injury. More than most people, but I always recovered and my joints were just as good as before. I stand by what I said. Most injuries are preventable, and they are almost always reparable. Many people get tricked into having surgery when they don't need it because they don't know how to properly take care of themselves. The problem is that much of this stuff isn't mainstream. A tendon injury can seem irreparable if all you do is rest, but believe me there are certain methods, which I have used successfuly, to treat any time of repetitive strain injury. I've had tendon strains, muscle strains, stress fractures, and various other knots and strains, but I always recovered. Heavy weight usually isn't a problem unless you are a body builder lifting massive weights, in which case you can actually TEAR a muscle. Now THAT is a serious injury. It will recover, but it will take a long ass time.

No employer I know of ever checked people's lifestyles before hiring. That's because almost everyone lives and eats poorly. Screening workers for good health habits would take way too much effort for way too little gains.

Out of curiosity, have you ever run 90 miles per week, twice a day? I didn't think so. I had teammates who ran 120 miles per week. I couldn't handle that load with out repeatedly breaking down, but some can. Either way, you can almost always recover given enough time. The company doesn't want to give you that time, though, so you have to get surgery so you can keep right on slavin'. Surgery is what makes your joints weak and does irreparable long-term harm. You think it's the work that's destroying your joints, but it's actually the process of working and opting for surgery instead of recovery that results in the long-term weakening of your cartilage. The problem is that nobody really knows how to recover. Recovery, when done right, actually promotes long-term strengthening.

You've said it yourself: given a perfect recovery period, appropriate medical care, a healthy lifestyle (which also includes getting enough rest, proper diet, a good amount of motion besides the ones you repeat all day at work, and a means to resolve stress), you can recover from joint issues.

And injuries that go largely undiagnosed (my wrist hurts but I don't know why) tend to just get worse over time, especially if the action that contributed to the original injury is repeated over and over and over and over and over and over again.

So how many people do you think have access to appropriate medical care, are able to have a healthy lifestyle (if they are working as often as the examples in this thread suggest, plus a commute, for the amount of pay described), and despite being hourly are able to take off the days or weeks (or months depending on the joint) to heal properly, not to mention getting the physical therapy to assist with the healing process?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

No, sometimes there aren't enough of them to go around. Sometimes things are late and we have to catch up. Sometimes the crew is lazy, incompetent, or can't speak the language. Sometimes I just don't have time to wait on them. Sometimes I have to do things myself because there is no crew, especially on the small gigs.

In the real world, often times a good crew is rare, which means I have to pitch in on the labor on top of the real engineering stuff.

Okay, so you have unique circumstances. I personally have seen plenty of good crews (and was on one once when I was a student). You job still isn't inherently labor-intensive. Perhaps if you start working higher class gigs (jazz, classical, etc) you won't have these sort of problems.

 

[amy31416]

You've never worked in the concert industry have you?

Well that's because you don't know what you're talking about and are making assumptions.

If you consider that hard labor, you haven't worked in jobs that actually require it. I know because I've done it.

By the way, constantly saying "you don't know what you're talking about" is hardly making a case for yourself.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Umm, you must not have read the middle of the first paragraph. I am 100% certain my diet is far superior to yours.

Why don't you take asprin? When I get aches, strains, etc from my workouts I use it, even though other guys I know use stronger anti-inflamation stuff like ibuprofen. Combined with an ice pack regamine, asprin works fine for me.