Armed Neighborhood Fortress called Citadel

[Aeroneous]

"intends to purchase 2,000 to 3,000 acres"

"community will comprise of 3,500 to 7,000 families"

Edit: 3000 acres for ~5000 families. Families. Not people, families. Housing area, roadways, utilities deducted from that amount.
Sounds cramped.

Fortress doesn't work if it starves.

I don't know... even if you consider 2000 acres with 7000 families that's .285 acres per family. It sounds like this citadel would be the type to want limited government within their community and limited property for that government. Even if you reserved 600 of those 2000 acres for infrastructure, that's still .2 acres per family. Plenty of cities operate on much smaller land per unit.

 

[Victor Grey]

I don't know... even if you consider 2000 acres with 7000 families that's .285 acres per family. It sounds like this citadel would be the type to want limited government within their community and limited property for that government. Even if you reserved 600 of those 2000 acres for infrastructure, that's still .2 acres per family. Plenty of cities operate on much smaller land per unit.

Cities, cites. That's the word, not fortress. City, starves in 2 or 3 weeks. That isn't a fortress. That is merely another city, with people residing in it. Those are everywhere.

They ever wanted to declare any sort of autonomy, which the whole reason they claim they want to do the project, the feds would merely have to roadblock it in for around 10 days with about 150 leo, and they'd all come out for a free cup of ramen noodles and bottle of drinking water.

They want to do a housing project, they can set up apartments and have twice that concentration of people.
That isn't a fortress for declaring independent self-rule.

 

[Adrock]

The walls set off major alarm bells for me.

 

[matt0611]

I'm out without reading farther..............

From their website:

The Citadel is not profit-driven. The Citadel is Liberty-driven: specifically Thomas Jefferson's Rightful Liberty.

Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles.

My interest is increasing.

 

[Aeroneous]

Cities, cites. That's the word, not fortress. City, starves in 2 or 3 weeks. That isn't a fortress. That is merely another city, with people residing in it. Those are everywhere.

They ever wanted to declare any sort of autonomy, which the whole reason they claim they want to do the project, the feds would merely have to roadblock it in for around 10 days with about 150 leo, and they'd all come out for a free cup of ramen noodles and bottle of drinking water.

They want to do a housing project, they can set up apartments and have twice that concentration of people.
That isn't a fortress for declaring independent self-rule.

You've probably seen that before, but my point is that I think it could be done on the land they're proposing. I'm sure when they get into more of the specifics, the land amount will probably go toward the higher end and the family number will probably go toward the lower end.

 

[familydog]

The phrase "American exceptionalism" scares me. What does that even mean in context of this citadel?

The walls? I am reminded of Ron Paul saying that walls along a border can and will be used to keep people in as much as keep people out.

 

[Demigod]

If they are smart they would build it by the sea with a port.Everything else would have no point.

 

[Lucille]

Check out what comes with the house:

Every Citadel home will come with a 2,500 gallon water tank, a one year supply of food for either 1 or 2 adults, 1 or 2 AR15-variant rifles and 1,000 rounds of ammunition per rifle, a generator, a composting toilet, a vault, a protective Safe Room. If you are bringing more than 2 adults, additional ARs, ammunition and food will be added for a tiny fee. Remember, your home requires zero down payment, zero interest, no background check and no credit check... and your Lease is for Life.

If this doesn't bring the feds to the gate, nothing will:

Additionally, we plan on forming our own bank that will issue Citadel coins in silver and gold.

 

[osan]

Waco II?

Depends on how things evolve. If they get 7000 FAMILIES signed on, which would surprise me (God may I be surprised) and assuming only 2 adults per family, that makes a community of 14,000 like-minded adults. That is about 100 times the size of the Branch Davidian population and would be a significantly bigger bite for "them" to take in order to remove them from the roles of the living as they did in Waco.

I note they make no insane religious requirements, which speaks to their credit and gives "them" one less pretext for interference... not that they really give a damn about such things anymore. For my money, however, 3000 acres for 7000 families is very congested - but then, I live on a farm and am surrounded by tens of thousands of mostly empty acres, save for my neighbors and the cattle. For that many families, I would probably be looking to obtain at least 50K acres, preferably 70K on the estimation of 10 acres per family average. They will need farms and other open spaces, so the goal of 3K is very low for that head count, not to forget the children which stands to run the population of the community to ca. 30K. That is a very goodly sized town and 100 sq. miles of area would be about the minimum when food supplies are taken into consideration, especially if livestock for meat is to be raised, in which case I would add about another 10 or more square miles because cattle, for example, need lots of space. The ranch I almost bought in NM years ago was 5300 acres and rated for something like 230 cattle units, which is 1 cow +/- calf per unit plus. That was for an 8 square mile ranch full of buffalo- and grama grass, though not all of it was pasture. I do, BTW, regret not having bought that place... water under the bridge and all that.

I have had ideas like this running through my head for over 30 years - it is good to see someone attempting it.

 

[JK/SEA]

I'm out without reading farther..............

this.

 

[osan]

Sounds like The Village.

Where am I?

The Village.

What do you want?

Information... IN FOR MATION...

You won't get it!

We WILL. By hook. Or by crook...

...

Who are you?

I, am Number Two.

Who is Number 1?

You... are Number 6.

I am not a number! I am a FREE MAN!


BWAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...

 

[Demigod]

These guys a building a theme park

 

[osan]

I'm not sure exactly what the point of the walls are. May be useful in the event of a zombie apocalypse, but that's about it

Not to mention a terrible waste of money... But as you imply, it depends on whom they expect to have to defend themselves. If US forces, forget it, what with mortars, artillery, and aircraft lobbing ordnance on top of you from above. I might see use against hordes of sub/urbanites, but those sorts would never make it that far into the boonies... they would all perish of various causes long before that, IMO. I'd call walls a supreme waste of money which would be better spent elsewhere.

Anyhow, the more I think of this, the less likely it seems it will go anywhere - humans being what they are. I would call it far more promising if the people were pledged to live the lifestyle of, say, a plains-Indian tribe. Sedentary life is not terribly conducive to liberty, but given the realities of taxation, one cannot buy 100K acres and simply disappear on it. The "authorities" will be waiting for their yearly pound of flesh. So much for the notion that America is a free nation.

Like it or not, we are all slaves - a truth that cannot be escaped regardless of how we may try. We don't have monkeys on our backs, we have full-adult gray-backs riding us unto our utter depletion. We're in it so deep, most people have no hope of ever seeing it.

 

[tod evans]

As has been mentioned there seems to be a lack of farm land, livestock range and either a lake or river....

 

[osan]

Pride in American Exceptionalism

I'm out without reading farther..............

That bit caught my attention as well. Could be OK... could be shyte... it is undefined, so it could perhaps mean anything. This apparent carelessness with language is not a good sign. Establishing a free community/nation/what-have-you is not a simple matter of money and fuzzy notions of like-mindedness. It requires vast smarts - towering knowledge of a very comprehensive nature and a very strong understanding of certain human proclivities which are highly CONTEXT DRIVEN. Place a human being in a jungle tribe in the Amazon and you get one outcome. Place that same person in a tenement on 125th St. and Adam Clayton Powell Blvd. and something very different is likely to emerge.

Unless you design such a community with an overbearing awareness of human nature, you are going to devolve into the same state of entropy in which we now exist. As we all witness, money does NOTHING to prevent or correct this. It does, in fact, make it worse... not because of the nature of money, but rather the choices made by the people wielding it.

One cannot be free and be stupid at the same time. The two are mutually antagonistic to the point of exclusivity in the longer term. The more complicated a living arrangement becomes and the more "crowded", the greater the necessary minimal level of intellectual sophistication and smarts, not to mention attitude.

Entropy is the law of the land and this truth is made apparent in human affairs. The less MATERIAL entropy that exists in the human environment (i.e., the more complicated it is, e.g. high rises, aircraft, computer networks, automobiles) the greater the entropic drive upon interpersonal relations. It is a weird and almost paradoxical phenomenon. The farther we stray from "natural" levels of material entropy, the more entropic becomes our relationships with other people. The more orderly the material manifestations of a society of men becomes, the seemingly more disorderly our relations with one another in the sense that respect for the individual suffers miserably. We are at an all-time low in those terms when looked upon with our eyes focused most globally. The worst of it is that the tyrant has learned from the mistakes of his forbears. He is now coating his despotic acts with veneers of bullshit that fool the average lowatt intellect into accession. Their minds are either incapable of identifying the fact that they are being fed lines of shyte, or they choose not to because to do so would demand action they find too inconvenient to their petty desires.

The bottom line, as I have written here countless times before, is that pretty slavery is far and away more appealing to the average man than is freedom.

 

[Demigod]

Not to mention a terrible waste of money... But as you imply, it depends on whom they expect to have to defend themselves. If US forces, forget it, what with mortars, artillery, and aircraft lobbing ordnance on top of you from above. I might see use against hordes of sub/urbanites, but those sorts would never make it that far into the boonies... they would all perish of various causes long before that, IMO. I'd call walls a supreme waste of money which would be better spent elsewhere.

Anyhow, the more I think of this, the less likely it seems it will go anywhere - humans being what they are. I would call it far more promising if the people were pledged to live the lifestyle of, say, a plains-Indian tribe. Sedentary life is not terribly conducive to liberty, but given the realities of taxation, one cannot buy 100K acres and simply disappear on it. The "authorities" will be waiting for their yearly pound of flesh. So much for the notion that America is a free nation.

Like it or not, we are all slaves - a truth that cannot be escaped regardless of how we may try. We don't have monkeys on our backs, we have full-adult gray-backs riding us unto our utter depletion. We're in it so deep, most people have no hope of ever seeing it.

Every castle can be taken if you have enough man and weapons,but they could have at least made a try to do some research and make it have a point just a little,also it would be cheaper than building walls and gates

They could put some dragon teeth around the area they want to "protect".This would stop any vehicles much better than a wall.Also they would be extra cheep to make.

And behind the dragon teeth a man made earth hill around the city with a ditch in front and with tunnels within so to move.On the outside of the hill you could have fire posts and bunkers ( also cheep as hell to build ).

Something like this

Still anyway I see no point in building fortifications in Idaho,especially if it is as they say underpopulated.Building this city on the coast with a port would be much better for trade and thus increasing the chances of the city to prosper.

The fortification could not be anything more than a bluff to the government not to react,because if at any time it decides to take the bluff it is over.

.

 

[cheapseats]

Cities, cites. That's the word, not fortress.

Y'know how GOD is not the believer-approved term for all Believers?

A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet VS. frame the argument, frame the argument.

Walled community, gated community...look no further than state & federal buildings to see FORTRESSES.

City, starves in 2 or 3 weeks.

I have several times read that, without deliveries, 72 HOURS is about how long it would take for PANDEMONIUM to grip a garden-variety city.

That isn't a fortress. That is merely another city, with people residing in it. Those are everywhere.

I put on a lotta lotta miles driving around rather than flying OVER my country. If there were concentrations of like-minded people "everywhere", I'da run into more of 'em.

They ever wanted to declare any sort of autonomy, which the whole reason they claim they want to do the project, the feds would merely have to roadblock it in for around 10 days with about 150 leo, and they'd all come out for a free cup of ramen noodles and bottle of drinking water.

Versus the FULL FAITH & FORCE of the United States...with other Americans spectating...ONE Intentional Community stands the same chance as ARMY OF ONE. The standoff will last longer and more people (including Official) will die, but Officials would certainly prevail against ONE unit.

Peons throw shit at the wall SEQUENTIALLY, and Powers swat it down one by one. Powers throw shit at the wall SIMULTANEOUSLY, and some always sticks.

There are ways to MINIMIZE TROUBLE, and there are ways to COURT TROUBLE.

The MACHO species of the genus RUGGED INDIVIDUALIST ain't exactly known for wearing their hearts on their sleeves. Why would they broadcast plans/methods/assets/supplies beyond whatever "between the lines" lingo is needed to attract "their" peeps?

They want to do a housing project, they can set up apartments and have twice that concentration of people.

The point is not that their idea/vision/way could be done differently/better/right, but that they have the RIGHT to build THEIR living situation as they see fit. [Yada yada about not violating the rights of others, etc, etc.]

That isn't a fortress for declaring independent self-rule.

Indeed not, now that I see the snazzy layout. That said, FORTRESSES are everywhere. They just don't look like latter day fortresses. They protect the Government, the Corporations and the Wealthy.

Declaring "independent self-rule" falls under COURTING TROUBLE until it falls under SAFETY IN NUMBERS.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

I am curious to find out what "American exceptionalism" is a euphemism for (if anything). I also had a little chuckle at this:

Some of the benefits of the Citadel community include a safe, well-prepared, patriotic community where children will be educated in school, not indoctrinated.

I tend to think that perhaps the only way to learn that completely avoids "indoctrination" is unschooling, and even that is only if it is done properly. Is it not indoctrination when our side does it?

The important thing, of course, is "live and let live", but it's personally not for me. I prefer a little diversity in my environment.

 

[osan]

These guys a building a theme park

A few observations. Firstly, this cannot be to scale because I see no place that 7K families would live... unless they are under ground.

Next, the "Arms Factory" should be smack in the middle of the facility, not in some remote corner. Very ill-considered design. I wonder whether they would hire me to design this thing for them... they should because it is painfully clear that they have no idea what they are doing.

Where is the medical facility? HELLO? Where is the water supply? Not talking about the tanks shown, but the actual SOURCE. Wells? Bad gamble if they are betting the farm on those alone. Whence their foods? Whence the fuel for the power station? Let them build a LFTR, problem solved forever.

I know it is only an "artist's concept", but it is a really poor effort, no offense. If one is serious about this (BTW, whence the funding?), he should proceed as if that were the case and not as a sixth-grader scribbling out his D&D fantasies. I would forget about the walls altogether and situate the community in a place with a single point of ingress/egress that is easily defended as per Thermopylae. I would build an air strip rather than walls. Castles went by the wayside for a reason. I would build a network of tunnels accessible by every structure on the surface. The cost of the walls would cover that and more.

The more you put IN the ground, the better off you would be. The arms factory would be 5 stories below the surface. The exception would be the facility for gun powder, which should be isolated and on the surface in case of explosion, though properly vented underground storage would be good.

There appears to be a lot they are not taking into consideration. They need to hire me as their strategic designer and planner because if they go off as depicted in this rendering, they will be in for some surprises.

 

[osan]

I get the impression that they're hoping to be completely self sufficient.

I hope for their sake you are mistaken, because that which would be required would NEVER be permitted by the ruling mob. Energy production alone would be basis for sending in the drones.