Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher

[Carson]

I keep seeing the word "owned" and it doesn't feel right.

The Federal government and the State governments are entities. They can't really own anything. They can be set up to control land but the owners are the people that set up these entities.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

It is really a battle of public opinion. The feds have lots of OUR money and are persecuting the Bundys for a living, while the Bundys and the rest of us have to take time and money AWAY from our lives in defense. If enough people's opinions are swayed one way or the other, that side will win. If only a handful support the Bundys, then it is pretty much impossible for them to win. If there is enough support for them, they certainly can win, and they will win as much from pressure on the govt from behind to stop as from in front, facing arms.


Media is the big issue: Bundy has to become known as a sympathetic figure and while MSM is not portraying him that way, alternative certainly is. This may be the big test of the power of the internet to shape public opinion.

I've been saying now that this is the point where the Internet finally and really does become the game-changer. The traditional apparatus has been side-stepped, and even for those who are not on the internet they are exposed to people who are. Just 10 years ago the M$M would have owned public opinion all over this. and 10 years ago there were already a LOT of people on the Internet. The fallout from Bundy Ranch demonstrates that we have reached the tipping point where the Internet is primed to change the whole game.

So in addition to a new domestic patriot act under some innocuous name, we also need to look for legislation to lock down the internet coming in the next several months.

 

[Anti Federalist]

They did this to commercial fishermen as well.

I sat directly across the table from the director of the Nazi Marine Fisheries Service when he said, "my goal is to put at least half you people out of business".

What isn't well know except to people in the raw resource extraction business is The FEDs are HOSTILE. 50 years ago they started on small scale miners and mining claims. It is a slow squeeze to drive the people out always stepping up the pressure. To the general public they sell the moves as control of those devastating the land with pictures of the worst offences or practices the occurred 100 year before.
First they said you could not have a house on a mining claim unless you were mining the claim. Then it changed mining or not you had to file a plan of operation to keep a cabin on the claim. The it turned to you couldn't even have a cabin on the claim. Then you could only camp on the claim while you were mining. Then it moved to you could camp for only two weeks. At the same time they were doing this they were testing claims to see if you could make a profit mining the claims If not the claim was declared invalid and null and void. Of course all the restrictions they were imposing had a direct effect on the profitability of the claim. By 20 years ago thousand upon thousands of claim had been declared invalid and thousands of homes were destroyed. I can show you the foundations. All this was done while provable perjury of federal agents were getting by in federal courts. So the miners are almost all gone.

Then they started on the logging industry. Regs and fees were slowly upped and then the loggers agreed to a big compromise called RARE II where huge tracts of land were withdrawn from logging so logging could go on in the other areas. After that happened a little bird called the spotted owl was declared endangered and All the rest of the federal land was basically removed from logging. Of course at the same time the USFS is intentionally burning hundreds of thousands of acres of forest because it is GOOD for the forest, even extended crown run fires. Now the logging industry is dead except what is done on private land.

This is now the fate of the ranchers. Remember where it was said that Bundy was the only one left in that valley? Wonder what happened to the rest? A slow squeeze to drive them all out. Bundy knows this and that is why he is reacting the way he is. It isn't about him not paying fees. He knows that is the continuing steps to drive him out by making it unprofitable. Those that try and comply and be good citizens give up what has now been made unprofitable. Bundy knows they don't want the money, they want him GONE! They probably spent more on rounding up his cattle than he owes. BLM-mission accomplished- high fives!
Of course all of this has been encouraged supported and forced into court by environmental groups.

 

[klamath]

It is really a battle of public opinion. The feds have lots of OUR money and are persecuting the Bundys for a living, while the Bundys and the rest of us have to take time and money AWAY from our lives in defense. If enough people's opinions are swayed one way or the other, that side will win. If only a handful support the Bundys, then it is pretty much impossible for them to win. If there is enough support for them, they certainly can win, and they will win as much from pressure on the govt from behind to stop as from in front, facing arms.


Media is the big issue: Bundy has to become known as a sympathetic figure and while MSM is not portraying him that way, alternative certainly is. This may be the big test of the power of the internet to shape public opinion.

100% right. The greatest frustration I felt as a teenager while my family was living on a few thousand dollars a year was knowing we were paying taxes to support the army of federal attorneys trying to take us down.

 

[Carson]

Clyde Coulter pointed out a quote in a post of tod evans.


"Instead it is allowing a freeloading rancher and armed thugs to seize hundreds of thousands of acres of the people's land as their own fiefdom."

Lots of times when we point our bony fingers and say someone is a certain way, we really should reflect before we do it, because we may reflect later.

 

[klamath]

I've been saying now that this is the point where the Internet finally and really does become the game-changer. The traditional apparatus has been side-stepped, and even for those who are not on the internet they are exposed to people who are. Just 10 years ago the M$M would have owned public opinion all over this. and 10 years ago there were already a LOT of people on the Internet. The fallout from Bundy Ranch demonstrates that we have reached the tipping point where the Internet is primed to change the whole game.

So in addition to a new domestic patriot act under some innocuous name, we also need to look for legislation to lock down the internet coming in the next several months.

This is so true. The feds can't control the narrative like before when people can live blog from inside the siege. I think you pointed out earlier that the fed know this and are going to try and shut the net down. They though they had it covered with the TFR and road closures.

 

[pcosmar]

For the record you will find nowhere me saying people shouldn't come to Bundy's defense armed or otherwise. I have pointed out bad tactics and called out ignorance to what the stakes really were and the constant underestimation of the feds.

Tactics?

That was not even discussed here. and very little elsewhere..

And folks have been observing and documenting the Feds tactics.. They are quite familiar with them,, and many of the militia are Vets,, with Military tactics and training.

They was no call to violence,, just the opposite. There were continuous calls for peaceful protest.. but preparations were made for a violent response from the Fed Mercenaries.

I don't think anyone is underestimating the Feds. They are expecting violence from them. That is what these thugs do..

Training several hundred rifles on them kept them peaceful. Seems a good tactic to me.. and if any violence is started..it can be neutralized in seconds,, saving many lives.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Honestly you have been promoting violence for years. I have been fighting this exact war bundy is fighting since I was a teenager. That is what I did in my youth, trying to keep my home, I wasn't getting high on dope living in a commune or committing armed robbery. Again Fuck you.

Un-fucking-called for.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

They did this to commercial fishermen as well.

I sat directly across the table from the director of the Nazi Marine Fisheries Service when he said, "my goal is to put at least half you people out of business".

OH by the way, I wanted to thank you again for your advice on the commercial fishery bill back in 11, turns out I was one of a handful who helped kill the bill, and it came back in 2013 and turned into a monster scandal down east. I got some really strong positives East of 95 because of that.

 

[phill4paul]

I've been saying now that this is the point where the Internet finally and really does become the game-changer. The traditional apparatus has been side-stepped, and even for those who are not on the internet they are exposed to people who are. Just 10 years ago the M$M would have owned public opinion all over this. and 10 years ago there were already a LOT of people on the Internet. The fallout from Bundy Ranch demonstrates that we have reached the tipping point where the Internet is primed to change the whole game.

So in addition to a new domestic patriot act under some innocuous name, we also need to look for legislation to lock down the internet coming in the next several months.

Knowledge is the ultimate power in war. Always has been. A short decade has made a major difference.

 

[Anti Federalist]

OH by the way, I wanted to thank you again for your advice on the commercial fishery bill back in 11, turns out I was one of a handful who helped kill the bill, and it came back in 2013 and turned into a monster scandal down east.

Really?

Imagine my shock!

LOL - Kudos, Gunny for killing it the first time around.

Glad I was able to be of a tiny bit of help.

 

[klamath]

Un-fucking-called for.

Go to hell. this battle has been my battle since I was a boy. So no fucking person comes in and calls me a boot licker and makes up lies that I was telling everyone to vote for McCain. He brought that battle on himself.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Un-fucking-called for.

yeah, it is, but I've been trying to stay out of it because Pete drew first blood (pretty viciously I might add), and I've already yelled at Pete too much in the last month. So I was just trying to keep my distance. (several people) Taking potshots at klamath until he says something to offend someone seems to have become a sport. I doubt I'd hold my cool either in the same situation. Half the stuff he allegedly believes are innuendo from a counterparty.

From where I sit, it all started a while ago when klamath came out pretty heavy against people with a willingness to take up arms against the government. he cited a basic impossibility of victory and the contrast of modern war vs 100 years ago and how things have changed. While I am not quite as fervent, I too have dedicated my life to finding a solution that does not include gunfire. Whether I foresee an inevitability of basic civil defense or not, I will never begrudge someone (and a war vet IIRC?) the position of "I don't want to kill anymore."

The whole thing has exploded way out of proportion and there are deep misunderstandings on both sides; neither party really holds the positions the other party accuses them of. They are screaming past each other and as far as I can tell it's become a contest of math, quantity and weight of blows in a war of attrition.

I don't know what to say. The armed robbery thing was uncalled for, but so was Post #774. Someone who is philosophically opposed to taking up arms, whether I agree with them or not, is not a bootlicker or a copsucker on account of holding that position; particularly if they have arrived at that position from doing the math and counting the odds impossible. A failure to support selected "Remedy Q" does not imply that one loves the disease.

 

[klamath]

Also for the record I apologize to Pete for the arm robbery cut. I shouldn't have lost my temper to that point.

 

[Anti Federalist]

True enough and a reasonable response.

Hollering at ourselves doesn't do much good.

yeah, it is, but I've been trying to stay out of it because Pete drew first blood (pretty viciously I might add), and I've already yelled at Pete too much in the last month. So I was just trying to keep my distance. (several people) Taking potshots at klamath until he says something to offend someone seems to have become a sport. I doubt I'd hold my cool either in the same situation. Half the stuff he allegedly believes are innuendo from a counterparty.

From where I sit, it all started a while ago when klamath came out pretty heavy against people with a willingness to take up arms against the government. he cited a basic impossibility of victory and the contrast of modern war vs 100 years ago and how things have changed. While I am not quite as fervent, I too have dedicated my life to finding a solution that does not include gunfire. Whether I foresee an inevitability of basic civil defense or not, I will never begrudge someone (and a war vet IIRC?) the position of "I don't want to kill anymore."

The whole thing has exploded way out of proportion and there are deep misunderstandings on both sides; neither party really holds the positions the other party accuses them of. They are screaming past each other and as far as I can tell it's become a contest of math, quantity and weight of blows in a war of attrition.

I don't know what to say. The armed robbery thing was uncalled for, but so was Post #774. Someone who is philosophically opposed to taking up arms, whether I agree with them or not, is not a bootlicker or a copsucker on account of holding that position; particularly if they have arrived at that position from doing the math and counting the odds impossible. A failure to support selected "Remedy Q" does not imply that one loves the disease.

 

[pcosmar]

Go to hell. this battle has been my battle since I was a boy. So no fucking person comes in and calls me a boot licker and makes up lies that I was telling everyone to vote for McCain. He brought that battle on himself.

I wish I could search back to 2008.
cus I am sure you were one promoting McCain to keep Obama out, after Ron dropped out.

There were many here doing that,,and perhaps i have gotten you confused..
But not with your continuous disparagement of the Militia or of Constitutional Defense.

It will come down to shooting,,sooner or later. I do not want that and have said so..
But it is inevitable.
It is a historic Fact and has been repeated often.

I am disarmed. I have no firearms.. I have been non violent for many years,,and the last fight I was in was self defense somewhere around 2002 or 3. (and that aids infected scumbag is dead)

I will fight. If I ever hold a gun I will pick it up off a foe or fallen brother,, and carry it forward.

I do hate to see the bravery of those that stand with this man disparaged.. they are more heroes that anyone fighting for the Corporations in other lands.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Go to hell. this battle has been my battle since I was a boy. So no fucking person comes in and calls me a boot licker and makes up lies that I was telling everyone to vote for McCain. He brought that battle on himself.

What, you think you're the only person that's been done wrong by this asshole government?

That you're the only person that's been fighting this battle?

I've been in it since I was 18 (See those NMFS remarks> I was 20 when that meeting took place.) and I'm almost 50.

But I'm following Gunny's lead and letting it drop after this and not derailing the thread.

 

[fr33]

"This type of problem wouldn’t happen in Texas because all the land is owned privately" -RP

lol, no they can never raise property taxes...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...lans-to-Take-90-000-Acres-From-Texas-Ranchers

 

[KCIndy]

So in addition to a new domestic patriot act under some innocuous name, we also need to look for legislation to lock down the internet coming in the next several months.

Definitely. And I'll bet Harry Reid will expedite it in any way possible.

I'll also bet good money that the next target of the anti-gun crowd will be those "horrible long-rage sniper rifles."

It's going to be critically important that we be able to address these issues calmly, logically and persuasively. I've talked with a lot of people who had NO idea of what was going on in Nevada except what they had heard from the MSM. These people had come away with the impression that the government was simply going after the guy for refusing to pay taxes. The MSM pushes this because they know it will play well with the "that's not fair!" crowd.

Once I explained the basic facts, and as soon as I explained how they could look up the information themselves, their opinions did a 180.

We absolutely MUST be ready to explain what's happening - and what is likely to happen next - in clear, simple, understandable language.

 

[klamath]

I wish I could search back to 2008.
cus I am sure you were one promoting McCain to keep Obama out, after Ron dropped out.

There were many here doing that,,and perhaps i have gotten you confused..
But not with your continuous disparagement of the Militia or of Constitutional Defense.

It will come down to shooting,,sooner or later. I do not want that and have said so..
But it is inevitable.
It is a historic Fact and has been repeated often.

I am disarmed. I have no firearms.. I have been non violent for many years,,and the last fight I was in was self defense somewhere around 2002 or 3. (and that aids infected scumbag is dead)

I will fight. If I ever hold a gun I will pick it up off a foe or fallen brother,, and carry it forward.

I do hate to see the bravery of those that stand with this man disparaged.. they are more heroes that anyone fighting for the Corporations in other lands.

Well you are flat out wrong. I wrote in Ron Paul in 2008. I have hated McCain since I heard him on Michael Reagan's show go absolutely insane on a caller in 2000. even Reagan said he didn't want McCain ANYWHERE near the nuclear button.
As far a militia, some are good some are bad. My son spent his time in bunkers of one of the Montana militias in the 90's. and no I wouldn't stand next to them and call them my comrades. I don't hang out with child rapists. Other honorable militia I have no problem with.