ARG Poll shows Gingrich doing well w/ Evangelicals, Paul not so much

[danielboon]

This is what I do NOT understand..

So Newt cheats on two of his wives.. thus breaking a covenant he made with God when he got married. He also broke it with his wife, at the time, and family.

Ok.. he messed up.. lets forgive him.

He does it again.. ok.. two strikes, spit in Gods face.

THEN he is fined 300k for ethics violations as speaker of the house.. and booted.

YET - A group of people who are suppose to value a "good soul", "honesty", "truthfulness" and "trustworthyness" choose Newt?

WE HAVE JUMPED THE SHARK!!

I do NOT get the hypocrisy. I really don't.

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. in other words fake christians

 

[OrbitzXT]

You got it. His stand on Israel is going to kill him with evangelicals. Hopefully there are enough non-evangelicals to out vote the evangelicals. They believe that you have to "support" Israel or God will not bless you. "Support" is defined as unquestioning loyalty and financial and military support. Nevermind that Israeli leaders have basically said they can take care of themselves, we must "support" Israel nevertheless. This is a religious belief not a logical conclusion. We won't win this one with these people. I would be interested in hearing from some self-identified evangelicals who do not hold to this.

High ranking members of the Israel military and government have said themselves that Iran is not a threat to Israel, and even if they were they can deal with it themselves. So if the Israelis don't even want us mingling in their affairs, why are we and why is it such a big deal to Americans?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Exactly. I'm also an evangelical Christian, but I don't believe that supporting Israel means agreeing with everything they do, or supporting actions of theirs that are clearly wrong. (obviously) And I agree with you that being pro-Israel doesn't mean that we should give them foreign aid, in the same way I don't believe that generational welfare (government dependency) truly "helps" someone. Ron Paul explains it well, maybe many people still haven't heard his take on this?

I put together this short video, please feel free to share it with anyone who has the wrong idea about Ron Paul's position on Israel.

Nice job, Lily. Thanks.

 

[mainstream economist]

I realize that there is some frustration as to why Evangelical Christians are not tripping over themselves running to the candidate.

• who married his high school sweetheart
• has stayed true to his wife for 50+ years
• has delivered 4000+ babies (many of them for free, when the mother could not afford the fees)
• refused to perform abortions as a doctor
• who has the only plan that will give them a reasonable shot at preventing abortions in their home state (as opposed to California or New York)
• who is for the principle of nonviolence and peace (Jesus=Prince of Peace, not Prince of Undeclared Wars)
• has refused to take the lucrative congressional pension (essentially donating money to the country)
• has returned large sums of money from his congressional budget every year (again, donating money to the country)
• has never taken a congressional junket or lobbyist money (integrity)
• has been the only one to defend Israel's right to defend itself
• has been the only one to defend Israel's right to determine its own future without America telling it what to do
• has been the only one to have a foreign policy that agrees with the opinions of actual Israelis (and not some American chickenhawks who want to profit from war by pretending to be pro-Israel)
• ...etc.

Well, guess what, not everyone knows those things. Most evangelicals have no clue that this is the case. Most evangelicals have no idea that the fake conservatives they support are actually the very antithesis of evangelical Christians. The media will not do it, so the burden falls on us. Evangelicals are not stupid. They just haven't left the Matrix (MSM/party-shill pastors). Heck, we complain about the MSM, but many people in this country do not even watch the news, much less the Republican debates.

This is why Dr. Paul needs money to air TV ads.

If we could get some information from Nielson on which shows are most watched by certain demographics (like Evangelicals), and air ads during those shows, perhaps that would be extra effective. Regardless, we need to send money if we want Dr. Paul's message to spread to the Evangelicals.

 

[legion]

You got it! Catholic, Protestant, doesn't make any difference to them, what they find important is war against Muslims to defend Israel.

Evangelicals and Charismatics tend to have the attitude that they somehow control God's will and think things like "I'm just trying to get to Heaven" and "What can God do for me?"

Spiritual warfare is something that is projected outwards onto others, rather than an internal struggle.

Part of this is the belief that the time we live in simply must be the endtimes, and we have to force a world war centered around Israel to get it kicked off.

 

[goldpants]

I realize that there is some frustration as to why Evangelical Christians are not tripping over themselves running to the candidate.

• who married his high school sweetheart
• has stayed true to his wife for 50+ years
• has delivered 4000+ babies (many of them for free, when the mother could not afford the fees)
• refused to perform abortions as a doctor
• who has the only plan that will give them a reasonable shot at preventing abortions in their home state (as opposed to California or New York)
• who is for the principle of nonviolence and peace (Jesus=Prince of Peace, not Prince of Undeclared Wars)
• has refused to take the lucrative congressional pension (essentially donating money to the country)
• has returned large sums of money from his congressional budget every year (again, donating money to the country)
• has never taken a congressional junket or lobbyist money (integrity)
• has been the only one to defend Israel's right to defend itself
• has been the only one to defend Israel's right to determine its own future without America telling it what to do
• has been the only one to have a foreign policy that agrees with the opinions of actual Israelis (and not some American chickenhawks who want to profit from war by pretending to be pro-Israel)
• ...etc.

Well, guess what, not everyone knows those things. Most evangelicals have no clue that this is the case. Most evangelicals have no idea that the fake conservatives they support are actually the very antithesis of evangelical Christians. The media will not do it, so the burden falls on us. Evangelicals are not stupid. They just haven't left the Matrix (MSM/party-shill pastors). Heck, we complain about the MSM, but many people in this country do not even watch the news, much less the Republican debates.

This is why Dr. Paul needs money to air TV ads.

If we could get some information from Nielson on which shows are most watched by certain demographics (like Evangelicals), and air ads during those shows, perhaps that would be extra effective. Regardless, we need to send money if we want Dr. Paul's message to spread to the Evangelicals.

Amen to this

 

[COpatriot]

I wish there was a way to get a copy of the VVS speech into the hands of every evangelical in SC. I know at VVS they were handing out DVD's of his speech from the faith & freedom conference and that would be a good one as well.

I would love to make every evangelical read that speech and take the name off it. And only tell them who gave it after they've agreed with all or most of it.

 

[marhlfld]

It doesn't make sense to me either, at all. It leads me to believe that maybe those 'evangelicals' are actually just cultural Christians, not true followers.

I call them CINO's = Christians In Name Only

 

[sailingaway]

Ron got the second biggest group of evangelical voters after Santorum in Iowa. We just have a shorter time to introduce Ron to SC.

 

[Kevin Smyth]

High ranking members of the Israel military and government have said themselves that Iran is not a threat to Israel, and even if they were they can deal with it themselves. So if the Israelis don't even want us mingling in their affairs, why are we and why is it such a big deal to Americans?

No they didn't say that, they said that they didn't want Israel to carry out the operation themselves, they want America to attack Iran for them. People on the forum keep quoting Mossad and Netanyahu without realizing that those folks are two-faced, they have one message relating to Israel policy they say at home in Israel but they advocate an entirely different message for America. Look at this thread if you don't believe me, the thread is called Netanyahu favors U.S. threat of war to stop Iran nuke, does that sound like they don't want us involved in their affairs?:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...u-favors-U.S.-threat-of-war-to-stop-Iran-nuke

"If these sanctions are coupled with a clear statement from the international community led by the U.S. to act militarily to stop Iran if the sanctions fail, Iran may consider not going through the pain."

 

[NEPatriot]

This is what I do NOT understand..

So Newt cheats on two of his wives.. thus breaking a covenant he made with God when he got married. He also broke it with his wife, at the time, and family.

Ok.. he messed up.. lets forgive him.

He does it again.. ok.. two strikes, spit in Gods face.

THEN he is fined 300k for ethics violations as speaker of the house.. and booted.

YET - A group of people who are suppose to value a "good soul", "honesty", "truthfulness" and "trustworthyness" choose Newt?

WE HAVE JUMPED THE SHARK!!

I do NOT get the hypocrisy. I really don't.

Lord Xar > South Carolina

 

[Kevin Smyth]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...ranian-nukes-biggest-threat-global-stability/

Netanyahu met with Obama in 2009 and Netanyahu said, "Iran's obtaining nuclear weapons would be an existential threat not only to Israel but the rest of the world."

Netanyahu says that Iran with nukes is a threat to the entire world and he meets with Obama to talk about the crisis and you think he doesn't want U.S. involvement in the Middle East? You've got to be kidding.

 

[Kevin Smyth]

Everyone stop misquoting Netanyahu, when he says he doesn't want U.S. troops in Israel he means he doesn't want U.S. troops defending Israel's borders of Egypt, Lebanon, The West Bank, Gaza, Syria, etc...he does not mean IRAN. Iran does not share a border with Israel and he most definitely would want America to bomb Iran's nuclear program and even invade that country if we'd be willing to go along with it. Netanyahu is not an ally of the cause of American non-interventionism in Middle Eastern affairs, far from it!

 

[MMXII]

Must be for waragainst Muslims to be accepted by evangelicals.

THIS.

 

[COpatriot]

If we can find a way to appeal to the pro-war Christian voter then I'm all for it. I just don't see it happening. I live in Colorado Springs, a bastion of pro-war evangelical Christianity. These are the people who ignore biblejesus's message of "love your enemies" by sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "kill all those damn camel-jockeys herpa derp".

 

[SisCyn]

Evangelicals and Charismatics tend to have the attitude that they somehow control God's will and think things like "I'm just trying to get to Heaven" and "What can God do for me?"

Spiritual warfare is something that is projected outwards onto others, rather than an internal struggle.

Part of this is the belief that the time we live in simply must be the endtimes, and we have to force a world war centered around Israel to get it kicked off.

Yes, and ultimately both groups really do not care what Benjamin Netanyahu/Israel thinks or wants. They are not concerned about preserving Israel. They do not consciously realize it, but many want to destroy Israel from the inside out by converting all Jews to Christianity.

In the meantime, if the whole world explodes in a nuclear holocaust, they aren't that concerned about that either. They expect to be raptured out beforehand.

That said, there is a war of words going on between Evangelicals and Charismatics over how seriously to take the supernatural manifestations and downright charlatons that are rampant in the Charismatic world. Charismatic teachings are constantly invading established churches with latter day prophets and heretical teachings. This has created a whole new industry within churches that are trying to preserve their original faith and heritage.

A number of these Charismatic groups are affiliated together. These are the ones that I have heard approached Rick Perry to become a candidate. They are associated through IHOP (International House of Prayer), Morningstar Ministries, and other such groups. They, too have a large following of very young members. The infamous "prayer meeting" prior to the Iowa Straw Poll and Perry's surprise announcement as a candidate was set up by the leaders of these ministries.

To complicate matters even more, there can be a case made for an overlap in Mormon teaching in some cases. These groups are intent on establishing Christ's Kingdom before his return, i. e. he will return THROUGH them. They want the U. S. to become a Theocracy.

Some Christians put these groups in the "dangerous" category.

Easy to see why groups such as these are not attracted to liberty and Ron Paul's message.

 

[dancjm]

“Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God”

Mathew 5:9

 

[SisCyn]

Sin is not much of a concern with these groups, either, for they can be forgiven over and over. The more you sin, the more you can be forgiven.

Divorce is very high among Evangelicals, so Gingrich's moral character really is not an issue.

 

[Brick-in-the-Wall]

I pointed out once to an evangelical that it seems rather hypocritical to condemn Muslims for their beliefs, attacks on others, and blindly following the Quran when Christians in this country blindly follow 2,000 year old prophecies to go to war in the Middle East. He was silent and didn't know what to say.

Anyway, as I pointed out in another thread, economic threats are more dangerous than any nuclear ones.

I'd point out the debt and how that, even if we wanted to protect Israel and go to war, we couldn't.

Can you go to war if a loaf of bread is $25.00 due to inflation?
Can you go to war if there's 30% unemployment at home?
Can you go to war if you're so much in debt it's impossible to borrow the money needed to conduct the war?

The only way to do that is to change your economy into a war machine and go on a massive military campaign all over the world, like we did in WW2 and what the Germans did.

That might, MIGHT, scare them enough to look at Ron Paul and not just blindly follow the flavor of the week.

 

[SisCyn]

I pointed out once to an evangelical that it seems rather hypocritical to condemn Muslims for their beliefs, attacks on others, and blindly following the Quran when Christians in this country blindly follow 2,000 year old prophecies to go to war in the Middle East. He was silent and didn't know what to say.

Sad to say that many Christians have been misinformed on the history of the formation of the United States and the escape from religious tyranny.

There have been propaganda type movies that are shown in churches that tell how the founding fathers were Christian and that the U. S. was founded as a Christian nation.

They tell of the landing at Plymouth Rock and the the initial claiming of the new world for Christ.

They are woefully ignorant of the Constitution and are never told that the type of Christianity followed by some of the founding fathers is not anywhere near to the religion that the majority of Christians follow today. They have no idea what living under a true theocracy, such as Iran, would be like. To them, it all sounds like a very good idea.