Are you with us or against us?

[Bradley in DC]

Bradley, you are a smart enough guy to know that dredging crap up right now is a politically incompetent and ignorant thing to do. I don't see where dragging LE into this means anything or adds anything to your point (though I'd read an explanation). And while I want the CFL's finances to be honest, I don't know why you would be surprised that anyone and/or everyone here would look at this tripe and call it anything but an attempt to keeep the cats from forming a powerful herd.

When would have been the right time to dredge it up? (and this is the just the tip of the iceberg from what I've heard from the campaign staffers unhappy with its leadership) During the primaries?

My disagreement with LE and MsD was their attempt to stifle questioning and constructive criticism and to point out that we need to be watchdogs if we are to succeed. I raised questions last year. Most said, "give them the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure they have a plan to win" (afterall, the campaign said last year, give us X dollars and we'll win Iowa and New Hampshire, remember?) I don't consider the final delegate totals to be a "success" (but I'm considered critical ).

Dr. Paul has some successful organizations (the Congressional office and his Lake Jackson machine that got him re-elected). Obviously his medical practice was well-run or presumably we would have heard of malpractice stories, etc.

This is NOT an attack on Dr. Paul but a clarion call for us to be watchful of small, closed cliques that cling to each other in their hostility to the grassroots. Dr. Paul is a strong supporter of openness, transparency and accountability. Whistleblowers are an important tool for effectiveness and against waste, fraud and abuse.

There was a constant stream of complaints about the Arlington HQ staffers. That's not a bad thing--we need to know what we're doing well and where we can improve. The problem was to attack and (falsely) try to discredit people for "being on the wrong side" and other bs.

We need to ask if what we got at the National nominating convention is really the best we could have done. If not, what should we be doing differently?

 

[Bradley in DC]

Perhaps this IS advancing the movement.

It should be. Creative destruction and all that.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[Rhys]

I don't trust anyone who brags about being in DC.

 

[Truth Warrior]

It should be. Creative destruction and all that.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Intelligent people usually learn much more from their failures than they do from their successes.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Intelligent people usually learn much more from their failures than they do from their successes.

I guess that precludes two of the mods.

 

[Bradley in DC]

I don't trust anyone who brags about being in DC.

Who's bragging about that?! :o

and a healthy skepticism is a good thing--that's my whole point, actually.

 

[lynnf]

ultimate responsibility

When would have been the right time to dredge it up? (and this is the just the tip of the iceberg from what I've heard from the campaign staffers unhappy with its leadership) During the primaries?

My disagreement with LE and MsD was their attempt to stifle questioning and constructive criticism and to point out that we need to be watchdogs if we are to succeed. I raised questions last year. Most said, "give them the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure they have a plan to win" (afterall, the campaign said last year, give us X dollars and we'll win Iowa and New Hampshire, remember?) I don't consider the final delegate totals to be a "success" (but I'm considered critical ).

Dr. Paul has some successful organizations (the Congressional office and his Lake Jackson machine that got him re-elected). Obviously his medical practice was well-run or presumably we would have heard of malpractice stories, etc.

This is NOT an attack on Dr. Paul but a clarion call for us to be watchful of small, closed cliques that cling to each other in their hostility to the grassroots. Dr. Paul is a strong supporter of openness, transparency and accountability. Whistleblowers are an important tool for effectiveness and against waste, fraud and abuse.

There was a constant stream of complaints about the Arlington HQ staffers. That's not a bad thing--we need to know what we're doing well and where we can improve. The problem was to attack and (falsely) try to discredit people for "being on the wrong side" and other bs.

We need to ask if what we got at the National nominating convention is really the best we could have done. If not, what should we be doing differently?

I'm not attacking RP, either, but the ultimate responsibility is his. I've been told he was informed of some things that he chose not to act on. even if he hadn't been told, the ultimate responsibility is still his as with any commander. remember the submarine commander whose sub struck the Japanese fishing ship (and other captains that had to take the bullet when their ships were damaged)? no matter the reason they had to take the blame -- it comes with the territory. so there is where the true blame lies.

so you ask the question about what should be done differently. some of it's already being done -- switching from the campaign to CFL. now, if the same people that were in charge/involved at the campaign are in charge/involved at CFL, we may get more of the same, so any that may be incompetent or untrustworthy should be exposed. if RP chooses not to act again, God help us.

lynn

p.s. oh, and about the vote totals at the convention -- we saw the extent of skullduggery the other side will go to in order to win. do you think if we actually had 50% + of the vote they would have let us win? I don't think so. it would have been even more of the same like what happened in NV. so counting vote totals in the face of such cheating doesn't produce any meaningful reckoning

 

[Rhys]

Who's bragging about that?! :o

and a healthy skepticism is a good thing--that's my whole point, actually.

naw, that's a beltway spin response. Too much fun and emotion and acknowledgment and compliments. You're a plant and you're full of shit.

 

[itshappening]

Iowa, in my opinion, was sabotaged. loads of people suspected so at the time

logically we should have had a much better showing due to the small amount of voters and caucus nature of the process. this heavily favors grass roots organization, like it did for Huckabee and Obama but oddly not for Paul.

Brad is right to raise these issues

 

[Rhys]

Iowa, in my opinion, was sabotaged. loads of people suspected so at the time

logically we should have had a much better showing due to the small amount of voters and caucus nature of the process. this heavily favors grass roots organization, like it did for Huckabee and Obama but oddly not for Paul.

Brad is right to raise these issues

iowa was sabotaged... by a teenaged supporter who destroyed the database of canvased supporters. We had no organization there on election day as a result because we had no names.

 

[MsDoodahs]

iowa was sabotaged... by a teenaged supporter who destroyed the database of canvased supporters. We had no organization there on election day as a result because we had no names.

Was the young man just stupid or did he not get his way on something?

I seem to recall something about he didn't get the credit he felt he deserved for what he believed was his contribution?

Some people will react that way - sabotage something they claim to support - when they don't get their way.

 

[torchbearer]

Was the young man just stupid or did he not get his way on something?

I seem to recall something about he didn't get the credit he felt he deserved for what he believed was his contribution?

Some people will react that way - sabotage something they claim to support - when they don't get their way.

You bring up a good point.. something that was hammered home at the training for the precinct leadership summit.
"This isn't about you."
When it comes to representing the interest of your neighbors, it isn't about you.
When it comes to being a grassroots lobbyist for your neighborhood, it isn't about you.
And when it comes to reclaiming our constitutional republic, it isn't about you.

If you are doing this for personal recognition and reward, you are here for the wrong reason.
If you sabotage your work because someone didn't get on their knees before you... you are here for the wrong reason.

If you are here to castrate the people trying to provide the tools for our success you are here for the wrong reasons.

If you fit into the above categories... you know who you are... you are here for the wrong reasons.

If you focus isn't a positive one, you are here for the wrong reasons.

I like bradley, and i love him as a human who claims to want liberty... but right now, he is here for the wrong reasons.

 

[Bradley in DC]

I like bradley, and i love him as a human who claims to want liberty... but right now, he is here for the wrong reasons.

You know my reasons? Interesting, please enlighten me...

 

[Bradley in DC]

iowa was sabotaged... by a teenaged supporter who destroyed the database of canvased supporters. We had no organization there on election day as a result because we had no names.

The more important question, if there is something to this story (I have no idea), rests with the management of the campaign itself and the decision to put our entire campaign in the hands of one someone (regardless of their age). Data systems rely on backups and redundancies. These are top level problems.

There are lots of reasons we lost Iowa and NH, including organization, counter-productive ads, etc.

 

[New York For Paul]

This is the perfect time to raise questions as the new organization is getting off the ground. If you want C4L to be around a few years from now then you had better get a good foundation of good people running it. Otherwise it will end up with nothing.

For instance, Ron Paul just said they spent millions in Minnesota. I hope it was money well spent, but the march on Washington was done for forty thousand dollars.

Did they spend too much? Who knows. But it would be nice to have an accounting.

During the campaign several people called Ron Paul's congressional office in disgust, after seeing how supporters were being ignored at the campaign office. That would be unanswered email, letters and phone calls. You won't be able to win Iowa or New Hampshire if you ignore your volunteers who are working to get out the vote and if you ignore the donors who finance the staff.

This is just basic courtesy and basic politics 101. The official campaign couldn't event get that right.

If a congressional office ignores their constituents, they will soon be booted from office. In fact many of the most controversial Congressmen and Senators stay elected by providing outstanding constituent service, winning over members of the opposing party.

Senator Jesse Helms was always targeted by democrats, but alway won reelection by responding to constituents. Even Democrats were impressed with Helms.

So we have a right to question the organization. It will keep them on their toes. Competition will hopefully propell C4L and other grassroots groups to more effectiveness.

We are the customers and we have a right to demand adequate service.

Many orgnaizations act as if the customer doesn't matter, like the Federal Government. Hopefully, C4L would be responsive to the needs of those it serves and those who fund it.

 

[jcarcinogen]

If there was embezzlement in the LP in 1988, I hope the party is more sound and worthy of its supporters today.

I never liked the way Paul's campaign dropped the ball on NH and spent money frugally using 'evangelical' techniques...

If the LibertyPAC exists, what exactly is the purpose of the CFL beyond its 'multimillion dollar' rally to show to the grassroots? The concept of PAC's on 'local politics' is an ethical gray area to me anyway.

Bob Barr 2008.

 

[torchbearer]

You know my reasons? Interesting, please enlighten me...

not your specific reason, but it doesn't fit in the positive categories.
You enlighten me, because I don't understand the end game you are looking for...
perhaps if you educate me to your enlightened ways, I will join you in your crusade.

 

[New York For Paul]

Imagine if the Ron Paul Campaign had spent the money on the Manchester Arena for several days and had invited everybody to New Hampshire to help out. He might have done a little better.

The other campaigns had huge volunteer operations in Manchester and Ron Paul had this tiny office in Concord. Obama had eight to ten offices around the state.

Clinton had several offices around the state and one huge office in New Hampshire with hundreds of college students bussed in from around the east coast.

 

[constituent]

Clinton had several offices around the state and one huge office in New Hampshire with hundreds of college students bussed in from around the east coast.

what? what? what?

that sounds like they were.... (gasp).... trying to win?

the audacity!

 

[SLSteven]

Are you with us or against us?

with