Are you unemployed?

[gonegolfin]

Yeah, the outsourcing and insourcing with Indians is mostly in the IT area. Unfortunately, that is the biggest segment of computer related jobs.

If you are a small operation, you would be foolish to go with a resource just because they were cheap. You don't have the bloat to support bad decisisons (like a huge company or government always does).

Yes. If you are a software company, the core of what you do is develop software. You do not outsource that core component because the labor is cheaper. Software companies that have tried it have failed miserably.

I should point out that the two biggest software companies do import a ton of Indian developers. MS and Oracle. They also propogate all the myths (not enough Americans, Americans aren't educated enough, Americans aren't the best, India is full of tech geniuses, etc.).

First, the core talent at Oracle and Microsoft is mostly domestic talent, not imported. Second, importing overseas talent is not bad in and of itself. Assuming that it is actually talent they are seeking and not cheap labor. The good companies are not hiring cheap labor in this case (as opposed to outsourcing). Foreign workers in the US working for software companies are paid competitive salaries. Some of my staff (throughout my career) has always been composed of some foreign talent. And they are paid the same salaries/bonus/stock/etc. as everyone else.

I agree that it is nonsense that American engineering is not competitive and that the education is inferior. The US is the premier place in the world for Computer Science education and the premier place to work in the CS field. If it were not, foreigners would not be flocking to the states for their CS education and remaining here after graduation.

Brian

 

[Brian4Liberty]

First, the core talent at Oracle and Microsoft is mostly domestic talent, not imported.

Do you consider the "core" talent at Oracle to be the people developing the applications or the database kernal? I know the applications rely heavily on imported labor. Actually, they are usually modifiying software that Oracle has captured in hostile takeovers anyways, so its not entirely new code...

I personally knew one person who worked on the OS at MS. He was an Indian on a visa, and took some pride in the fact that his team delayed a release of Windows, and was personally reprimanded by Bill...

Foreign workers in the US working for software companies are paid competitive salaries. Some of my staff (throughout my career) has always been composed of some foreign talent. And they are paid the same salaries/bonus/stock/etc. as everyone else.

Granted, "Perm" positions are competitively paid, with the Indian discount only being about 10%-20% (in my past experience). Today, they are about the same. In general, I would attribute this to the transparency of direct hire's pay, and the need to conform to equal pay for equal job regulations (and PR).

But contracting is not transparent, often with lots of middle-men, and labor costs buried in contracts. The biggest hit for the actual programmers has been contracting, where rates have dropped by over 50% directly due to importation of Indian labor. The "annual" contract rate is now about the same as a "perm" position, if and only if, you find enough contract work to keep you busy the entire year (and that's hard to do for the past few years). Big IT projects consist of mostly contract labor, so once again, it's a big chunk of the jobs that are effected.

If you are the company hiring temp contract work, the actual pay to the developers is often hidden, so the money lost to the programmers goes to some discounts on the project price, and a lot of it goes to extra levels of middlemen.

For instance, you pay Anderson Consulting for the project. They take a big cut. They go to a US-based out/insourcing headhunter, they take a cut. They go to a body-shop in India for the actual developers, that are then brought to the US. They take a cut. All of those cuts come out of the developers rate.

I agree that it is nonsense that American engineering is not competitive and that the education is inferior. The US is the premier place in the world for Computer Science education and the premier place to work in the CS field. If it were not, foreigners would not be flocking to the states for their CS education and remaining here after graduation.

The propoganda and lies put out (by Bill Gates and others) has been very effective. Of course all the politicians echo it with their "we need better education and retraining" nonsense. If US citizens with Computer Science degrees already can't find work, training more Americans won't help...

 

[fatjohn]

These are government numbers btw
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Still not really the same with the mainstream media. Shows about 2.96 million less people in labor force and 3.55 million more who seek a job.

 

[newbitech]

i bounced from Mortgage IT to Telecom IT. We all know what happened to mortgage. Well telecom is getting routed down in the south east as we speak. I will be one of the last to go at my company (again). THis is getting ridiculous.

 

[Dunbar]

I feel bad for anyone looking for a job or who gets laid off. I remember what it was like in 2002 after the NASDAQ bubble burst. A very qualified woman got hired on at our company to do temp work (eventually came on full time) and was telling me how there was nothing out there (she was looking at selling gym memberships a horrible job.) A good friend of mine's dad got laid off from a six figure HMO management position (major bread winner) and actually resorted to retail work at a department store for a time. Took him two years but he eventually found a a better paying, easier gig. But that was such a mild recession compared to what we are facing today.

 

[danberkeley]

I feel bad for anyone looking for a job or who gets laid off. I remember what it was like in 2002 after the NASDAQ bubble burst. A very qualified woman got hired on at our company to do temp work (eventually came on full time) and was telling me how there was nothing out there (she was looking at selling gym memberships a horrible job.) A good friend of mine's dad got laid off from a six figure HMO management position (major bread winner) and actually resorted to retail work at a department store for a time. Took him two years but he eventually found a a better paying, easier gig. But that was such a mild recession compared to what we are facing today.

And Obama is gonna make it worse by doing what FDR did. Welcome to the Great Depression II.

 

[angelatc]

That's kind of where I'm at. I'm a programmer who worked on contracted projects.

Well the projects have pretty much dried up. I make a pitch to people that I know can't afford it. They'd litterally have to fire two employees to pay for the project I'm pitching sometimes.

It's sad... this economy has fallen so far...

I have an idea for a project. It might be stupid but maybe we can become millionaires. What the hell, right? I will PM you.

 

[orafi]

Family business and full time student. When things go slow, I feel unemployed. When things go fast, I feel like a sweat shop laborer. So many things to do! Then, there's nothing! UGH!

I need a more consistent job.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I'm a web/graphic designer. Been doing it on the side for about eight or nine years, and last year I decided to do it full time from home. So far it's been working out great. We haven't missed a meal yet

There's still quite a demand for new websites; I see lots of people turning to the web to expand their business in our tough economic climate. Marketing is becoming more and more important, and increasing your customer base via the web is a vital strategic tool.

And even during a depression, people's websites break or need updating. It is becoming a little more competitive, though.

what's the best way to learn web design? I know graphic design, but web design leaves me like this- I have Dreamweaver MX, but don't really know what I'm doing yet.

 

[orafi]

what's the best way to learn web design? I know graphic design, but web design leaves me like this- I have Dreamweaver MX, but don't really know what I'm doing yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBYAy8I5yNU

 

[ihsv]

what's the best way to learn web design? I know graphic design, but web design leaves me like this- I have Dreamweaver MX, but don't really know what I'm doing yet.

Well, I started out using Microsoft Frontpage 1.0 (blech!). Once I understood the principles of basic html layout, and the limitations of using a WYSIWYG interface, I started learning to handcode the markup. I stuck with the table-based method for awhile, then I discovered CSS. I built my first table-less, 100% CSS based site in 2004 and have never gone back.

I suppose my advice is to learn what you need to complete a specific project. If you don't already have a web host, get an account with one (site5.com is good), and then break out dreamweaver and start practicing. Figure out what you want to accomplish, and then find out what you need to do and know to accomplish that. Baby steps.

The key to the graphic design part of it is the slice tool in Photoshop, but you really need a good understanding of web design to slice your images and layouts properly.

Here's a couple of fairly useful beginner tutorials on html, xhtml and css.

Once you understand the fundamentals of html markup and css layout, then you can take that knowledge and slice your web-layout from photoshop and apply it properly.

I haven't watched the videos, but this tutorial looks fairly interesting.

I just kind of picked it up as I needed it.

Hope this helps a little

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Thanx! ~hug~

I picked up a little bit of CSS in school (in a Quark 6 class), but I still have soooo much to learn!

Well, I started out using Microsoft Frontpage 1.0 (blech!). Once I understood the principles of basic html layout, and the limitations of using a WYSIWYG interface, I started learning to handcode the markup. I stuck with the table-based method for awhile, then I discovered CSS. I built my first table-less, 100% CSS based site in 2004 and have never gone back.

I suppose my advice is to learn what you need to complete a specific project. If you don't already have a web host, get an account with one (site5.com is good), and then break out dreamweaver and start practicing. Figure out what you want to accomplish, and then find out what you need to do and know to accomplish that. Baby steps.

The key to the graphic design part of it is the slice tool in Photoshop, but you really need a good understanding of web design to slice your images and layouts properly.

Here's a couple of fairly useful beginner tutorials on html, xhtml and css.

Once you understand the fundamentals of html markup and css layout, then you can take that knowledge and slice your web-layout from photoshop and apply it properly.

I haven't watched the videos, but this tutorial looks fairly interesting.

I just kind of picked it up as I needed it.

Hope this helps a little

 

[jyakulis]

not yet...

 

[pacelli]

Unemployed clinical psychologist. No available clinical psychology jobs within a 50 mile radius of my area suited for my specialization.

Have not applied and will not apply for unemployment, so the government won't include me in their statistic.

 

[axiomata]

Yes, as of December.

Graduated last May and got a structural engineering position right out of college.

Nobody can finance/afford new buildings at the moment.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking at switching to road design in expectation of Obama's infrastructure stimulus even though it's not my passion, would likely be short term employment, and would be a misallocation of my skills. Just responding to the incentives, don't blame me.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes, as of December.

Graduated last May and got a structural engineering position right out of college.

Nobody can finance/afford new buildings at the moment.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking at switching to road design in expectation of Obama's infrastructure stimulus even though it's not my passion, would likely be short term employment, and would be a misallocation of my skills. Just responding to the incentives, don't blame me.

I don't blame ya...I'm in pretty much the same shitty position.

 

[tsopranos]

Was unemployed for 4 1/2 months. Starting my new job tomorrow, I hit the lottery with this one...very fortunate.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

I was for like 4-5 weeks, not anymore. Its not like I'm aiming for the stars with where I work anyways though heh.

My father, who has worked for the same company since before I was born, was laid off however. Bummer.

 

[smileylovesfreedom]

not now. May be soon

 

[ingrid]

Glad to see it's not just me! When I was consulting, I got more business fixing failed projects from India than I could imagine!!!

Here's an article of interest...

Interesting article.

I'm working, but I don't make that much