Are you for illegal amnesty or not?

[ChaosControl]

I support getting rid of the welfare state and making legal immigration easier though. Then the illegals can go through the easier process in the future if they want.

I don't support just granting them outright citizenship though.

 

[The Patriot]

fas·cism
   /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled[fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.
Use fascism in a Sentence
See images of fascism
Search fascism on the Web
Origin:
1915–20; < It fascismo, equiv. to fasc ( io ) bundle, political group ( see fasces) + -ismo -ism

—Related forms
an·ti·fas·cism, noun
pro·fas·cism, noun

*******

Socialism and open boarders do not mix. You are correct. However by closing the boarders and becoming staunch "nationalists", that would make us "National Socialists". Remember who ran the National Socialist Party?

Ok, if you want to play that game, than you are an international socialist. You do remember who the International Socialists were right?

Is that all your argument comes down to, calling me a Nazi? Because I don't support mass immigration and porous borders while we have a welfare state and an overreaching electoral apparatus that will only get larger as these people become voters? Sorry, I love liberty to much, and I don't define liberty as being able to vote to steal another person's money and getting a free lunch.

 

[Sarge]

Picked this up over at the Ticker Forum. It speaks for itself.

http://www.dontspeakforme.org/principles.html

 

[Stary Hickory]

this question is loaded, and the only reason immigration is a big deal now is because the economy is in the shitter.

I understand wanting to kick out the cartel group that shoot up small border towns. But instituting a police state and forcing people to display their "papers" just because of the way the look is complete and total horseshit, and it is exactly what the Nazi's did.

I wonder if you are even making an attempt to portray reality here? First I have seen no indication that they are able to stop you based on how you look. For starters no one in their right mind would propose such a bill, second the gov would never sign such a bill.

And you are already required to present your ID at many many occasions. It is absolutely retarded to let an illegal immigrant continue when it is obvious they are not citizens. People here are asking for ZERO enforcement of border laws.

 

[AuH20]

fas·cism
   /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled[fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.
Use fascism in a Sentence
See images of fascism
Search fascism on the Web
Origin:
1915–20; < It fascismo, equiv. to fasc ( io ) bundle, political group ( see fasces) + -ismo -ism

—Related forms
an·ti·fas·cism, noun
pro·fas·cism, noun

*******

Socialism and open boarders do not mix. You are correct. However by closing the boarders and becoming staunch "nationalists", that would make us "National Socialists". Remember who ran the National Socialist Party?

Technically, WE are the enemies of fascism, because the corporate/government alliance enjoys the benefits of unfettered illegal immigration. Thanks for bringing that point forth. Anti-illegal immigration = anti-fascism.

 

[ababba]

I support open borders.

The welfare state/illegal immigration argument is generally wrong.

People currently living in a welfare state have the same incentives to not work and mooch off the state as immigrants. Most choose to work and earn a better living for their family. Once immigrants enter the country, they face the same marginal incentives to work as those already here. You have to answer the fundamental question of why immigrants are more lazy than those already here.

I think the average immigrant is generally less lazy than the average american, but its certainly not a runaway win for Americans, which this argument requires.

 

[AuH20]

+1776

Come here with rational arguments not slogans or meaningless catch phrases in an attempt to make ridiculous comparisons.

There are a few people who are emotionally invested in the illegal immigration debate, which in turn clouds their judgement. And as we all know, the law shouldn't be based on emotion or selective enforcement. It should be blind.

 

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Sorry, this is not a Either/Or deal and its the same false-dichotomy bullshit as the Left/Right 'divide'. There are better ways of dealing with Immigration than making all of us suffer under repression by having to display government documents everywhere we go. There is also the fact that we have far bigger fish to fry as well as the falling/declining birth rates the world over (we've plateaued as it is and by 2050 there are going to be ALOT less of us than there are now). Gutting the banking cartel scum will heal ALOT of the problems we have now, including our ailing economy.

 

[angelatc]

I predict that the actual demonization won't be the race card. They've played that many times already.

The demonization will come when the deportations start breaking up families. <sniffle>

There may well be better ways to get them to leave. If each state has a different plan, we'll likely find one or two that actually work.

 

[Stary Hickory]

There are a few people who are emotionally invested in the illegal immigration debate, which in turn clouds their judgement. And as we all know, the law shouldn't be based on emotion. It should be blind.

Yeah I know, I just get tired of no one really giving a krap about the welfare state and it's corrupting influence on the country yet absolutely supporting things like immigration which will worsen the problem.

I am the type of person that never wants to see another human being forced to do anything, it's a sad day when a criminal gets put away in my book. But necessary. But with the huge welfare state and our country now teetering on the edge of absolute unlimited government and tyranny due to a corrupt democracy and gutting of our constitution I cannot just sit by and let it all go to hell.

If we allow politicians to pander to foreigners by offering them our slave labor and our property how can we continue? I refuse to live in that world. A change must come. If we rid ourselves of welfarism and insituionalized violence controlled by mob rule then we would have nothing to fear from any immigrant.

Until such a time border security must be kept.

 

[Stary Hickory]

Sorry, this is not a Either/Or deal and its the same false-dichotomy bullshit as the Left/Right 'divide'. There are better ways of dealing with Immigration than making all of us suffer under repression by having to display government documents everywhere we go. There is also the fact that we have far bigger fish to fry as well as the falling/declining birth rates the world over (we've plateaued as it is and by 2050 there are going to be ALOT less of us than there are now). Gutting the banking cartel scum will heal ALOT of the problems we have now, including our ailing economy.

What is the better way of it is not enforcement? Tell me please? And then articulate how we get there. The AZ bill is mostly sensible....unless you believe in open borders and unlimited immigration.

 

[silentshout]

No, but I still disagree with the "show me your papers" bs law.

 

[fj45lvr]

Why don't we watch and control our own border as well as we do foreign ones???


pathetic.

 

[AuH20]

Why don't we watch and control our own border as well as we do foreign ones???


pathetic.

Tells you how bogus the WoT is.

 

[The Patriot]

There are better ways of dealing with Immigration than making all of us suffer under repression by having to display government documents everywhere we go

I agree, where does the law say I have to carry my passport wherever I go? You are confusing this reasonable measure based on reasonable suspicion(totally within the parameters of the Constitution) to the National Biometric ID Card for law abiding Americans who have committed no legal infraction under reasonable suspicion.

 

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

What is the better way of it is not enforcement? Tell me please? And then articulate how we get there. The AZ bill is mostly sensible....unless you believe in open borders and unlimited immigration.

Does it not compute that this is a false issue? This is yet more way the Oligarchs can divide us and cause us to turn on one another. Immigration is a NON-ISSUE! This whole 'Show me your papers!' bullshit HAS to stop! We DON'T want to increase the power of government.

 

[Stary Hickory]

I agree, where does the law say I have to carry my passport wherever I go? You are confusing this reasonable measure based on reasonable suspicion(totally within the parameters of the Constitution) to the National Biometric ID Card for law abiding Americans who have committed no crimes under reasonable suspicion.

If you have committed a violation or break the law you have to identify yourself anyways. All you need is a drivers license or another way of identifying yourself.

We delve into the absurd when we make believe we not identify ourselves like that. It's logical then that an officer would know if someone was legally here or not. They already know now. But now they can take action. I am fine with enforcing immigration laws.

Maybe they would not be necessary if there was no welfare state. But no one here clamors about ending the welfare state....which bugs me. The welfare state is the source of the violence.

 

[Spider-Man]

I could not respond to this poll, because neither option expressed my view accurately.

 

[aravoth]

And you are already required to present your ID at many many occasions. It is absolutely retarded to let an illegal immigrant continue when it is obvious they are not citizens. People here are asking for ZERO enforcement of border laws.

what makes it obvious that they are not citizens?

I'm not advocating for zero enforcement, but I sure as hell am not advocating for rounding people up, putting them on a cattle car and dumping them right back into the oppressive shithole they just came from.

 

[fj45lvr]

I sure as hell am not advocating for rounding people up, putting them on a cattle car and dumping them right back into the oppressive shithole they just came from.

is this refrencing rounding up U.S. expats abroad??