Are we paying to bring all these people from south of the border ?

[puppetmaster]

Figures for 2005 but compiled by the Comptroller of Texas:

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/7conclusion.html

Wait a minute, you just posted benefits that they get after you said they do not get them....

This narrow report by the same government that wants them here leaves out costs to our society and way of life.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Wait a minute, you just posted benefits that they get after you said they do not get them....

This narrow report by the same government that wants them here leaves out costs to our society and way of life.

They are not eligible for Federal benefits. The programs listed are state ones. See your state representatives to get them changed.

 

[amy31416]

I am seriously beginning to think the "United States" need to dissolve and it needs to be every man for himself. Tired of people who don't live in my state and who are barely affected by the criminal element coming over the border telling me how I "should" feel about it. Or that if it doesn't fit into a tidy little set of ideals, then it must not be happening.


Done with this thread.

As a Yankee, I fully admit that I've never really understood the issue. I don't see Mexicans, legal or not, as being better or worse than your average American.

 

[Ender]

Even if that were completely accurate, you are simply looking at the cost to the state, not the cost to citizens within the state. As areas become overrun with immigrants, they leave in their wake crappy and overcrowded schools. Middle class folks that want to start a family then have to move to an area with better schools. The flight of people in to these enclaves of livability drives up property values and with them, the property taxes. Maybe the state makes the same amount of revenue off it, but if a middle class person has to pay tens of thousands of dollars more just to get the minimum quality of life necessary to start a family, that is a massive burden.

Whole lotta freedom non-understanding in this paragraph.

First of all, no freedom-loving parent should put their kids in government schools. These mandatory schools are only there to make compliant factory workers and NOT to educate.

2nd- property values are driven up either because of the beautification of the property and location or from the FED decreasing the value of the dollar through fractionalized banking.

3rd- property taxes are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

So, the answer should be that we should all be working to get rid of gov out of our personal and private lives- it has NOTHING to do with immigrants.

 

[RonPaulMall]

Whole lotta freedom non-understanding in this paragraph.

First of all, no freedom-loving parent should put their kids in government schools. These mandatory schools are only there to make compliant factory workers and NOT to educate.

2nd- property values are driven up either because of the beautification of the property and location or from the FED decreasing the value of the dollar through fractionalized banking.

3rd- property taxes are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

So, the answer should be that we should all be working to get rid of gov out of our personal and private lives- it has NOTHING to do with immigrants.

1. Agree, but most parents work two jobs and can't afford to pay private school on top of the taxes they pay for the public schools.

3. No argument from me there, but the fact is they do exist and people with guns come if you don't pay.

And on point #2, I think you are missing the fact that beautification is relative. As third world immigrants encroach on a neighborhood, that neighborhood becomes less desirable and the more exclusive neighborhoods where the third world immigrants can't afford to move in to become even more desirable than they were before.

 

[Carlybee]

As a Yankee, I fully admit that I've never really understood the issue. I don't see Mexicans, legal or not, as being better or worse than your average American.

It's not about Mexicans or their race. They just happen to make up a lot of the illegals. They cost Texas 12 billion dollars a year..or rather illegals in general. I've said it 5 times. Mexican cartels have moved into not just Texas but across the country. They run human trafficking rings. They kidnap children and force them into prostitution. The do it because they can, because illegal immigration is encouraged by their own countries and our politicians and apparently approved of by quite a few on this forum. The ones who do come here for jobs use false of stolen social security cards, they can retire and draw social security of which the companies they work for contribute half. They can draw the minimum if they only work 10 years. Most of them pay NO income tax so your taxes you pay get to take up the slack. Not only that they can claim the earned income credit and get a tax refund for taxes they never paid in! THAT is a federal issue not just the state. They can also now get free college tuition while legal citizens have to get loans. While Joe Blow from Canada or France who wants to get a green card or a work visa pays through the nose to go through the legal immigration process and had a dossier on file with DHS and has to sign an affidavit swearing not to apply for any kind of assistance program. Yeah that's fair. So there is a lot more involved than just the fact they are Mexicans or whatever. They suck off our system that we pay for. Granted..the system sucks to begin with but it sure isn't changing ..or is it? Maybe now are welfare system will just start taking on as many indigents and criminals from south of the border as possible...let's dilute the middle class and increase the entitlement class as much as possible. Unbelievable that anyone would just think it has anything to do with race.

 

[alucard13mm]

I think we can all agree that having an extra 10-20 million people won't help our 17 trillion dollar debt, bloated beauracracy and failing/overburden entitlement and welfare system.

 

[Ender]

1. Agree, but most parents work two jobs and can't afford to pay private school on top of the taxes they pay for the public schools.

3. No argument from me there, but the fact is they do exist and people with guns come if you don't pay.

And on point #2, I think you are missing the fact that beautification is relative. As third world immigrants encroach on a neighborhood, that neighborhood becomes less desirable and the more exclusive neighborhoods where the third world immigrants can't afford to move in to become even more desirable than they were before.

On 1- the reason parents work 2 jobs is because of the FED, fractionalization of the dollar, no gold standard, and the redistribution of wealth to Big Corps. Also- homeschool is the answer, not necessarily private schools..

People have never liked immigrants- from the Chinese to the Germans to the Irish- especially the Irish. But THEY are not the problem. The PROBLEM is .gov- from regulation to regulation, driving business out of the country to entitlements, O-care and so forth.

In a free market society many people working HELPS the economy.

So the answer is:

We Must Change the Way the Gov is Operating and go back to a free and independent nation.

 

[Ender]

It's not about Mexicans or their race. They just happen to make up a lot of the illegals. They cost Texas 12 billion dollars a year..or rather illegals in general. I've said it 5 times. Mexican cartels have moved into not just Texas but across the country. They run human trafficking rings. They kidnap children and force them into prostitution. The do it because they can, because illegal immigration is encouraged by their own countries and our politicians and apparently approved of by quite a few on this forum. The ones who do come here for jobs use false of stolen social security cards, they can retire and draw social security of which the companies they work for contribute half. They can draw the minimum if they only work 10 years. Most of them pay NO income tax so your taxes you pay get to take up the slack. Not only that they can claim the earned income credit and get a tax refund for taxes they never paid in! THAT is a federal issue not just the state. They can also now get free college tuition while legal citizens have to get loans. While Joe Blow from Canada or France who wants to get a green card or a work visa pays through the nose to go through the legal immigration process and had a dossier on file with DHS and has to sign an affidavit swearing not to apply for any kind of assistance program. Yeah that's fair. So there is a lot more involved than just the fact they are Mexicans or whatever. They suck off our system that we pay for. Granted..the system sucks to begin with but it sure isn't changing ..or is it? Maybe now are welfare system will just start taking on as many indigents and criminals from south of the border as possible...let's dilute the middle class and increase the entitlement class as much as possible. Unbelievable that anyone would just think it has anything to do with race.

The cartels are funded by the alphabets.

 

[Zippyjuan]

The ones who do come here for jobs use false of stolen social security cards, they can retire and draw social security of which the companies they work for contribute half. They can draw the minimum if they only work 10 years. Most of them pay NO income tax so your taxes you pay get to take up the slack.

If they are using a fake Social Security card to get a job they are paying taxes. If they buy something, they are paying sales tax (if a sales tax applies). If they rent a place to live, they are helping the property owner pay the property taxes on the place. If they buy gas, they are paying the gasoline tax.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=0

Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions

STOCKTON, Calif. - Since illegally crossing the Mexican border into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit. More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez - who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana - contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

Illegal immigration, Marcelo Suárez-Orozco, co-director of immigration studies at New York University, noted sardonically, could provide "the fastest way to shore up the long-term finances of Social Security."

It is impossible to know exactly how many illegal immigrant workers pay taxes. But according to specialists, most of them do. Since 1986, when the Immigration Reform and Control Act set penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, most such workers have been forced to buy fake ID's to get a job.

More at link.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

I think we can all agree that having an extra 10-20 million people won't help our 17 trillion dollar debt, bloated beauracracy and failing/overburden entitlement and welfare system.

Depends on if they are productive members of society or border agents.

 

[amy31416]

It's not about Mexicans or their race. They just happen to make up a lot of the illegals. They cost Texas 12 billion dollars a year..or rather illegals in general. I've said it 5 times. Mexican cartels have moved into not just Texas but across the country. They run human trafficking rings. They kidnap children and force them into prostitution. The do it because they can, because illegal immigration is encouraged by their own countries and our politicians and apparently approved of by quite a few on this forum. The ones who do come here for jobs use false of stolen social security cards, they can retire and draw social security of which the companies they work for contribute half. They can draw the minimum if they only work 10 years. Most of them pay NO income tax so your taxes you pay get to take up the slack. Not only that they can claim the earned income credit and get a tax refund for taxes they never paid in! THAT is a federal issue not just the state. They can also now get free college tuition while legal citizens have to get loans. While Joe Blow from Canada or France who wants to get a green card or a work visa pays through the nose to go through the legal immigration process and had a dossier on file with DHS and has to sign an affidavit swearing not to apply for any kind of assistance program. Yeah that's fair. So there is a lot more involved than just the fact they are Mexicans or whatever. They suck off our system that we pay for. Granted..the system sucks to begin with but it sure isn't changing ..or is it? Maybe now are welfare system will just start taking on as many indigents and criminals from south of the border as possible...let's dilute the middle class and increase the entitlement class as much as possible. Unbelievable that anyone would just think it has anything to do with race.

Hmm. Well it seems that illegals are funding our war machine far less than we are.

Ron Paul's solution makes the most sense to me--end the war machine then I might have more concern about who's sucking at the teat. Until then, I simply can't bring myself to care. The more people sucking the funds, then they can't sustain the bullshit murderous, immoral crap for as long.

Our system is just so goddamned unethical.

 

[Carlybee]

The cartels are funded by the alphabets.

Great...we get bent over twice.

 

[Carlybee]

Hmm. Well it seems that illegals are funding our war machine far less than we are.

Ron Paul's solution makes the most sense to me--end the war machine then I might have more concern about who's sucking at the teat. Until then, I simply can't bring myself to care. The more people sucking the funds, then they can't sustain the bullshit murderous, immoral crap for as long.

Our system is just so goddamned unethical.

Well I care because it's in my back yard.

 

[Carlybee]

If they are using a fake Social Security card to get a job they are paying taxes. If they buy something, they are paying sales tax (if a sales tax applies). If they rent a place to live, they are helping the property owner pay the property taxes on the place. If they buy gas, they are paying the gasoline tax.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=0



More at link.

I can see the billboard now "Illegals - Good for America!" According to Barak Obama, Nancy Pelosi and ZippyJuan!
No problem if these illegals are committing identity theft as long as they are buying Big Gulps and gasoline!

 

[Carlybee]

One more time

Ron Paul on Border Security and Immigration.

From Ron Paul.com:

A nation without borders is no nation at all. After decades of misguided policies America has now become a free-for-all. Our leaders betrayed the middle class which is forced to compete with welfare-receiving illegal immigrants who will work for almost anything, just because the standards in their home countries are even lower.

If these policies are not reversed, the future is grim. A poor, dependent and divided population is much easier to rule than a nation of self-confident individuals who can make a living on their own and who share the traditions and values that this country was founded upon.

Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.

2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.

3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.

4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.

5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.

6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

I will add that RP does believe that there will have to be some sort of temp green card for many of those already here as there is no logistical way to "round them up and deport them" and I agree although I don't see many of them complying because I think they will be afraid to and will just continue to live and work here illegally. I am not for any kind of "rounding up" unless it is criminals.

 

[puppetmaster]

They are not eligible for Federal benefits. The programs listed are state ones. See your state representatives to get them changed.

again error. They are being housed, fed, and provided care and transportation by THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Like i said before, go to the welfare office in your area and ask. They usually will be able to explain, also if you have a Mexican friend as I have they can tell you how to game the system.

If and illegal alien has a child born here they also qualify for sec 8 housing and an entire host of Federal and state benefits. If the get declared refugees then they also qualify for everything. There are many loopholes that get around the ineligible BS you spout.

 

[Dianne]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...-request-billions-to-deal-with-border-crisis/

This is curious, because border agents have said while the children are flooding in via one root; they have served as a distraction to other roots that are being used by the drug cartels and potential terrorists. One agent witnessed the Department of Homeland Security actually unlocking and opening gates along the path of the drug cartels. How will Rand Paul vote on this 2 billion dollar request to cover things like this which by the way does not appear to be for children?

The DHS Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) requires the following items, Purchase Description Determined by Line Item, to the following:

LI 001: White 100% Cotton Men's Briefs Size: Medium Per Dozen, 600, DZ;

LI 002: White 100% Cotton Men's Briefs Size: Large Per Dozen, 600, DZ;

LI 003: White 100% Cotton Men's Briefs Size: X-Large Per Dozen, 600, DZ;

LI 004: White 100% Cotton Men's Briefs Size: 2X-Large Per Dozen, 400, DZ;

LI 005: White 100% Cotton Men's Briefs Size: 3X-Large Per Dozen, 400, DZ;

LI 006: White 100% Cotton Men's Briefs Size: 4X-Large Per Dozen, 400, DZ;

LI 007: White 100% Cotton Men's Briefs Size: 5X-Large Per Dozen, 300, DZ;

LI 008: White 100% Cotton Men's Briefs Size: 6X-Large Per Dozen, 200, DZ;


In my view, the 2 billion should come out of the Department of Homeland Security budget since they are orchestrating the invasion.

President Barack Obama will ask Congress on Monday for emergency funds, possibly more than $2 billion, as the United States grapples with a surge of undocumented children and adults crossing the border from Mexico.

A White House official told CNN the money will go to securing appropriate space for the detention of children but also stemming the tide of immigrants. The government hopes to increase its ability to investigate and dismantle smuggling organizations as well as quickly return children and adults to their home countries if they do not qualify for asylum.

 

[sylcfh]

Your US-born neighbor votes RepubliCrat, doesn't care about the Bill of Rights, and probably thinks America should be the world police. I have absolutely zero difference in opinion of them than I do illegals getting tax money. I don't excuse idiocy by accident of birth.

Legalize drugs, and take the power away from the cartels.

 

[Ender]

Your US-born neighbor votes RepubliCrat, doesn't care about the Bill of Rights, and probably thinks America should be the world police. I have absolutely zero difference in opinion of them than I do illegals getting tax money. I don't excuse idiocy by accident of birth.

Legalize drugs, and take the power away from the cartels.

Absolutely.