Are Property Taxes Unethical?

[cbc58]

I am not going to argue that there should be property taxes - but how would local govt's and schools survive without them? what is your alternative?

What should be illegal is huge discounts on taxes for property in "current use". That is the scam of the century that large property owners have conned the public into buying. Get rid of that and taxes would drop for everyone else...

 

[KrokHead]

Property taxes wouldn't be as big of a problem if Americans weren't dummies and kept increasing their school budgets.

 

[erowe1]

I am not going to argue that there should be property taxes - but how would local govt's and schools survive without them? what is your alternative?

If you think that any schools at all should be funded by taking any money at all from any people at all against their will using any means at all, then you're coming from a different perspective from the people who answered the poll with a yes.

 

[oyarde]

Is that true (I don't know off the top of my head)? What will they do if you don't pay income tax?

Say I do not pay my state tax, they will send you shitty letters, file a lien, say I do not pay my seatbelt fine , they do not come and take my vehicle ... if I do not renew my license plate , they do nothing ....

 

[erowe1]

say I do not pay my seatbelt fine , they do not come and take my vehicle

I once had a ticket for a burned out light that required me to get it fixed and send in some kind of form saying I did, which I didn't do. My car's tag numbers were marked in the police data base as a car to impound next time I got pulled over, which happened soon after.

 

[otherone]

There should be 0% primary residence property tax.

I could see a luxury tax on non-primary residences. This would keep the people afraid of land/property hoarders at bay.

Personally, I have no problem with capital gains taxes, as investment is voluntary. I have no problem with corporate taxes, as incorporating is voluntary. Taxing wages is slavery. Taking possession of private property as a consequence of failure to pay taxes only shows who ultimately owns the property.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I am not going to argue that there should be property taxes - but how would local govt's and schools survive without them? what is your alternative?

What should be illegal is huge discounts on taxes for property in "current use". That is the scam of the century that large property owners have conned the public into buying. Get rid of that and taxes would drop for everyone else...

WRT this^^ and all similar questions, just donate money directly to the "cause", whatever it is. Do you know it's already possible to make "patriotic donations" to the IRS? No reason you can't do that for your local and state treasuries.

 

[oyarde]

I once had a ticket for a burned out light that required me to get it fixed and send in some kind of form saying I did, which I didn't do. My car's tag numbers were marked in the police data base as a car to impound next time I got pulled over, which happened soon after.

Where I am they will give you a warning ticket, if you do not fix it , they get you again , a ticket.

 

[EBounding]

It's about as absurd as the income tax. It's the same principle. Tax land just because you own it and tax your money just because you make it.

On the other hand, renting doesn't really help you avoid that. There's a reason rent rates are as high as they are. Part of that is property taxes. Renting is way more expensive no matter how you look at it, and it gives you no security, whereas owning a home provides you with stability, more rights, and it's also just cheaper in most cases. Renting is for those who can't afford to buy and prefer to be slaves all their lives just to pay for a place to live. They could lose it at a moment's notice (relatively) but at least they have a roof over their head... for now.

I hate to sound like I'm defending the income tax, but your earnings are just taxed once whereas your property is taxed every year forever. If I keep my money under the mattress or in a 0% yield account, it's not going to be taxed again, except when I die I guess.

It's true that renting doesn't help you avoid property taxes, but it kind of "smooths out" the tax payments and large surprises (maintenance, repairs, price fluctuations). You can get similar security by getting a long-term lease. Plus there is the benefit of being able to move quickly. Of course, I have to pay a premium to the landlord (his profit) for this service. But for me, it's better than pouring all my money and retirement savings into an illiquid building that I don't expect to be in 3 years from now.

That's just my situation though. Not saying buying a house is always bad, but pretty much everything about "owning" a house involves rent. You rent the land from the city/state through property taxes, you rent the mortgage money from the bank, and you have to pay the rent-seeking REALTOR® cartel to buy/sell the house. Plus the asset you own won't necessarily appreciate in value.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Is that true (I don't know off the top of my head)? What will they do if you don't pay income tax?

The confiscate your person and give you a new home.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Say I do not pay my state tax, they will send you shitty letters, file a lien, say I do not pay my seatbelt fine , they do not come and take my vehicle ... if I do not renew my license plate , they do nothing ....

I got a letter once from the IRS saying that I owed them money from a couple of years previously (not sure why) and if I didn't pay up in a week, they would seize my property. It went on to explain that they would first seize my state taxes, and only if that didn't cover it would they seize my property. Needless to say the IRS got their $500+ post haste!

Interesting how now the IRS can seize taxes paid to the state...

I've had my car impounded for expired emission stickers and an expired licence.

I once had a ticket for a burned out light that required me to get it fixed and send in some kind of form saying I did, which I didn't do. My car's tag numbers were marked in the police data base as a car to impound next time I got pulled over, which happened soon after.

Number of years ago had a roomie, who asked if he could use my car from time to time. Grocery shopping - stuff like that. I said I'd think about it and talk to my insurance company. They said no problem. They would send out a 2 page forum and depending on what it says their might be a slight raise in my rates. OK, so I get the forum and roomie takes a look at it, crumples it up and tosses it saying fuck that!. I didn't think anything more of it until my insurance didn't auto-renew, I got a notice that my licence plates were being revoked. So I went down to the MVA to try and figure out what's up... hours and hours of waiting in lines and on the phone, it turns out that failing to return that forum blocks your automatic renewal of insurance. It also turns out that the MVA and cops have direct access to the insurance company database...

Took a couple of full days to straighten out ans some serious cash and BS...



-t

 

[jabowery]

In the state of nature (society prior to binding contract or gang-like associations) an individual has the ability to defend what might be called his "natural property" against the aggression of other individual males, as does any animal defend access to the vital necessities. It is reasonable to interpret this, in modern terms, as exclusive access to enough land to raise children to viable adult hood.

Therefore when individuals enter into what Spooner calls a "mutual insurance company" for the protection of their property rights beyond "natural property" against other gang-like associations, the terms of that contract are entirely voluntary, and the individual's stake in the company may be considered to include his natural property under whatever terms to which he voluntarily agrees.

This has the effect, in practice, of sorting proponents of political theories into governments that test them.

 

[oyarde]

The confiscate your person and give you a new home.

Which would be fairly retarded in itself if you think about it .They have relieved you of further income for them to bleed and now pay to house you instead.Where is the math logic in that ??

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Which would be fairly retarded in itself if you think about it .They have relieved you of further income for them to bleed and now pay to house you instead.Where is the math logic in that ??

It keeps the other sheep docile, and happy enough to be shorn. They think they're free.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Which would be fairly retarded in itself if you think about it .They have relieved you of further income for them to bleed and now pay to house you instead.Where is the math logic in that ??

Well, lets see. They steal your home, sell it for a windfall profit, and then extort whoever moves in or they repeat the cycle.

House you where? In the projects? They aren't going to pay too much to do that, and the state probably gets the feds to pay for most of it.

-t

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Well, lets see. They steal your home, sell it for a windfall profit, and then extort whoever moves in or they repeat the cycle.

House you where? In the projects? They aren't going to pay too much to do that, and the state probably gets the feds to pay for most of it.

-t

Federal Penitentiary.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Which would be fairly retarded in itself if you think about it .They have relieved you of further income for them to bleed and now pay to house you instead.Where is the math logic in that ??

If you are looking for logic in that nonsense, don't ask me.

 

[fisharmor]

If you are looking for logic in that nonsense, don't ask me.

It makes perfect sense as long as you never put a moment's thought into whether the system is at all sustainable.
In just about three decades of paying attention, I've never known the state in general to be much concerned with that.

 

[DamianTV]

Its ridiculously unethical. A society that can not own land can never be free.

Not just Land, but ANY form of Property. The basis on which our Rights are founded is that You Own Yourself.

If one has to pay a tax on any form of property, the result is that one does not truly own their property, but merely rent or borrow from the Real Owners. Sales Tax is one thing. A tax on the transaction of the sale of a product (not service, that is to claim ownership of the labor that one performs). But once a thing is owned outright, no further taxes can be imposed without declaring the owner to not be the real owner.

This also applies to Income Tax. Income Tax operates under the fallacy that you do not own the labor that you do, thus, the Govt is entitled to your work, making you a slave to the Govt. It doesnt matter if they take 0.0001% of your income, or 100%. If you can not claim 100% ownership of your possessions or the work that you do, then you do not Own Yourself and are thereby in definition, a Slave, which is the polar opposite of Free.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

And if we paid directly for a teacher, then they would remember who they work for. Instead, they seem to think they are in control and that they work for the gov (who is that?) instead of us.