Are Liberals Welcome?

I think we've got to consider the fact that a lot of Dems have supported HR 1207 and even admit to ourselves that a self-described socialist put S 604 up for the Senate.

Most of the left and right agree on the foundations, we just continually nitpick over the specifics. If we focus on our economy and our foreign policy, we have a hell of a lot in common with the left-wing, who are, like drteeth, getting rather fed up with the continuation and expansion of Bush's policies by Obama.

We can argue domestic policy after we do something to save the country from a complete collapse, ala the Roman Empire.

Even then, most of us have to admit that we have a lot in common with liberals because the majority of us are for marijuana legalization, gay marriage, an end to the tyrannical police state.

I truly think that the only things that separate us are abortion and the 2nd Amendment. I'll give on abortion because, while I think it's wrong, I also recognize that making it illegal isn't the answer.

I won't give on the 2nd Amendment though, and I don't think that anyone with a thorough understanding of it would either. :)
 
To Dr. Teeth -

Please recognize that there are people here who are not representative of Ron Paul's viewpoints, or the viewpoints of liberty. I don't know much about your political background, but there are many members here who are sympathetic to the views of Kucinich, as well as sympathizers of Palin. A lot of people are neither...I'm just pointing out the diversity of viewpoints that exist here.

There are also a lot of people who have a VAST amount of knowledge on the subjects of economics, American and World history, and (especially) political philosophy. I hope you will take advantage of these unique resources that we have to offer here, despite the work required to extract the good information from the rest.

Some good websites to visit if you haven't already (don't worry if you don't immediately agree with everything you see):

www.mises.org

www.ronpaullibrary.org

www.lewrockwell.com

www.campaignforliberty.com

www.yaliberty.org

If you have any questions about the forums or about the philosophy of liberty, don't hesitate to contact me via private message (just click on my name).

Welcome!
 
Liberty Star said:
Pro freedom libs are welcome. Neoconish , pro elective bloodshed liberals while do need our love ( love the criminal, hate the crime ) and more than that they need education but technically they could be shunned.
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I'm definitely not neoconish. I don't believe the United States is an empire, and we shouldn't be exerting our influence anywhere. Our system of government will be a good example, but that is the extent of it. When it comes to military force, I don't believe military force is to ever be used as a tool of influence. Redefining the word defense, doesn't make it ok. I don't believe the government should be pro-growth, or supply side focused economically. They shouldn't be choosing sides.
 
Welcome aboard. As it has been said, there is a lot of disagreement among the libertarians here, but I think almost all of us oppose the wars and the outrageous government spending. You will certainly read some frustrating posts, but I'm sure you would also if you were visiting a message board for Democrats and liberals.

As for the free reign of corporations, I think you'll find they have gained their power because government got in bed with them. As Ayn Rand said, "capitalists with government help are the worst of all economic phenomenon".
 
dr teeth said:
I'm definitely not neoconish. I don't believe the United States is an empire, and we shouldn't be exerting our influence anywhere. Our system of government will be a good example, but that is the extent of it. When it comes to military force, I don't believe military force is to ever be used as a tool of influence. Redefining the word defense, doesn't make it ok. I don't believe the government should be pro-growth, or supply side focused economically. They shouldn't be choosing sides.
Click to expand...

I was joking about last part :)

You are welcome.

If it were upto me, anyone and everyone would be always welcome here regardless of political stripes. Collision of ideas and civil discourse is always a good thing.
 
Yes, you're certainly welcome here. It's a big tent. But like you've already noticed, you have to wade through the truthers and the birthers sometimes. Those of us that have been here a while tend to sort of just leave them to their ways, and they leave us to ours. That's the whole "freedom" thing in action.

Ron Paul has said they follow him because they know that if he was elected, he'd leave them alone. He's also said that he doesn't believe in the inside-job theory, however he does believe that government institutions are covering up inefficiencies, ineptness and bureaucracies. When asked directly whether he supported the theories of "truthers" he responded with "absolutely not".

I don't know that he's made a statement on the birth certificate thing, but if it's any consolation I don't believe any of it's true. If it were, Hillary would have dug it up. If not her, then McCain.
 
You are welcome here, by all means.
You will see all sorts of tangential opinions and wacky arguments over irrelevant issues. Lots of differing personalities and communication skills give this place great entertainment value.

I left the democratic party because the democratic party left me.
The republican party lost its roots too and left me with another glowing disappointment.

Both have merged into the republicrat party where "More of the same" is the standard,
with little variance from the plans to tax and spend irresponsibly.

Makes me crazy!

This healthcare reform is just plain silliness...and I am still not convinced that this is not just another distraction from bigger issues.

Seriously, there are no people dying in the streets.
I believe we need to have a system, where an individual has access to necessary health care services.
Click to expand...
Everyone in this nation DOES have access to these treatments.
The problem is that everyone is so wrapped up in having insurance, a big racket in itself; they forget one can easily negotiate with these healthcare providers for self-funded treatments and save like shopping at geico...lol

Anyway, welcome aboard...
The time of partisan politics is rapidly fading away as more Americans like ourselves wake up to the fact that a deep rooted problem exists in DC and it is not solely attributed to the figurehead POTUS, it is the representatives we need to rein in.

A changing of the guard if approaching…it is up to us to make sure we do not end up with a new face for the same old thievery and deceit.
 
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Welcome to the forums! This place is great if you are wanting to debate on topics, or just read and learn at the same time. There are a lot of intellectual people here who analyze politics and current events and give many different perspectives. I have learned so much on these forums. Its a great place to visit :)
 
dr teeth,

I've worked with LOTS of left-right-libertarian coalitions for several years on many topics. There is a lot of common ground for
  • open, accountable government (transparency, whistleblower protection, FOIA, 1207, etc.),
  • against corporate welfare (there is much of it in the cap and trade bill as well as the health care ones--and military spending, and export promotion, and ....),
  • a non-interventionist foreign policy (neocons need not apply), and
  • privacy and civil liberties and the rule of law

So, yes, welcome! :)

EDIT: Oh, and I still consider myself a liberal, in the Old Taft sense--he called himself an "old-fashioned liberal" to differentiate himself from the FDR variety.
 
dr teeth said:
I have followed Ron Paul for awhile now, and I have grown increasingly frustrated with the Democratic Party. I wouldn't say I'm implicitly a small government person, but I am against the government transferring trillions of dollars recklessly. Whether it is the Republicans spending on defense or private contractors, or it is the Democrats creating enormous domestic infrastructure funds, the end result is defrauding the tax payers. Even with the best of intentions, this money enters a political system wrought with corruption.

That said, I don't believe in free reign for huge corporations. Corporations aren't people, and should come second to the needs of American citizens. I don't believe in legislating morality in any fashion, other than the protection of an individual's rights. To me the bounds of liberty are only the direct infringement on another's liberty.

I already see birther posts, so I may be in the wrong place. I firmly believe the burden of proof rests with the accuser and not the accused. The politics of personal destruction disgust me, and people using unproven conspiracies to overturn the will of the people is obviously cheap exploitation of xenophobia and racial tensions in our nation. I don't like anyone, who is more interested in political division, than actual issue based agendas.

That said we do have real problems in this country, and my confidence in the Democratic Party has been shaken. Since the bailouts of banks, I've grown very cynical about the integrity of congress. Even with this health care reform debate, I doubt whether the honest interests of American citizens are being advanced. I believe we need to have a system, where an individual has access to necessary health care services. Right now these insurance companies are committing extortion on our nation. I'm not sure the government is a better option, but something needs fixed somewhere.

I have a lot of other opinions, but I was wondering whether this is a place I can learn and share potential solutions for the problems that we all face.
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I'll probably end up vehemently disagreeing with you on a number of issues, but you're definitely welcome here in my book. :) You won't see a lot of liberals here (almost any) anymore, since most have either become far more libertarian as time has gone on (sometimes all the way into hardcore anarcho-capitalism), or they've gotten sick of their polar opposites here and left for safer forums. We definitely need more fresh meat...errr, fresh blood...well, you know. At the very least, we need more borderline normal people to dilute some of the ugliness. As Brian4Liberty said, it's going to take some thick skin. I suggest avoiding the Hot Topics forum if you're pregnant, over forty, or have heart problems.

Seriously though, try not to get discouraged by some of the ugly stuff you see though. There are ALL types of posters here. That includes some really intelligent people, and it also includes people who will fit any possible definition you might have for the term "lunatic fringe" (and that's coming from someone with a pretty narrow definition of the latter...). The only thing we all really have in common is wanting to shrink the size of the federal government.

Basically, Andrew-Austin's post below is right: I'm basically trying to not scare you off...and to warn you that it's going to take some resolve not to be scared off. The moderators here have some pretty legendary patience for certain jaw-dropping tripe that would earn instant perma-bans almost anywhere else.
 
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summary translations of some of the posts in here:

--"Sssh, no one scare him away by saying something radical."

--"Dr. Teeth please don't make generalizations about libertarians based on some of the d-bags on this forum that I happen to disagree with".

amy pie said:
I won't give on the 2nd Amendment though, and I don't think that anyone with a thorough understanding of it would either.
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Dr. Teeth if you pick just one issue to debate the forum's consensus on, make it about the right to bear arms. It will be a blast for us, and a good introductory look in to the mind of a libertarian regarding 'unintended consequences', individual rights, class conflict, and all sorts of meaty topics.
 
Oh, and I'll add one more bonus to this site over many "liberal" sites--you can pretty much say whatever you want, as long as you aren't inciting violence or just throwing out stupid ad hominem attacks.

Our mods/admins are pretty damned great.
 
jmlfod87 said:
Yes, of course liberals are welcome on this forum. Just be warned that the more you read these boards the less likely you are to remain a liberal.

Here are some good starting points for your conversion:

www.lewrockwell.com

www.mises.org

www.reason.com
Click to expand...

I would avoid Mises.org forums. Mises.org is great as a reference, but you're better off learning theory here rather than the forums over there. Here, they don't wear their underwear quite so tight.
 
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