Anyone else here pro-choice?

[John_Haigh]

This is a really tough issue.

We have to be careful not to fall into the trap of arguing by extrapolation and end up debating "How many angels can dance on a pin head."

Late term abortions of a viable foetus are clearly very close to murder. Very early abortions are equally clearly not murder in my opinion.

Where to draw the line? It takes the wisdom of Solomon and I just don't have that.

By the way, there is a movie that tackles this subject very beautifully. It's called Juno and I recommend watching it if you need 90 minutes to relax and recharge from your Ron Paul campaigning efforts.

 

[SeekLiberty]

I'm Pro Do-What's-Right according to each individual situation.

- SL

 

[silence is betrayal]

I'm Pro Do-What's-Right according to each individual situation.

- SL

I agree with this.

 

[ThreeFireflies]

Abortion

Let's put it this way. What do you think of dismembering a baby who can feel everything you do, then puncturing his skull and sucking his brains out? If he'd been, say, one week older, you'd have gone to prison for life for doing exactly the same thing. People are so easily led that half of them don't see anything bizarre in that situation. They just follow the rules, just follow the rules.

 

[ThreeFireflies]

Abortion

Let's put it this way. What do you think of dismembering a baby who can feel everything you do, then puncturing his skull and sucking his brains out? If he'd been, say, one week older, you'd have gone to prison for life for doing exactly the same thing. People are so easily led that half of them don't see anything bizarre in that situation. They just follow the rules, just follow the rules.

 

[johngr]

I think abortions should be mandatory.

 

[hypnagogue]

I support abortion up the point where brain activity begins.

 

[Gustogus]

I'd like to see these pro-choicers watch an ultrasound of an abortion taking place as the baby backs away from the vacuum and fights for its life and see the ripped and torn fetus sucked into a jar, and see how feel then.

.

3rd trimester abortions are already illegal. LEts keep the discussion rational. You keep making this personal.

What are your feeligns on contraception? Imagine all the children we've prevented from being born by use of the condom....or even pulling out!. You could have been pooled in your moms navel, Imagine the millions of lives LOST! Does that raise within you the same disdain?

If not, then leave the "Denying someone a chance at life" argument at the door.

What your left with is the strictly valid legal argument of when to legally recognize life. On this point I can understand the pro-life POV, especially as science progresses to allow the unborn to live at earlier and earlier stages of development, but as it stands, without the mother's uterus to carry it to term a child will not survive born before the third trimester (in most cases).

Which raises the next point, how far are you willing to go to protect this unborn child... We make laws to prevent adults from giving children cigarettes and beer, does that mean we shoudl make laws preventign pregnant women from smoking and drinking?

Yes?

Ok, now we know that the greatest harm comes from alcohol and tobacco within the first month of pregnancy...so do we make laws preventing sexually active women from smoking and drinking? I mean..its for the good of the children and all...

MY point is, theres a very grey area that falls somewhere between the act of copulation and granting a new person complete protections under the law. Abortion is the fight for that grey area, and if you claim its black and white, you just haven't thought it through.

 

[jgmaynard]

I'm certainly pro-choice in the first tri-mester, and pro-life in the 3rd. My problem comes in during the second.

And we make decisions about the life or death of family members every day in this country - just six months ago, my father (who was my best friend) was suffering and losing his mind slowly dying in a hospital and I had to make the decision to pull the plug. Maybe that makes me evil, but I knew he wouldn't want to live the way he was and it was the hardest decision I ever made. I miss him every day, but if I had to do it again, I would.

JM

 

[boethius27]

My ex wife and I aborted a child while we were together. It sucked, but the option to do it was a wonderful benefit. Do I feel bad? Yes, but I am still pro-choice. I wouldn't have been able to finish grad school and thus would not have been able to give my future child the same benefits that I will now be able to offer. I took a potential life, but I'm giving a future life a much better lifestyle.

Make what you will of that, but either way, Ron Paul's view on everything else simply over powers his pro-life stance.

 

[CitizenPlain]

What is Pro-choice?

The right to Kill or not to Kill ?

Kill who? If we are talking another individual,

then, No you don't have that right.

If you are talking of yourself, Yes you do have

that right. Life, Liberty. and pursuit of happinaess.

Do anything you like as long as you don't harm

another individual.

Especially the helpless!

 

[IHaveaDream]

I am also pro-choice, but only because I think the issue is much too complicated to be determined by dogmatism. I believe the taking of a human life should always be approached with deep regret, whether it's abortion, war, capital punishment, etc.

 

[Kade]

I support abortion up the point where brain activity begins.

That is my position as well.

 

[derdy]

Formerly, pro-choice when it came to early stage abortions and very much against the death penalty.

Thanks to Dr. Paul, I really thought about the issue of life and now I don't support the early abortions and I still don't support the death penalty.

We should treat human life with respect.

It's definitely a state issue and I'm not someone that will bash you over the head for being pro-choice. Influence by example and sound, logical arguments.

 

[austinchick]

I feel that 'pro-choice' is a phrase that was coined to minimize the real meaning of abortion.
I file that phrase with other 'code' type of slang/words that when spoken, they key in a certain emotion in people.
Similar 'emotion-on-a-cue' words/phrases are:
islamofascists, war on terror, long-shot candidate, weapons of mass distruction, woman right to choose, etc....

 

[Kade]

I feel that 'pro-choice' is a phrase that was coined to minimize the real meaning of abortion.
I file that phrase with other 'code' type of slang/words that when spoken, they key in a certain emotion in people.
Similar 'emotion-on-a-cue' words/phrases are:
islamofascists, war on terror, long-shot candidate, weapons of mass distruction, woman right to choose, etc....

Irony. See, I happen to think "Pro-Life" was a term that meant to minimize the real meaning of anti-choice.

"I cannot project the degree of hatred required to make those women run around in crusades against abortion. Hatred is what they certainly project, not love for the embryos, which is a piece of nonsense no one could experience, but hatred, a virulent hatred for an unnamed object. Judging by the degree of those women's intensity, I would say that it is an issue of self-esteem and that their fear is metaphysical. Their hatred is directed against human beings as such, against the mind, against reason, against ambition, against success, against love, against any value that brings happiness to human life. In compliance with the dishonesty that dominates today's intellectual field, they call themselves "pro-life.""


and some others by Ayn Rand:

"One method of destroying a concept is by diluting its meaning. Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives."

"A man who takes it upon himself to prescribe how others should dispose of their own lives - and who seeks to condemn them by law, i.e., by force, to the drudgery of an unchosen, lifelong servitude (which, more often than not, is beyond their economic means or capacity) - such a man has no right to pose as a defender of rights. A man with so little concern or respect for the rights of the individual, cannot and will not be a champion of freedom or of capitalism."

"Never mind the vicious nonsense of claiming that an embryo has a 'right to life.' A piece of protoplasm has no rights -— and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months. To equate a potential with an actual, is vicious; to advocate the sacrifice of the latter to the former, is unspeakable."

 

[markj]

I am 100% Pro-Choice for such things as self determination, employment, where I live, how I live, how I worship (or not), What I eat, what I drink, what I ingest of anything, what I wear, what I earn, what I spend, what I drive, where I drive, what I carry on my person for protection, who I associate with, what establishments I trade with, what I trade with, what entertainment I participate in or as a spectator, who I vote for, what I vote for.

Other than that and maybe a few that I forgot, I am 100% Pro-Life. No killing of the innocent. Deny the state the power over life and death for it will be abused. There is no gray area there. Give the state power and it will abuse it period so I am 100% against the death penalty.

The baby is not to blame for the rape or for the unwanted nature of itself. It just is. It has committed no crime or harmed anyone else. It is life. Life is precious. When life ceases to be precious you get what we have now. A penchant for war, destruction and tens of millions of human lives snuffed out for purely selfish reasons.

Sometimes I think we deserve extinction. <- Sometimes.

 

[Kade]

I am 100% Pro-Choice for such things as self determination, employment, where I live, how I live, how I worship (or not), What I eat, what I drink, what I ingest of anything, what I wear, what I earn, what I spend, what I drive, where I drive, what I carry on my person for protection, who I associate with, what establishments I trade with, what I trade with, what entertainment I participate in or as a spectator, who I vote for, what I vote for.

Other than that and maybe a few that I forgot, I am 100% Pro-Life. No killing of the innocent. Deny the state the power over life and death for it will be abused. There is no gray area there. Give the state power and it will abuse it period so I am 100% against the death penalty.

The baby is not to blame for the rape or for the unwanted nature of itself. It just is. It has committed no crime or harmed anyone else. It is life. Life is precious. When life ceases to be precious you get what we have now. A penchant for war, destruction and tens of millions of human lives snuffed out for purely selfish reasons.

Sometimes I think we deserve extinction. <- Sometimes.

So you are for making a law limiting other people's choices. They disagree with you, that a fetus has a right to a woman's body, has a right to life, because it is unborn, and you say, screw your opinion, screw your choice, I'm for limiting it with the government, because I happen to think cell life is important.


Don't pretend you thought too much about it.

Why are you not mourning the millions of unattached blastocysts that fall out of the incubator you call a vagina every day?

"One method of destroying a concept is by diluting its meaning. Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives."

 

[Theocrat]

"Pro-Choice?" More Like Pro-Hypocrite

Pro-death advocates (AKA "pro-choice") are for the "right" of an individual to do this, but they are against our government's "right" to do this. Yeah, real consistent, indeed...

 

[Kade]

Pro-death advocates (AKA "pro-choice") are for the "right" of an individual to do this, but they are against our government's "right" to do this. Yeah, real consistent, indeed...

My workplace blocks both the sites. I can only imagine that you dug them out of the fringe. Putting your fingers in your ears and screaming about what you think we are, does not chance a damn thing. Go read a book.