Warrior_of_Freedom
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Just curious to see if we are taking any away from his momentum.
Any old McCain supporters here?
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jlaker
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Warrior_of_Freedom
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Just curious. Why did you decide to switch to Dr. Paul?
Because I've been preaching about how horrible the government has become to just about everyone I know, then I found Ron Paul and I almost shit my pants
Because I've been preaching about how horrible the government has become to just about everyone I know, then I found Ron Paul and I almost shit my pants
Does a supporter from 8 years ago count?
Thomas Paine
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Yes I was until he wanted to grant amnesty. Now he wants a 100 year war we can't afford.
I fail to see how he can be leading here in AZ after that stunt or his current war position.
I am so disgusted with people not opening their eyes on how bad he would be for the US.
I fail to see how he can be leading here in AZ after that stunt or his current war position.
I am so disgusted with people not opening their eyes on how bad he would be for the US.
Mental Dribble
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HE DOES NOT WANT AMNESTY!
REGAN granted Amnesty.
We get all over people when they use the wrong words to label Paul (Isolationist, etc) Please do not do it to other candidates.
IF you dont like his plan to pay a 5k fine, to go to the back of the line and to have to learn english ok great, thats your choice. But do not label his plan something it is not.
Anyway, I kinda liked him back 8 years ago before he jumped on the War Monger crowd.
ValidusCustodiae
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The immigration reform bill he co-sponsored would have granted Z visas to illegal aliens (Z visa = permanent ticket to stay). He's been repeatedly confronted about this, to which he always replies "It's not amnesty". He thinks that by charging them fines they are being held accountable for illegally violating our borders.
Mental Dribble
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The Z Visa is a work permit that costs 3,500-4,000 every time its renewed. Its good for 3-4 years and requires a command of the English language.
If you like it or don't thats fine. But its NOT Amnesty.
amnesty
noun
1. a period during which offenders are exempt from punishment
2. a warrant granting release from punishment for an offense
Paying large fines, learning English just to bd put into the back of the line, is far from Amnesty.
I have no strong opinions on this topic but I don't think its fair for us to get upset over people calling Paul an isolationist and then we turn around and use the wrong word to label someone else's position.
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It is amnesty.
"1. a period during which offenders are exempt from punishment "
The punishment for ILLEGALLY coming to this country is to be deported, not to pay fines. You'd have a case if he was using these for people LEGALLY entering this country.
Your logic is wrong because there is NO punishment. The things you mention are essentially the requirements to come to this country ANYWAYS. The difference is they are jumping ahead of LEGIT people in the line to get in this country. Beyond that, what is so much better about these people than those that try to come here legally? Why wasn't a bill sponsored by mccain for them? It's amnesty, plain and simple.
Mental Dribble
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Thats not correct. Thats what YOU want the punishment to be. The law is not so cut and dry.
Furthermore a large recurring fine and requirements to learn English if you are going to be able to stay IS a punishment.
And no one ever said they are then the ones who came here legally. Like I said, I dont have strong feelings on this topic but we need to be accurate with the words we us to label people.
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Uhhh, it's a crime. You're still REWARDING the behavior, are you this daft? So why would ANYONE apply legally and wait up to 4 years?
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
* Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
* Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
* Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
What about up to six months in prison is "not cut and dry". Are you serious? What you're advocating is simply like saying "Well I know you broke the law, and cut ahead of the line, but we're going to let you do WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE ANYWAYS".
* Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
* Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
* Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
What about up to six months in prison is "not cut and dry". Are you serious? What you're advocating is simply like saying "Well I know you broke the law, and cut ahead of the line, but we're going to let you do WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE ANYWAYS".
Mental Dribble
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Yes it is a CRIME. My response was that the punishment for that specific crime does not always call for deportation.
Think refugees from cuba... If they make land fall they get to stay...
And do not call me daft, considering you've obviously know nothing about the actual laws involved here.
Mental Dribble
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Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison.
No were does it say deportation or any SPECIFIC and REQUIRED punishments. It gives possible recourse and possible punishment.
"up to"
"are punishable"
not
Will be punished by.... or must be punished by...
No were does it say deportation or any SPECIFIC and REQUIRED punishments. It gives possible recourse and possible punishment.
"up to"
"are punishable"
not
Will be punished by.... or must be punished by...
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I've seen the law in practice, just not with ILLEGAL immigrants. IE my best friend who LEGALLY came to this country from haiti. He missed signing his last paper before becoming a citizen and was held in jail for SIX months, THEN DEPORTED. So yeah, I do have a good idea how it works. We've spent the last year or so trying to get it reversed.
Regadless you are daft, it's AMNESTY. You're trying to act like you think it's illegal, but that fines and learning english are a fair punishment. I'm saying, THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS ANYWAYS. No one is misrepresenting Mr. Mccains views, IT'S AMNESTY. You want the punishment changed? Fine, but these people came in ILLEGALLY under the OLD LAWS. So they'd be grandfathered in, so to speak.
Warrior_of_Freedom
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seriously, you've been calling me a troll in any thread I post/make, Fuck off.
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