Animal Rights?

[Andrew-Austin]

I think we should be changing the ways we treat farm animals in this country, their basically being tortured from cradle to grave. Nothing wrong with eating them, just treat them with some kind of standard. All life must be respected.

 

[jason43]

Yeah, but your happy for your tax money to be used for human rights. My point is that you can't draw an distinction between humans and animals, other than that which is objectively observed. The problem is that people draw distinctions based on the propaganda they get whilst living in their religious box.

I am not religious.

If its cool to kill cows, then why is it any different for any other animal aside from peoples personal feelings about certain animals over others? Animals are personal property based on the fact that they can be bought and sold. If you arent down with that, then become a vegan and stop wearing leather shoes, belts, etc.

 

[jason43]

I think we should be changing the ways we treat farm animals in this country, their basically being tortured from cradle to grave. Nothing wrong with eating them, just treat them with some kind of standard. All life must be respected.

Farm animals wouldn't even exist without our need to eat them and use their products. They distroy the natural environment because they were put into the food chain by us. Whether you go out and pet the cows every day till you eat them is irrelevent.

 

[AutoDas]

Just because we are more evolved than cows or dogs doesn't mean we can be cruel to animals. The only people who think animals have rights are those that want humans to be treated like animals.

 

[katjust]

Farm animals wouldn't even exist without our need to eat them and use their products. They distroy the natural environment because they were put into the food chain by us. Whether you go out and pet the cows every day till you eat them is irrelevent.

What is your point? So what if they wouldn't exist without us. Neither would our children. That doesn't mean we can beat them.

Also, we don't NEED to eat animals, nor use their products. Just ask any vegan who is walking around the Earth.

Animals are not property, just as children and the mentally handicapped are not property. Rights do not stem from ability to assert them (just look at what we think of children and mentally handicapped). Whether animals have rights, or anyone else for that matter, it is clear to me that they are not mere things to be treated as we wish. They can feel pain, thus they are distinct from any other thing that one might assert to be property. Your house doesn't care if you light it on fire, a dog does. Stop this nonsense with pretending like animals are mere property. There is a very important ethically relevant distinction between them.

I am a libertarian. It is not un-libertarian to view animals as worthy of moral and political consideration.

 

[Tdcci]

Animals are not property, just as children and the mentally handicapped are not property.

Christians seem to think that, look in any homeschooling thread: "I own my kid, not the state, and I have the right to pull them out of any school that teaches them about sex or tolerance!". It's disgusting.

 

[AutoDas]

It's easier to understand animals as a form of responsibility. You are responsible for the well being of the animal you have bought.

 

[thuja]

What is your point? So what if they wouldn't exist without us. Neither would our children. That doesn't mean we can beat them.

Also, we don't NEED to eat animals, nor use their products. Just ask any vegan who is walking around the Earth.

Animals are not property, just as children and the mentally handicapped are not property. Rights do not stem from ability to assert them (just look at what we think of children and mentally handicapped). Whether animals have rights, or anyone else for that matter, it is clear to me that they are not mere things to be treated as we wish. They can feel pain, thus they are distinct from any other thing that one might assert to be property. Your house doesn't care if you light it on fire, a dog does. Stop this nonsense with pretending like animals are mere property. There is a very important ethically relevant distinction between them.

I am a libertarian. It is not un-libertarian to view animals as worthy of moral and political consideration.

thank you for this. i cannot read the ones by people who are ignorant, and the fact that animals ae exploited and tortured makes me cry.
this is the biggest and most important area for human improvement.

 

[Fox McCloud]

Also, we don't NEED to eat animals, nor use their products. Just ask any vegan who is walking around the Earth.

That's not entirely accurate....there's a particular amino acid (IIRC, it may be something else) that is ONLY found in meat...without it, you will eventually die.

Of course, a lot of Vegans will cheat and eat fish (and in really rare cases chicken), so they're covered.

this is the biggest and most important area for human improvement.

While I'm all for treating animals better, I think that solving society's economic crises and battling the UN, collectivism, the NAU, the NWO, etc is of a little bit higher priority that protecting animals.

 

[katjust]

"Of course, a lot of Vegans will cheat and eat fish (and in really rare cases chicken), so they're covered" - Fox McCloud





This is absolutely not true (read the authoritative quote below). I hear this sort of thing often. It is based on misinformation. I know all sorts of vegans, my wife for example (I am a vegetarian, but never eat meat, not fish, not chicken, not any animal). She doesn't cheat. She never eats animal products. She is a healthy mother of one, with another on the way.

The American Dietetic Association states:

"Plant protein can meet requirements when a variety of plant foods is consumed and energy needs are met. Research indicates that an assortment of plant foods eaten over the course of a day can provide all essential amino acids and ensure adequate nitrogen retention and use in healthy adults, thus complementary proteins do not need to be consumed at the same meal."

cited from http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/protein

 

[ryanmkeisling]

That's not entirely accurate....there's a particular amino acid (IIRC, it may be something else) that is ONLY found in meat...without it, you will eventually die.

Of course, a lot of Vegans will cheat and eat fish (and in really rare cases chicken), so they're covered.



While I'm all for treating animals better, I think that solving society's economic crises and battling the UN, collectivism, the NAU, the NWO, etc is of a little bit higher priority that protecting animals.

B12...

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Hi guys,
I just saw this video:

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/43462/9fb16ab3/us_soldaat_gooit_puppy.html

And was wondering what Ron Paul thinks of animal rights.

(It's a sad video).

Animals are not entitled to any rights. You won't leave land alone just because a grizzly calls it home, animals just come with the territory.

 

[katjust]

Animals are not entitled to any rights. You won't leave land alone just because a grizzly calls it home, animals just come with the territory.

why are they not "entitled" to rights? Whether you leave land alone or not is irrelevant. You can't infer an ought from an is like that. I'm not even sure of your argument.

 

[katjust]

B12...

B12 is not an amino acid. It is a vitamin that is synthesized by bacteria. Synthesized vitamin B12 is contained in a variety of vegan foods, and can be obtained as a supplement from non-animal sources.

"Vitamin B-12 cannot be made by plants or animals, as the only type of organism that have the enzymes required for the synthesis of B-12 is bacteria."

"Plants only supply B-12 to humans when the soil containing B-12-producing microorganisms has not been washed from them. Vegan humans who eat only washed vegetables must take special care to supplement their diets accordingly. According to the U.K. Vegan Society, the only reliable vegans sources of B-12 are foods fortified with B-12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals), and B-12 supplements. Fortified breakfast cereals are a particularly valuable source of vitamin B-12 for vegetarians and vegans."

source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B12


Naysayers, I don't know if you just want it to be false, but vegans (as is admitted by the American Dietetic Association and is not scientifically disputed) can obtain all needed nutrients without the aid of any animal products.

Vegan raw foodists (those who eat only raw food not containing animal products) may have an inability to get all nutrients (since they cannot drink soy milk and other fortified foods), but even that is disputed by some. A regular vegan and vegetarian, if they eat a well-rounded enough diet, get more than enough of the required nutrients.

It is insulting to the many dedicated vegans out there to spout this misinformation claiming that they need to eat meat or something. It's simply nonsense that has been disproved decades ago. There are literally hundreds of thousands of these people who are serious about this diet.

 

[Mesogen]

B12...

You can now (and for a while) buy B12 harvested from cultures. You don't need meat for that anymore.

eta:
need to read the whole thread I guess...

 

[Mesogen]

Animals are not entitled to any rights. You won't leave land alone just because a grizzly calls it home, animals just come with the territory.

People like this should be banned.

 

[Fox McCloud]

It is insulting to the many dedicated vegans out there to spout this misinformation claiming that they need to eat meat or something. It's simply nonsense that has been disproved decades ago. There are literally hundreds of thousands of these people who are serious about this diet.

maybe if they would stop cramming down the propaganda that I'm some mass murderer or horrible terrible person for eating eggs, meat, drinking milk, and enjoying some chicken (amongst a plethora of other things), people wouldn't have such an issue with them.

Either way, as I said, I'm not entirely sure which amino acid it was (or if it was even an amino acid) that is not found in vegan diets, so I'd have to find out from my friend, again.

I'll post back here, when I do.

I'm quite the Libertarian (though there's a few issues I'm a little iffy on...but hey, not all Libertarians are the same ). I detest animal cruelty, but I also recognize the danger of assigning rights to animals--there's been several cases where people have lost their homes because of an endangered species--and it's no wonder they take to the "Shoot, shovel, and shutup" ideology--if that law wasn't there, people probably wouldn't do that, as there would be no repercussions for having it on your property.

I'm not sure where Libertarians get the idea that animals have rights...it goes against the majority of Libertarian thinking, not to mention it's mostly a collectivist ideology.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

why are they not "entitled" to rights? Whether you leave land alone or not is irrelevant. You can't infer an ought from an is like that. I'm not even sure of your argument.

Why? Because I'm an anarchist, so who will protect them? lol. You can be their defender if you want, I don't care. Animals are here to eat.

 

[katjust]

Why? Because I'm an anarchist, so who will protect them? lol. You can be their defender if you want, I don't care. Animals are here to eat.

So, because you are an anarchist you don't believe in rights? Who will protect anyone under anarchy? Your position leads to the position that no one has rights, and humans can be ethically eaten, just as well as animals.

Try making an argument instead of inserting "lol" when you disagree with someone.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

So, because you are an anarchist you don't believe in rights? Who will protect anyone under anarchy? Your position leads to the position that no one has rights, and humans can be ethically eaten, just as well as animals.

Try making an argument instead of inserting "lol" when you disagree with someone.

I made "lol" because I think you sound like a liberal idiot.