An Open Letter to the Troops: You’re Not Defending Our Freedoms

[bolil]

Irrelevant

 

[RockEnds]

I don't get why people fight over who does or does not fight for our freedoms on Memorial Day. I don't appreciate the fought for our freedoms meme, but two wrongs don't make a right. Memorial Day is about being dead. That's all. Dying in battle and staying dead. Dead men aren't political. They're dead. For whatever reason in whichever war, the government ordered them to battle, and they went. Maybe they were drafted. Maybe they were drug by their ear. Maybe they were chomping at the bit to go. Maybe they were 14 and trotted off with their buddy not having a clue what lay before them. But dead men tell no tales, and these men are dead. Their mother cried. Their wife became a widow. Their children may have ended up in an orphans home. In more recent times, their husband became a widower. They each have a different story which they will never tell but which contains one common thread. They died.

That's all.

 

[klamath]

What I find also disgusting is people saying we need a civil war here so we can "FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM". Pretty much all the same liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, Libertarian, anarchist, they all love that line. All you have to do is switch the enemy and you can get any one of those groups to start their indoctrinated "FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM" chant. And they all believe to their deepest heart that they are the only ones right.....

 

[muh_roads]

 

[Warlord]

I like his take down of Afghanistan. BS war. Just like Iraq. Pointless.

 

[qh4dotcom]

At this point the military is just a career for people that can't get a decent job. Since getting a decent job is nearly impossible being a mercenary is a good idea.

Defending our freedoms? Nah. Respect the job? Yeah. Does this job help make the world a safer place? Hell no!

It's a career for people who are too incompetent to get a job in the private sector.

 

[qh4dotcom]

I don't get why people fight over who does or does not fight for our freedoms on Memorial Day. I don't appreciate the fought for our freedoms meme, but two wrongs don't make a right. Memorial Day is about being dead. That's all. Dying in battle and staying dead. Dead men aren't political. They're dead. For whatever reason in whichever war, the government ordered them to battle, and they went. Maybe they were drafted. Maybe they were drug by their ear. Maybe they were chomping at the bit to go. Maybe they were 14 and trotted off with their buddy not having a clue what lay before them. But dead men tell no tales, and these men are dead. Their mother cried. Their wife became a widow. Their children may have ended up in an orphans home. In more recent times, their husband became a widower. They each have a different story which they will never tell but which contains one common thread. They died.

That's all.

Besides being a day for celebrating perpetual war like Veteran's day, the other problem with Memorial day is that only the military is remembered.

In other countries, everyone who has died gets remembered on their version of Memorial Day. Folks go to cemeteries to leave flowers for their loved ones and they certainly don't celebrate or do barbeques.

 

[XTreat]

Hey guys guess what? Recruiters are individuals too! Some are assholes and some aren't, some lie and some don't, I agree with the sentiment that at best they are enablers, but try to remember we are all individuals, even in the military.

 

[James Madison]

Besides being a day for celebrating perpetual war like Veteran's day, the other problem with Memorial day is that only the military is remembered.

In other countries, everyone who has died gets remembered on their version of Memorial Day. Folks go to cemeteries to leave flowers for their loved ones and they certainly don't celebrate or do barbeques.

Only a morally dead society can turn a celebration to the end of war into a celebration of it.

Servants of the state are more equal than us mere mundanes.

 

[WhistlinDave]

WOW. Must spread some reputation around, blah blah blah. (I know you get that a lot. LOL)

Seriously thank you for posting this. I'm going to be sure to share this letter around. This is something every soldier and every American needs to read.

 

[Christian Liberty]

At this point the military is just a career for people that can't get a decent job. Since getting a decent job is nearly impossible being a mercenary is a good idea.

Defending our freedoms? Nah. Respect the job? Yeah. Does this job help make the world a safer place? Hell no!

Why should I respect the job of policing the world and destroying our freedoms?

What's the difference between being in the military and being a welfare queen? I guess welfare queen is better because at least doesn't endanger us the way troops do?

Or kill innocents.

I don't flat out hate soldiers but I don't respect them just for being soldiers. I know Ron Paul was in the military and I have a ton of respect for him but none of that has anything to do with him having ever been in the military.

Article I, Section 8. Under the defined powers of Congress.

"To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;"

I think anyways. The NDAA each year is what is used to bypass this though. Many or perhaps most of the Founders were against standing armies, due to their experiences with the Redcoats.

Yeah, its technically a workaround but that's obviously not what they intended.

Regardless of what the constitution says (As in, we should amend it if we have to) my personal view is that we should have a very limited army on duty at any given time protecting our borders, and everyone else should be reserve and should have jobs in the civilian sector rather than being "Standing." It should also require, via constitutional amendment, UNANMIMOUS congressional support to go to war.

What I find also disgusting is people saying we need a civil war here so we can "FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM". Pretty much all the same liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, Libertarian, anarchist, they all love that line. All you have to do is switch the enemy and you can get any one of those groups to start their indoctrinated "FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM" chant. And they all believe to their deepest heart that they are the only ones right.....

My statement was actually a mockery of the original line, "If you were actually fighting for our freedom, you'd be fighting DC." But I guess you're a pacifist. I have no idea if we've reached critical mass to the point where we can actually win this country yet or not (Probably not) but I don't support just laying down and letting them take it.

And it is certainly posssible to fight for freedom. That's its so obviously a propaganda line in wars like Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea, and Vietnam, and even questionable in wars like WWII or the War for Southern Independence (Not sure it was really "Freedom" the South was fighting for, even though I certainly think the South was justifiably fighting a war of self-defense) doesn't mean its impossible to ever do.

I can't imagine it happening right now, but if a totalitarian country tried to invade the United States and our troops fought to defend the United States against them, they really WOULD be "Fighting for our freedoms." The real question is, are they fighting to protect our freedoms, or are they destroying them. In reality, its the latter, in reality, it may well ALWAYS be the latter. But that doesn't mean violence is always illegitimate. America should not be policing the world. Its not our job, and its immoral. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight if we are attacked.

OK, I would never actually say that to a soldier. If it came up, I'd tell them the truth (You don't defend our freedom, what you're doing isn't moral, exc.) but I'd say it more nicely than that.

I like his take down of Afghanistan. BS war. Just like Iraq. Pointless.

I don't like the war in Afghanistan but I don't think it was QUITE as bad as the one in Iraq. At least that one was ever remotely connected to 9/11. The way to tell the difference between a "Realist" (In quotes because I don't really agree with the terminology, we're the real realists) and a neo-con is the Iraqi War, not the Afghan one.

Besides being a day for celebrating perpetual war like Veteran's day, the other problem with Memorial day is that only the military is remembered.

In other countries, everyone who has died gets remembered on their version of Memorial Day. Folks go to cemeteries to leave flowers for their loved ones and they certainly don't celebrate or do barbeques.

You know, I hear you, why are we barbecuing on a day to remember the dead? That said, since its basically a military worship day now anyway, I honestly have no qualms about going to be a barbecue. I'm not happy anyone died but I'm not mourning for an entire day for the imperial system. I guess if I knew someone personally who had died I might feel differently but "The Troops" as a group are honestly... evil? How do I say it?

I think it should be more sad when someone in thee defending country dies than when one of "Ours" dies. Let's just put it that way.

BTW: I still live at home obviously, and I'm going to a barbecue with my family, but if I ever had my own household I would definitely refuse to acknowledge the day there.

Hey guys guess what? Recruiters are individuals too! Some are assholes and some aren't, some lie and some don't, I agree with the sentiment that at best they are enablers, but try to remember we are all individuals, even in the military.

You really AREN'T an individual in the military. You should read what Laurence Vance says about it. I agree that there are different degrees of culpability (Which Vance seems to disagree with, so I think I disagree with him) but that's about it. If I joined the military, knowing what I know, I would definitely be a murderer because I know better. If you're ignorant, like so many people are, I don't think you're QUITE as guilty as you would be otherwise. But you're still guilty since you still chose to join.

Only a morally dead society can turn a celebration to the end of war into a celebration of it.

Servants of the state are more equal than us mere mundanes.

Indeed:sad:

 

[klamath]

Why should I respect the job of policing the world and destroying our freedoms?



Or kill innocents.

I don't flat out hate soldiers but I don't respect them just for being soldiers. I know Ron Paul was in the military and I have a ton of respect for him but none of that has anything to do with him having ever been in the military.



Yeah, its technically a workaround but that's obviously not what they intended.

Regardless of what the constitution says (As in, we should amend it if we have to) my personal view is that we should have a very limited army on duty at any given time protecting our borders, and everyone else should be reserve and should have jobs in the civilian sector rather than being "Standing." It should also require, via constitutional amendment, UNANMIMOUS congressional support to go to war.



My statement was actually a mockery of the original line, "If you were actually fighting for our freedom, you'd be fighting DC." But I guess you're a pacifist. I have no idea if we've reached critical mass to the point where we can actually win this country yet or not (Probably not) but I don't support just laying down and letting them take it.

And it is certainly posssible to fight for freedom. That's its so obviously a propaganda line in wars like Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea, and Vietnam, and even questionable in wars like WWII or the War for Southern Independence (Not sure it was really "Freedom" the South was fighting for, even though I certainly think the South was justifiably fighting a war of self-defense) doesn't mean its impossible to ever do.

I can't imagine it happening right now, but if a totalitarian country tried to invade the United States and our troops fought to defend the United States against them, they really WOULD be "Fighting for our freedoms." The real question is, are they fighting to protect our freedoms, or are they destroying them. In reality, its the latter, in reality, it may well ALWAYS be the latter. But that doesn't mean violence is always illegitimate. America should not be policing the world. Its not our job, and its immoral. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight if we are attacked.



OK, I would never actually say that to a soldier. If it came up, I'd tell them the truth (You don't defend our freedom, what you're doing isn't moral, exc.) but I'd say it more nicely than that.



I don't like the war in Afghanistan but I don't think it was QUITE as bad as the one in Iraq. At least that one was ever remotely connected to 9/11. The way to tell the difference between a "Realist" (In quotes because I don't really agree with the terminology, we're the real realists) and a neo-con is the Iraqi War, not the Afghan one.



You know, I hear you, why are we barbecuing on a day to remember the dead? That said, since its basically a military worship day now anyway, I honestly have no qualms about going to be a barbecue. I'm not happy anyone died but I'm not mourning for an entire day for the imperial system. I guess if I knew someone personally who had died I might feel differently but "The Troops" as a group are honestly... evil? How do I say it?

I think it should be more sad when someone in thee defending country dies than when one of "Ours" dies. Let's just put it that way.

BTW: I still live at home obviously, and I'm going to a barbecue with my family, but if I ever had my own household I would definitely refuse to acknowledge the day there.


You really AREN'T an individual in the military. You should read what Laurence Vance says about it. I agree that there are different degrees of culpability (Which Vance seems to disagree with, so I think I disagree with him) but that's about it. If I joined the military, knowing what I know, I would definitely be a murderer because I know better. If you're ignorant, like so many people are, I don't think you're QUITE as guilty as you would be otherwise. But you're still guilty since you still chose to join.


Indeed:sad:

Which shows your extreme youth and inexperience. You've got this glorified idea that you just go to Washington Dirty City and shoot the bad guys. The bad guys will end up being your neighbors, and families.
The north fought the war to stop southern independence, while the south fought the war to protect their right to hold 5 million people as slaves. The idea that the south was fighting for the right of secession is a joke as proved by the fact that they left the part in their constitutions about putting down rebellions and the fact that when eastern TN voted to leave the confederacy they sent southern troops there.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Which shows your extreme youth and inexperience. You've got this glorified idea that you just go to Washington Dirty City and shoot the bad guys. The bad guys will end up being your neighbors, and families.
The north fought the war to stop southern independence, while the south fought the war to protect their right to hold 5 million people as slaves. The idea that the south was fighting for the right of secession is a joke as proved by the fact that they left the part in their constitutions about putting down rebellions and the fact that when eastern TN voted to leave the confederacy they sent southern troops there.

So what's your solution? Let the tyrants win?

I don't really support going into DC for the record: I support secession. If the Federal Government chooses to make that into a civil war, that's on them.

 

[klamath]

So what's your solution? Let the tyrants win?

I don't really support going into DC for the record: I support secession. If the Federal Government chooses to make that into a civil war, that's on them.

Just do me a favor and post just exactly how you think it would all go down? Explain the details. Things like what do you do with the people that don't want to secede? How are you going the mitigate the collateral damage the resulting war would bring? How are you going to pay for the troops in your freedom army and even if they are all volunteer's how are you going to feed and supply them? When the troops start getting weary of war and deserting your rebel army are you going to order that they be shot? When your ranks get thin are you going to draft poor southern farmers to fight your freedom battle?
These and a whole lot of others you need to think about.

 

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

Article I, Section 8. Under the defined powers of Congress.

"To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;"

I think anyways. The NDAA each year is what is used to bypass this though. Many or perhaps most of the Founders were against standing armies, due to their experiences with the Redcoats.

Why should I respect the job of policing the world and destroying our freedoms?
Yeah, its technically a workaround but that's obviously not what they intended.

If you consider the NDAAs in the context of the 2nd Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State

and the state constitutions such as Virginia's (1776):

That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty;

then a scheme of appropriating money every 2 years for over a century in order to maintain a permanent military is the same sort of "structuring" crime as what the IRSS will accuse an American serf of committing if he makes a series of $9,000 transactions.

Its not like I expect any part of the constitution to be considered as anything more than toilet paper by the government and most of society, but it bothers me that you hardly ever hear "Constitutionalists" (good men such as Ron Paul and even Hornberger) point out that our Constitutions are 100% head on opposed to a permanent government military.

It seems that the fear of offending the conservative military welfare queens is so great that we dare not tell them that the authors of our constitutions were forced to compromise with the libertarian anti-federalists and outlaw a permanently armed government.

Likewise, most libertarian constitutionalists seldomly bring up the all important fact that the state and local police agencies are all equally prohibited by our constitutions.

Every time that conservatives bring up the subject of the constitution, we should immediately point out the irony of their even mentioning the constitution when it clearly outlaws their 2 favorite government projects: the military and the cops.

ARE COPS CONSTITUTIONAL?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...r-Why-I-do-not-support-quot-private-quot-cops

 

[Shane Harris]

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” Voltaire

The truth tastes bitter compared to the sweet fiction of propaganda.

 

[XTreat]

Why should I respect the job of policing the world and destroying our freedoms?



Or kill innocents.

I don't flat out hate soldiers but I don't respect them just for being soldiers. I know Ron Paul was in the military and I have a ton of respect for him but none of that has anything to do with him having ever been in the military.



Yeah, its technically a workaround but that's obviously not what they intended.

Regardless of what the constitution says (As in, we should amend it if we have to) my personal view is that we should have a very limited army on duty at any given time protecting our borders, and everyone else should be reserve and should have jobs in the civilian sector rather than being "Standing." It should also require, via constitutional amendment, UNANMIMOUS congressional support to go to war.



My statement was actually a mockery of the original line, "If you were actually fighting for our freedom, you'd be fighting DC." But I guess you're a pacifist. I have no idea if we've reached critical mass to the point where we can actually win this country yet or not (Probably not) but I don't support just laying down and letting them take it.

And it is certainly posssible to fight for freedom. That's its so obviously a propaganda line in wars like Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea, and Vietnam, and even questionable in wars like WWII or the War for Southern Independence (Not sure it was really "Freedom" the South was fighting for, even though I certainly think the South was justifiably fighting a war of self-defense) doesn't mean its impossible to ever do.

I can't imagine it happening right now, but if a totalitarian country tried to invade the United States and our troops fought to defend the United States against them, they really WOULD be "Fighting for our freedoms." The real question is, are they fighting to protect our freedoms, or are they destroying them. In reality, its the latter, in reality, it may well ALWAYS be the latter. But that doesn't mean violence is always illegitimate. America should not be policing the world. Its not our job, and its immoral. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight if we are attacked.



OK, I would never actually say that to a soldier. If it came up, I'd tell them the truth (You don't defend our freedom, what you're doing isn't moral, exc.) but I'd say it more nicely than that.



I don't like the war in Afghanistan but I don't think it was QUITE as bad as the one in Iraq. At least that one was ever remotely connected to 9/11. The way to tell the difference between a "Realist" (In quotes because I don't really agree with the terminology, we're the real realists) and a neo-con is the Iraqi War, not the Afghan one.



You know, I hear you, why are we barbecuing on a day to remember the dead? That said, since its basically a military worship day now anyway, I honestly have no qualms about going to be a barbecue. I'm not happy anyone died but I'm not mourning for an entire day for the imperial system. I guess if I knew someone personally who had died I might feel differently but "The Troops" as a group are honestly... evil? How do I say it?

I think it should be more sad when someone in thee defending country dies than when one of "Ours" dies. Let's just put it that way.

BTW: I still live at home obviously, and I'm going to a barbecue with my family, but if I ever had my own household I would definitely refuse to acknowledge the day there.


You really AREN'T an individual in the military. You should read what Laurence Vance says about it. I agree that there are different degrees of culpability (Which Vance seems to disagree with, so I think I disagree with him) but that's about it. If I joined the military, knowing what I know, I would definitely be a murderer because I know better. If you're ignorant, like so many people are, I don't think you're QUITE as guilty as you would be otherwise. But you're still guilty since you still chose to join.


Indeed:sad:

Very few of us are not guilty to some degree.

Organized Guilt and Universal Responsibility

 

[Anti Federalist]

What This Day Really Is

Posted by Lew Rockwell on May 27, 2013 12:16 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/138170.html#more-138170

Writes Simon Black:


Today is the Memorial Day holiday in the Land of the Free.

Curiously, this is the day that the federal government sets aside for citizens to reflect on the sacrifices made by soldiers throughout history to 'preserve our freedoms.'

At least, that's what we're told.

We're programmed to sing the anthem, wave the flag, and cheer at the parade. We swell with pride at the high note, wear the ribbons, and solemnly nod our heads in approval when politicians make speeches about freedom and fallen soldiers.

Wartime Presidents routinely tell crowds that it is the 'hardest decision of their lives' to send soldiers into combat, but that it's necessary to to preserve peace, freedom, security, and democracy.

Yet with each conflict, we are less peaceful. Less secure. Less 'democratic'. And certainly less free.

And with very few exceptions, the true motives for war throughout history have almost always been about resources (oil), power, corporate interests, and imperialistic expansion... all started by politicians who send young people into harm's way from their air-conditioned Ivory Towers.

It's truly ironic that we have a holiday to remember this.

Coincidentally, today is also the anniversary of the day I graduated from West Point years ago. And having spent some time myself on that side of the world, I'm thinking today of the friends and classmates I knew who lost their lives needlessly in Iraq and Afghanistan.

When I was in the service, I remember being constantly told by senior officers that our actions were making the world safer.

I realized very quickly that this was completely baloney, and I left the service as soon as I could.

But it's difficult, even after so many years, to choke down the deceit of a day like today... a day to commemorate millions of people, both military and civilian, who supposedly died in support of something that no longer exists.

Politicians want us to turn out for the parade. They want us to stand in a moment of silence. They want us to rally around the flag. They just don't want us to think too much about it.

Because if people do... if they start to peel away at the onion, they'll realize that this purported freedom that so many soldiers fought for is rapidly deteriorating.

Most of all, people will realize that the same politicians who give us this holiday to think about such freedom are the ones responsible for destroying it.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

I believe this is bump worthy.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

I believe this is bump worthy.