An assessment of the LA caucuses

[FluffyUnbound]

In this sham caucus, they band together as a "group" (here again the collectivist mentality).
take candidates A-F to make one candidate leaving candidate G (Ron Paul) so that there are only two candidates for whom to vote. This is a huge difference!!

Sham indeed

First of all, the supporters of other candidates are American citizens with an unfettered right to freely associate. If they want to band together to specifically stop Paul, that may make them dicks, but it's ABSOLUTELY AND WITHOUT LIMITATION their right to do so.

Second of all, aren't you aware that in many areas, and for many offices, run-off voting is employed if no one receives a clear majority of the vote? In such a circumstance, candidates A-F may in fact end up having their supporters pooled, to defeat candidate G, even if candidate G got a plurality of the votes. After the Wyoming caucuses I would assume everyone here would realize that.

Third of all, this isn't going to matter because when the provisional votes are counted we will get our share of delegates.

 

[Carole]

I can tell you one thing. As one who totally supports the most honest man who has ever run for the office of president, I can truly say that he would and will do everything, once in power, to destroy the dishonesty and trickery and deceit in what should be the people's election process.

This sort of intrigue is exactly what we are fighting against and in order to further our own cause, it is incumbent upon us now to engage in the same chicanery that we deplore in our opponents. It fairly makes me ill and I personally condemn the process.

Having said that, I will swallow my tongue and simply agree that we must use the process against the neocons and other power seekers who wish to crush our cause. It just makes me ill.

Whoever is advising the patriotic grassroots volunteers who have been giving so much, needs to do a better job.

 

[chrismatthews]

Hey huey, I want to apologize to all of you guys who worked your asses off down there. It's silly to watch all of the same people that get us branded as paulbots eat their own. Thanks for all of the hard work.

We got outmaneuvered, it happens. Politics is a contact sport.


Last night was an organizational battle, and we lost it. It was not through lack of effort or enthusiasm.

 

[hueylong]

I don't deserve any credit, Chris. Brett, Jenn -- all the folks across the state -- they worked really hard.

And frankly -- they did an AMAZING job. I was in a meeting today with some Republican elected officials today, and all they could talk about was how many Ron Paul people were at the caucuses. It was all the talk.

 

[Carole]

I'm eliminating the obfuscation so that we can understand more clearly what took place. That is not lunacy. We were disenfranchised by a coalition, yet we're nominating an individual. If you go back and forth from coalitions to individuals, it can subvert the will of the people. The worse thing is, this was done with a high degree of obfuscation. Now that this coalition has eliminated the favorite, it will morph into the individual candidates again. I don't blame people for not getting what is happening. It's very sophisticated.

Sophisticated is hardly the word, but I get exactly what you are saying since these "tactics" are commonplace for the powermongers who fear loss of power. It speaks volumes to me about the kind of human beings they really are, and that is being kind.

We must get rid of their ilk and never, ever againin this country allow their kind to see office again. They should live in caves, ponds, and forests along with all the other reptilian creatures.

 

[nodope0695]

www.lagop.com

 

[hueylong]

No one was disenfranchised. People ran to be elected delegates. They got more votes than our people who ran to be elected delegates. Period.

It is nothing more, or less, than that.

If you think it was "conspiracy" or "corruption" or "unethical" -- you don't clearly understand how the process worked.

 

[chrismatthews]

Sophisticated is hardly the word, but I get exactly what you are saying since these "tactics" are commonplace for the powermongers who fear loss of power. It speaks volumes to me about the kind of human beings they really are, and that is being kind.

We must get rid of their ilk and never, ever againin this country allow their kind to see office again. They should live in caves, ponds, and forests along with all the other reptilian creatures.

These "tactics" otherwise known as "rules" are what we were competing in. If we had the forsight to team up with huck people, for example, we could have split the delegates in our favor.

Hindsights 20/20

 

[VoluntaryMan]

Why fight over whether this was an underhanded tactic? Of course, it was underhanded; anyone who can't see that should probably take a personal ethics inventory. However, was it a legitimate political maneuver? Certainly...and isn't that really part of the problem?

What many seem to be missing here is that the opposition has just made our argument for us:

1) Is Dr. Paul just some "kooky, paranoid, conspiracy nut" or are "they" really out to get him? I think that LA has made a pretty sound case for the latter point.

2) Is the opposition composed of amoral, flip-flopping, say-anything-to-get-elected, corrupt politicians? Teaming up to characterize Mitt and Rudy as "pro-life," while trying to paint Dr. Paul's record as "anti-life" and "anti-family" is not only dishonest but absurd. Case closed.

3) Is the opposition essentially a neocon hydra, a creature called "Rudy McRompsonbee" with many faces and names, but with one unified goal? How could any reasonable person take an honest look at what just happened and conclude otherwise?

Instead of fighting amongst ourselves over whether this was legitimate despite being dishonest or dishonest despite being legitimate, we should be publicizing the opposition's recent maneuver as the best example of what we've been saying all along.

 

[Carole]

They are typical power seekers then, not really interested in what is best for the country, but merely what is best for themselves.

I spit upon them.

 

[hueylong]

This (next to) last post is still all crack. The delegates who were elected were almost ALL long time elected officials and party activists. They were trying to get THEMSELVES elected to the state convention. It's what they do. It's what they've done for years.

It had NOTHING to do with hating Dr. Paul, or any kind of neoconservative conspiracy.

Jeez.

 

[parocks]

They weren't tricks. As long as we keep thinking somebody cheated, we're not going to learn the lesson of this caucus.

Screaming, arguing with people, complaining is what we do best.

On the other hand, there sure are a lot of us.

 

[Carole]

Let me say what you just said with less words:

If you support fairness in elections, then you're a fair weather supporter of Dr. Paul.

That is a complete fallacy in reasoning. Apples and potatoes.

I strongly support fair elections and I would be willing to bet all I own that Dr. Paul suports fair elections as well.

I am definitely not a fair weather supporter of Dr. Paul and I think you are wrong if you believe what you just said. I would also bet that 99.44/100% of his supporters are all-weather supporters.

 

[parocks]

These "tactics" otherwise known as "rules" are what we were competing in. If we had the forsight to team up with huck people, for example, we could have split the delegates in our favor.

Hindsights 20/20

Based on what we now know, I think we needed flyers with Pro Family Pro Life written on em. And we keep the local pols on the list, and we take McCain's people off the list and put on some of ours.

We need to be smart. We need a bag of our own tricks that include more than waving Ron Paul signs, chanting Ron Paul, arguing with people about Ron Paul, compaining when things don't go our way, etc etc etc.

I think that in Maine, we'll have people on the ground who are willing to work.

Some will want to hand out the Ron Paul slate. Others might want to hand out a "Pro Maine" slate. We definitely should have different people handing out different types of lit. Different slates.

 

[Carole]

Frankly, I cannot see that ever happening simply because his supporters so loyal that they always show in great numbers and are getting smarter daily. They know we have to try three times as hard as the others, so it is difficult to see that happening. In fact, until and unless it ever does, I will say it would not happen.

I would still deplore it however, because it is dishonest.

 

[Carole]

The word conspiracy has not been used until you used it.

This is a discussion and we all have the right to disagree.

 

[Carole]

And again, people need to remember this rEVOLution doesn't end with Dr Paul - or at least it doesn't for me. Consider all these losses as VALUABLE lessons that we can use to support OUR LIBERTY CANDIDATE in 2012!! (that is of course if we still have a country by then!)

Precisely! My biggest concern is that we do not have time, nor will we likely ever have a more qualified candidate with so much integrity. All has come together at this point in time for a reason.

Remember RFID by May 2008. And the neocons have been speeding up the entire dismantling of our country. Our sovereignty is nearly gone and daily they draft new treaties and lend billions in borrowed money, and remove daily more liberties, as they war their way around the globe. Having watched it all for so long, I see the writing on the wall and it is an ugly sight.

Sometimes, I admit I feel a bit desparate because I want a peaceful revolution. I do not want it to be necessary to have a violent one in this country.

Having waited so many decades for this, I am confident this is the right person for the right time in our history. I will not be alive for another attempt in my opinion.

Yes, I want the movement to continue if we fail to elect our man, but trust me, the attacks on our liberty and sovereignty will begin to come so fast you will not know what hit you. We really do not have the one thing we need to grow stronger and that is TIME.

 

[Carole]

I am so hopeful all of your delegates can do a great job of convincing them to see the reasons to vote for our candidate.

 

[Carole]

You just made my day. LOL

 

[Carole]

Fighting is the wrong word. This is a strong discussion. We have differing opinions, but it is healthy debate.

All those who read this thread can learn a great deal and will not be so innocent in the next round. Discussion is healthy and useful.

The frustration arises from the assurance that we were well prepared and that we should not worry. Suddenly we were blind-sided and the campaign people should have had our supporters prepared for anything. That does make us appear amateur when our people worked very, very hard to get the job done. I commend them and feel bad for them, because we were doing it honestly, with transparency, while the others were indeed unethical.