Americans In A Vice: The Left Puts Illegals First ... The Right Puts Israel First

[Brian4Liberty]

Americans In A Vice: The Left Puts Illegals First ... The Right Puts Israel First​

"The American citizen is caught in a vice. On one side there are protests (and many planned protests) against the deportation of illegal immigrants. On the other side there is increased government deficits and debt with a "Big Beautiful Bill," along with a possible war with Iran! The American citizen takes the brunt of it all. "Making America Great Again" appears to be a distant memory."

 

[69360]

Trump seems to be signalling that he is not going to directly back Israel militarily. We'll see soon enough. The left is wrong about illegals, they are breaking the law.

I am for a middle ground where the US only defends our own country but allows any immigrants that want to come legally.

Maybe we do need another party, both are taking extreme positions that probably are not in line with the average American's beliefs.

 

[tpreitzel]

Indeed. Some commentators state letting Israel attack Iran instead of the USA was a stroke of genius by the POTUS. Really? How smart will it be when Russia has to repel Israel's attack for Iran like the USA is currently doing for Israel? Consequently, two superpowers will be indirectly engaged in an explosive situation with just one wrong move away from global war. Foolishness at work... I don't see how this situation can be contained without massive bloodshed. Ironic, isn't it since Israel contends it acted preemptively to prevent their annihilation, but in fact probably guaranteed it...minus a couple hundred of thousand?

A wider war could help reduce the number of illegals, though. Will the fortunate sons escape this time, though?

 

[69360]

Show me some proof the US is repelling anything for Israel.

 

[tpreitzel]

I don't need to show you anything...

Interestingly, the nutballs in Trump's administration including Trump himself think the genie can be placed back in its bottle after Israel's foolish attack on Iran. Trump's decision to exempt certain occupations from ICE raids is even more foolish as he just telegraphed safe havens for terrorists and other criminals.

 

[Invisible Man]

The left is wrong about illegals, they are breaking the law.

If that is the only reason they're wrong about them, then they're not wrong, because "they are breaking the law" is no reason at all.

 

[69360]

If that is the only reason they're wrong about them, then they're not wrong, because "they are breaking the law" is no reason at all.

They illegally crossed our border. I don't have a problem with immigrants but we need to know who is coming into our country.

Open immigration and a secure border are not mutually exclusive.

 

[unknown]

Americans In A Vice: The Left Puts Illegals First ... The Right Puts Israel First​

"The American citizen is caught in a vice. On one side there are protests (and many planned protests) against the deportation of illegal immigrants. On the other side there is increased government deficits and debt with a "Big Beautiful Bill," along with a possible war with Iran! The American citizen takes the brunt of it all. "Making America Great Again" appears to be a distant memory."

Dan spittin facts.

 

[acptulsa]

 

[unknown]

I'd say it's more of a Zionist/Izraeli Firster agenda vs a Jewish one.

But what do I know.

 

[Invisible Man]

They illegally crossed our border. I don't have a problem with immigrants but we need to know who is coming into our country.

Open immigration and a secure border are not mutually exclusive.

You say "we." But you really mean the federal government, which is not "we," because it doesn't include either you or me. It's "they."

And I see no reason to believe that "they" have any right, to know what my name is, where I live, where I work, how I came to be in the USA, or whether I exist at all. They may think they "need" to know all of this in order to be able to continue to exercise the level of control over me that they do. But "we" would be in the wrong if we approve of them doing that or if we believe we have some duty to assist them in meeting this felt need of theirs.

And as for what "we" actually need to know, I don't need to know who comes onto your property, and you don't need to know who comes onto mine.

 

[69360]

You say "we." But you really mean the federal government, which is not "we," because it doesn't include either you or me. It's "they."

And I see no reason to believe that "they" have any right, to know what my name is, where I live, where I work, how I came to be in the USA, or whether I exist at all. They may think they "need" to know all of this in order to be able to continue to exercise the level of control over me that they do. But "we" would be in the wrong if we approve of them doing that or if we believe we have some duty to assist them in meeting this felt need of theirs.

And as for what "we" actually need to know, I don't need to know who comes onto your property, and you don't need to know who comes onto mine.

I want to know who is crossing our borders. I want to know what their intentions are. I want to know if they have a criminal history in their home country. I want a government that does this for me.

I also want a government that will issue a green card to any immigrant that comes here and wants to work. I do not want these immigrants to get any entitlements from our government until they are a citizen.

So again my point was a secure border and open immigration are not mutually exclusive.

You are going on about our government spying on us. These people are not citizens of the US, don't have the same protections here that we do and I want to know who they are and what their intentions are. That doesn't equate to I don't want them here, I do, but let's do it properly.

 

[Invisible Man]

I want to know who is crossing our borders. I want to know what their intentions are. I want to know if they have a criminal history in their home country. I want a government that does this for me.

I also want a government that will issue a green card to any immigrant that comes here and wants to work. I do not want these immigrants to get any entitlements from our government until they are a citizen.

So again my point was a secure border and open immigration are not mutually exclusive.

You are going on about our government spying on us. These people are not citizens of the US, don't have the same protections here that we do and I want to know who they are and what their intentions are. That doesn't equate to I don't want them here, I do, but let's do it properly.

Again, you say, "our." But the borders of the tax jurisdiction of the federal government are neither yours nor mine, so they aren't "ours." And they aren't legitimately the federal government's either.

You do have a right to know who crosses the borders of your own property. But you don't have a right to know who crosses mine.

And if you concede the points I made about the government spying on us, then you can't get around those points just by saying that "these people are not citizens." Because if you take away the federal government's ability to know all of those details about the people who are citizens, then you take away their ability to know them about anyone at all. If I have a right to exist within the boundaries of the federal government's tax jurisdiction totally anonymously without having to prove I belong here or who I even am, then anybody else can do the same.

 

[69360]

Again, you say, "our." But the borders of the tax jurisdiction of the federal government are neither yours nor mine, so they aren't "ours." And they aren't legitimately the federal government's either.

You do have a right to know who crosses the borders of your own property. But you don't have a right to know who crosses mine.

And if you concede the points I made about the government spying on us, then you can't get around those points just by saying that "these people are not citizens." Because if you take away the federal government's ability to know all of those details about the people who are citizens, then you take away their ability to know them about anyone at all. If I have a right to exist within the boundaries of the federal government's tax jurisdiction totally anonymously without having to prove I belong here or who I even am, then anybody else can do the same.

Your theoretical paradise is not the law and reality in OUR country.

 

[Invisible Man]

Your theoretical paradise is not the law and reality in OUR country.

Of course it's not the reality. Whenever we talk about what ought to be, what is right versus what is wrong, we're talking about an ideal that reality falls short of. That's not an excuse to throw out the concept of justice or to refrain from advocating right policies and opposing wrong ones. Your claim is a tacit admission that your own position is wrong, but that you will continue to advocate it anyway, simply because it is the status quo.

And you're incorrect about justice not being the law in our country. Justice is the only law that governs the rightness or wrongness of human actions that actually exists for all people at all times everywhere. Other so-called "laws" that owe their existence to nothing more than that they were made up by corrupt politicians can only be one of two things: 1. they can reiterate a law that already exists according to the demands of justice, in which case they are redundant and contribute nothing to the law of justice; or 2. they differ from the demands of justice, in which case they are unjust, and being unjust, they are no laws at all.

Any time somebody asserts that something is wrong, and their only reason for saying so is that "it's against the law," by which they mean a written law of some government, they are asserting a falsehood. Being against the law, in that sense, can never be a reason for something to be wrong. A law that prohibits something can only be a just law, if the thing it prohibits was already wrong before the corrupt human politicians decided to make up a law saying so. And if it is not a just law, it isn't a law at all.