Amash denounces armed protests in Michigan

[susano]

What in the actual $#@! is going on with Amash? His actions are bewildering and I can't make any sense of it. I can't tell if hes showing his true colors or if he's being blackmailed.

True colors. He's not important nor influential enough to be blackmailed.

 

[susano]

Amash Condemns Trump's Red Flag Law

vs

Trump's Sr. Advisor Ivanka is Advising Her Father to Stand For Red Flag Gun Controls







EM.

On a related note, Trump administration is also condemning and taking notice of such protests.


Coronavirus Crisis Unleashed 'Tsunami' of anti-Semitism, Trump Official Says

Special envoy Elan Carr says his office is closely monitoring online expressions of anti-Semitism around the world, clearly seeing an uptick in hate speech caused amid the spread of COVID-19
Washington May 05, 2020

Odd are good the person holding the Jew rat sign is a Democrap. Of course, the other sign being held is calling the governor a Nazi which is pretty damn close, though I'd go with Marxist.

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

 

[susano]

You are equating libertarian with being a moron. Amash clearly makes the distinction. Nothing to do with being moderate.

Here is the liberty position on protesting.

What's your point? The governor of Michigan took it upon herself to wage war against the people of the state by, essentially, outlawing the Bill of Rights. Businesses are still closed down here. Nobody can go to a dentist or a doctor. Nobody can get addiction treatment or therapy. It's a communist coup and that asshole Amash thinks we should "work with the governor" who is a fucking tyrant. The state capital belongs to the people, not the employees who work there.

 

[susano]

In which Justin Amash explains to glue sniffers that just because you have the right to do something in a free society doesn't mean it is smart.

Glue sniffers?

Neither you nor Amash has any problem with armed goons of the state being present in the building so who's the "glue sniffer"?

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Odd are good the person holding the Jew rat sign is a Democrap. Of course, the other sign being held is calling the governor a Nazi which is pretty damn close, though I'd go with Marxist.
http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

Quite possible.. although R & D might not be very telling in some cases; also based on track record, it could be argued that Trump is more of a Democrat/Liberal than Hillary Clinton on various issues.

But to follow up on the fake hate aspect, do you think Trump officials are also responding to 'fake hate' or their global campaign against hate is genuine?

Coronavirus Crisis Unleashed 'Tsunami' of anti-Semitism, Trump Official Says
Special envoy Elan Carr says his office is closely monitoring online expressions of anti-Semitism around the world, clearly seeing an uptick in hate speech caused amid the spread of COVID-19
Washington May 05, 2020

 

[susano]

Winning the hearts and minds of the average citizen against their behemoth news media and Hollywood propaganda machine is not going to happen right now. Taking a stand, having the numbers on the ground in mass, not backing down will cause people to take notice and think for themselves for a change. Slowly but surely a little at a time just like the Progressives strategy has been over the years.

No matter how much you comply and conform to appease them, the left will still slam you and through MSM propaganda they will continue to move people in favour of willingly relinquishing their rights. This has always been their strategy and it is has worked successfully because people on the right think the strategy of trying to look good to the people that hate them and their beliefs will some how work. With each retreat, each apology and conformity, they will continue to attack you and gain ground for themselves.

And, my goodness gracious, we don't want to offend them or risk bad optics while they're in a middle of their communist coup and are running our state (and country) into the ground! I mean, we want took good, after all, not like a bunch of glue sniffers.

 

[susano]

Nothing wrong with a sidearm. I just think open carrying a long gun at a protest like this draws attention from the issue you are protesting.

If this current mess turns out to be the end, I would be part of the 3% and carry a rifle in the fight. I don't think we are there yet.

Define "there" because the "lockdown" is a coup and a coup is war.

 

[susano]

I unapologetically disagree and deem Amash a Weakman for making so ill-bred a statement as this.

I was thinking "cuck". He's a poster boy for the definition. All he needs are the jammies and hot cocoa.

 

[susano]

I'm not hating on Amash. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on here and get to the bottom of it.

He's my congressman and I smelled a rat with him a long time ago with his pandering to progressives at town halls. That he would say we should "work with" the governor is unbelievable. She's a raging commie who, while shutting down all health care in our state said that abortions had to continue because they're "life sustaining". She rules by executive order. The woman needs to be in prison and he wants to work with her.

 

[susano]

I support the 2nd. Heck I even personally go beyond the current laws about semi-auto and think you should be able to own full auto and any capacity mag if that is your desire.

If it's a 2nd protest it's one thing, but if it's a protest against the lockdown, you don't win over the liberals by freaking them out with dudes with in tactical gear with an AR15 slug on their back. You just make clickbait stories about "armed right wing racists" for the MSM.

We're in a war. Just because the shooting hasn't begun doesn't mean we aren't. Our state is being crushed and lives are being ruined. Those people there know it.

 

[susano]

I think he's saying "Why give the media ammo to smear you?" In a lot of ways, protestors walk right into the trap that the media wants, where the protests can be characterized however the media decides and broadcast far and wide based on a few select pictures. Going into the state house with nazi signs and guns isn't going to change much unless they're intended to be used. Clearly, the mere ownership of guns in the country hasn't stopped the slow grind into tyranny. Maybe slowed it down some but obviously hasn't stopped or reversed it.

Having said that, I'm somewhat a purist but so far I'm willing to cut Amash some breaks on his rhetoric since his track record is otherwise fabulous. He's so far campaigning like he's actually trying to win a national election instead of harping on wonky policy points that most voters don't care about nor even really understand. We KNOW how dumbed down the average voter is and it's folly to think they'll suddenly decide to become scholars. I'm ok at this point with a libertarian with a solid track record running a populist campaign since only populist campaigns actually win. Slogging through another election season just to win the usual 1-2%? No thanks.




Or maybe he's trying to win by running a populist campaign that offers appeal to all sections of voters? No one is going to win a national election by advocating storming state houses with rifles and Hitler pictures. They're just not.




It is highly unlikely, sure, but I hope you don't seriously think that the independent/unaffiliated voters that decide elections (assuming free and fair elections, big assumption I know) are in favor of running into state houses with rifles and Hitler pictures, do you? There's personal preferences and then there's electoral realities. I'm reminded of Clinton's statement about having "private positions and public positions"...
Plus, he's already getting more media coverage than pretty much every LP candidate ever and it's not because he's saying everyone should go all 3%er on their state houses.

The only signs referencing Nazis were calling the governor of Michigan one. And, here's the deal on the FAKE news about a Nazi flag:

After last week's protest around the Michigan Capitol, a picture of someone holding a large swastika flag that said "TRUMP PENCE" began circulating on social media as a sign of the supposed Nazi leanings of Trump supporters and the people protesting. But after some viral outrage about the kind of people the conservative organizers of these protests were in cahoots with, it turns out that the picture in question actually came from a March 2 Bernie Sanders rally in Boise, Idaho.

https://reason.com/2020/04/20/dont-get-fooled-by-fake-photos-of-coronavirus-lockdown-protests/

Please, use some discretion and don't parrot MSM. None of those people in the capital were promoting Nazi anything. That's the usual MSM bullshit.

 

[susano]

Quite possible.. although R & D might not be very telling in some cases; also based on track record, it could be argued that Trump is more of a Democrat/Liberal than Hillary Clinton on various issues.

But to follow up on the fake hate aspect, do you think Trump officials are also responding to 'fake hate' or their global campaign against hate is genuine?

Coronavirus Crisis Unleashed 'Tsunami' of anti-Semitism, Trump Official Says
Special envoy Elan Carr says his office is closely monitoring online expressions of anti-Semitism around the world, clearly seeing an uptick in hate speech caused amid the spread of COVID-19
Washington May 05, 2020

I think the charge is false and Trump is a ass kisser of Jews who probably believes their confabulated ADL BS.

 

[pcosmar]

I don't see guys in tactical gear with long guns in that picture or am I missing something?

https://hazardousliberty.com/events
More photos
https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Mt6Gz8/

Look through the gallery... Photographers were not focused on the Guns as much as the People... but you will see a well armed crowd..

I showed up in a few videos,,, haven't seen my mug in these pics.

 

[Theocrat]

"Rules For Thee, But Not For Me"

You know what? I kind of agree with Amash. I do support these guys right to bear arms. I would never support any law that takes away that right. But honestly did you really need to show up with an AR15 strapped to your back? It just freaks out the liberals and dilutes your message. If you really feel a threat to your safety carry a pistol concealed. If the day comes when it gets bad enough we need to open carry long guns for our safety, I will be there alongside you fighting.

[Bold emphasis mine]

Yes. Our government officials need to be reminded of whom and what they're supposed to be serving, and it's not themselves. If they can hide behind guns (in fact, they have armies and arsenals at their disposals) to intimidate law-abiding citizens with unalienable rights into obeying their edicts, then those citizens have every right to check that power by intimidating them with their own guns.

 

[Theocrat]

There is a Standard, and It's Not Populism

I think he's saying "Why give the media ammo to smear you?" In a lot of ways, protestors walk right into the trap that the media wants, where the protests can be characterized however the media decides and broadcast far and wide based on a few select pictures. Going into the state house with nazi signs and guns isn't going to change much unless they're intended to be used. Clearly, the mere ownership of guns in the country hasn't stopped the slow grind into tyranny. Maybe slowed it down some but obviously hasn't stopped or reversed it.

Having said that, I'm somewhat a purist but so far I'm willing to cut Amash some breaks on his rhetoric since his track record is otherwise fabulous. He's so far campaigning like he's actually trying to win a national election instead of harping on wonky policy points that most voters don't care about nor even really understand. We KNOW how dumbed down the average voter is and it's folly to think they'll suddenly decide to become scholars. I'm ok at this point with a libertarian with a solid track record running a populist campaign since only populist campaigns actually win. Slogging through another election season just to win the usual 1-2%? No thanks.




Or maybe he's trying to win by running a populist campaign that offers appeal to all sections of voters? No one is going to win a national election by advocating storming state houses with rifles and Hitler pictures. They're just not.




It is highly unlikely, sure, but I hope you don't seriously think that the independent/unaffiliated voters that decide elections (assuming free and fair elections, big assumption I know) are in favor of running into state houses with rifles and Hitler pictures, do you? There's personal preferences and then there's electoral realities. I'm reminded of Clinton's statement about having "private positions and public positions"...
Plus, he's already getting more media coverage than pretty much every LP candidate ever and it's not because he's saying everyone should go all 3%er on their state houses.

That's the problem. You're making Populism the standard, when it shouldn't be. Populism is the reason why we continue to move further away from any real progress towards small government, sound money, etc. Populism is just sociopolitical relativism, and it always moves with the waves of arbitrary, public opinion.

We need candidates who are principled and unafraid to stand on principle, in order for their platforms to remain consistent and objective. When that happens, then it will expose the problems rooted in our society, from the corrupt media organizations to the ignorant populace who continually vote for the very candidates that have destroyed our nation because of the subjectivity of arbitrary laws.

 

[69360]

[Bold emphasis mine]

Yes. Our government officials need to be reminded of whom and what they're supposed to be serving, and it's not themselves. If they can hide behind guns (in fact, they have armies and arsenals at their disposals) to intimidate law-abiding citizens with unalienable rights into obeying their edicts, then those citizens have every right to check that power by intimidating them with their own guns.

Are you intimidated by them? I am not. So I do not feel the need to parade around with a long gun. I also know if things go sideways I am fully capable of doing what is necessary.

 

[Krugminator2]

Glue sniffers?

Neither you nor Amash has any problem with armed goons of the state being present in the building so who's the "glue sniffer"?

Police are an part of a free society. In fact, protecting rights with law enforcement and the military is the whole reason for government existing.

So no, I don't have a problem with there being security at the Capitol. There are people hipped up on crystal meth and low IQ who might do lawmakers harm like the guy who shot Steve Scalise.

 

[Theocrat]

A Gun is a "Badge"

Are you intimidated by them? I am not. So I do not feel the need to parade around with a long gun. I also know if things go sideways I am fully capable of doing what is necessary.

I'm not intimidated by them, until the time comes when I have to be stopped at a "health checkpoint" in order to show them an "immunity card" that I refuse to carry along. They'll be the ones brandishing guns to enforce an unethical edict of the State. And that's the point. Guns are deterrents, and we all have every right to carry them in whatever way we deem appropriate.

 

[Krugminator2]

Our government officials need to be reminded of whom and what they're supposed to be serving, and it's not themselves

There is something that already exists to handle that. It is called the ballot box.

Using physical threats to intimidate is fine for monkeys, not for humans.

[Bold emphasis mine]

If they can hide behind guns (in fact, they have armies and arsenals at their disposals) to intimidate law-abiding citizens with unalienable rights into obeying their edicts, then those citizens have every right to check that power by intimidating them with their own guns.

Individual citizens don't get to decide which laws are legitimate. We have a court system that settles the legality of laws. The average person is a low IQ dunce. Laws aren't subject to the arbitrary whims.

 

[devil21]

He's my congressman and I smelled a rat with him a long time ago with his pandering to progressives at town halls. That he would say we should "work with" the governor is unbelievable. She's a raging commie who, while shutting down all health care in our state said that abortions had to continue because they're "life sustaining". She rules by executive order. The woman needs to be in prison and he wants to work with her.

Some of y'all should just admit that you're not libertarians, just run-of-the-mill Republicans. Libertarians are -not- a subset of the GOP, even though many held their noses and worked through the GOP as part of Dr. Paul's campaigns. We experienced how the GOP "welcomed" us by beating up elderly members, stealing vote ballots, shutting down state conventions when we were winning, driving around buses full of delegates for hours so they couldn't participate in the RNC, etc. Being so obsessed with bashing progressives, instead of trying to find common ground and offering positions that may appeal to them, just means you watch too much Fox News, read too much Breitbart and should just admit to being generic Republicans instead of libertarians.

The only signs referencing Nazis were calling the governor of Michigan one. And, here's the deal on the FAKE news about a Nazi flag:

Your point? No one said anything about who the nazi symbols were directed toward or used for, just that they were present and unnecessary.

That's the problem. You're making Populism the standard, when it shouldn't be. Populism is the reason why we continue to move further away from any real progress towards small government, sound money, etc. Populism is just sociopolitical relativism, and it always moves with the waves of arbitrary, public opinion.

We need candidates who are principled and unafraid to stand on principle, in order for their platforms to remain consistent and objective. When that happens, then it will expose the problems rooted in our society, from the corrupt media organizations to the ignorant populace who continually vote for the very candidates that have destroyed our nation because of the subjectivity of arbitrary laws.

Hence why I said I'm somewhat a purist but I'm not naive enough to think that anything will suddenly change in how national campaigns are ran and which campaigns can actually win. After 12 years of watching good, principled candidates lose while the populist liars win, at what point do we accept that maybe winning requires our own version of 5D chess? Amash does have the luxury of being able to run a moderate national campaign even before officially winning the LP nomination, which the D/R's can't do. They have to be hard right or left for primaries then head to moderate middle during the general since it's the moderate middle that actually decides elections.